Millipede Escape Artists

[Slappy]

Hi folks, I got some millipedes on Friday.
I made them up a 5gallon terrarium with homemade substrate (organic garden soil, sphagnum moss, hardwood pellets, dried oak leaves). The substrate fills up 1/4-1/2 of the 5gal (so far, looking to make some more), as a video suggested a hill to provide different levels of humidity for them to choose from. Cork bark on order for aesthetics and munchies, and I might add some cholla wood that I use for aquariums

The two species that had been shipped to me were pretty dormant for a couple days, however today I found one of them out and about… in the entry way of my home…
Put it back, no problem, probably just a fluke…
WRONG.
Tonight I have found 4 or 5 more scurrying around.

the terrarium has a glass lid, but it doesn’t cover the top completely, which I thought would be a good thing for air/circulation.

I’m assuming these buggers have been climbing up the silicone on the corners and popping out.
the larger species ( 6 ivory) are pretty stationary, as they are large and heavy… but the bumblebees and scarlets have been going walkabout.
I just put Vaseline along the inside-top, and a ways down the corners.
do you think this will be sufficient in preventing escapes? Or will I have to come up with something more?
I really don’t want to use a plastic bin, since they don’t yield much for display. I have small-insect screen that I use for my cockroach bins, breeder nets, etc, however I don’t think I’ll have much time for DIY project til the weekend.
Any advice?

also, is fungus growth okay in the millipede bin? It’s the white hairy kind that looks like spider webbing. Is the substrate too damp?


Fungus/mold: I’m pretty sure it’s fine since the substrate is basically decomposing galore, but want to make sure it’s not a humidity issue and causing the millipedes to mass exodus.

 

[egyptiancrow]

the vaseline should indeed work.
but i would endevour to use a better lid in the future and not use it longterm

the white hair mold should be fine, my isopods and springtails eat it, some millies do too, not sure about your species.

you could add springtails to the enclosure to help mold but they should be okay. as you said, its decomposing galore. you can cover the mold in dirt and stamp it out and it should help reduce it as well.

 

[Slappy]

the vaseline should indeed work.
but i would endevour to use a better lid in the future and not use it longterm

the white hair mold should be fine, my isopods and springtails eat it, some millies do too, not sure about your species.

you could add springtails to the enclosure to help mold but they should be okay. as you said, its decomposing galore. you can cover the mold in dirt and stamp it out and it should help reduce it as well.

Okay sweet!
Vaseline saves the day once again, Huzzah!
Just a temporary fix, I’ll try and work some magic with the small-insect-screen blocking off the 1.5” (ish) gap the glass lid doesn’t cover along the length of the back.

I’ll keep my eye out for any more Millie’s running amuck. So far the score is 3x scarlet, 2x bumblebee, 1x random darkling beetle (I feed my fish live mealworms and sometimes they get out or I overshoot tossing them in lol), and 1x darkling pupa. I tossed the darkling in the 5gal (I keep some with the roaches).

The Millie’s that were shipped had some cooties in the substrate, terrestrial amphipods, isopods, ants, fast/slender earwig but not earwig thingies, small cone snails. I just tossed everything in.

I was supposed to get some Orange/blue isopods, however the status still says it’s not shipped, the seller messaged me back that it was shipped, but dodged the tracking # question.
Can’t win ‘em all.
The local source I got the ivory millipedes from has some dairy cows, so I’ll probably just get those for now.
I’ve also been snooping around for springtails, but haven’t purchased any yet.
If anyone knows of a good source lmk.

 

[egyptiancrow]

Okay sweet!
Vaseline saves the day once again, Huzzah!
Just a temporary fix, I’ll try and work some magic with the small-insect-screen blocking off the 1.5” (ish) gap the glass lid doesn’t cover along the length of the back.

I’ll keep my eye out for any more Millie’s running amuck. So far the score is 3x scarlet, 2x bumblebee, 1x random darkling beetle (I feed my fish live mealworms and sometimes they get out or I overshoot tossing them in lol), and 1x darkling pupa. I tossed the darkling in the 5gal (I keep some with the roaches).

The Millie’s that were shipped had some cooties in the substrate, terrestrial amphipods, isopods, ants, fast/slender earwig but not earwig thingies, small cone snails. I just tossed everything in.

I was supposed to get some Orange/blue isopods, however the status still says it’s not shipped, the seller messaged me back that it was shipped, but dodged the tracking # question.
Can’t win ‘em all.
The local source I got the ivory millipedes from has some dairy cows, so I’ll probably just get those for now.
I’ve also been snooping around for springtails, but haven’t purchased any yet.
If anyone knows of a good source lmk.

i can recommend NEHERPs cultures and isopods, if you need em. i sort of advise against using isopods as cuc in with millies. you should stick to springtails tbh.

 

[Slappy]

i can recommend NEHERPs cultures and isopods, if you need em. i sort of advise against using isopods as cuc in with millies. you should stick to springtails tbh.

Thanks
Why are isopods not advisable with millies?
There are already some isopods in there, since they came with the scarlet/ bumblebee's substrate.
I wanted all the cooties from their culture to seed the new “ecosystem”… bacteria, mold, macro and micro organisms, frass for the baby millipedes.

Can shadow roaches be kept with millipedes?
I have some in my blatticomposting bin, but they are definitely outcompeted by the Eublaberus species. They stay small, and would appreciate the substrate.

The darkling beetle is actually pretty interesting to watch. I put the pupa in a shot glass, and might add a friend to the 5gal.

 

[egyptiancrow]

Thanks
Why are isopods not advisable with millies?
There are already some isopods in there, since they came with the scarlet/ bumblebee's substrate.
I wanted all the cooties from their culture to seed the new “ecosystem”… bacteria, mold, macro and micro organisms, frass for the baby millipedes.

Can shadow roaches be kept with millipedes?
I have some in my blatticomposting bin, but they are definitely outcompeted by the Eublaberus species. They stay small, and would appreciate the substrate.

The darkling beetle is actually pretty interesting to watch. I put the pupa in a shot glass, and might add a friend to the 5gal.

few reasons
1) unlike millipedes, isopods are fast and highly active a large amount of the time, they can easily run around and eat up food sources and push them away from hides by constantly brushing against them. a few might be alright, but adding an actual cuc and thus probably a dozen adults in will really start to bug them

2) they can and will take pieces of flesh off, especially during a molt. you might see you have 1 less millipede sometime. depends a bit on species. ive even seen them eat a different sp of isopod, not molting, alive. pieces of leg and antenna slowly going. adding protein like fish flakes or freeze dried mealworms or something can help but its just.. not great, is it?
*editing to say they will also eat any millipede eggs, too

3) if you add a lot of adults theyll likely have a lot of babies, eventually they might outcompete the millies completely and theyll all be unable to covet space, food, and wont multiply fast enough to replace their population either

personally #2 is my biggest concern. ive housed millies and isopods together before, but only small ones. those did okay as they didnt need much food and space and the type i housed them with is not particularly bloodthirsty. eventually though they disapeared. dunno if they died of old age or were eaten... like you they were just in the soil so i left them. at some point in my mixed cultures, only one creature stands. there is never a time ive had a mixed bin that stayed mixed with isopods. its always one sp. springtails ive never seen disappear, and they coexist perfectly with isopods.

the short of it is, sure you can try it, and maybe itll go ok for a while. but the chance of the millies "disapearing" increases all the time. if you want the keep those millies alive and healthy as much as possible, their best chances are *not* with isopods. if you dont mind if some of them die, then it doesnt matter at all. but usually thats not what people want

i dont know anything about roaches, i cant advise you on that, but generally, a fast and active sp + a slow and harmless sp = death for the slower one. i treasure my big millies and i would never put anything with them tbh. ive seen what isopods do. youll even see with reptiles some sp will bite the reptile and eat their skin or flesh to the point they need to be removed. it just depends. lots of sp do great in bioactive setup with the right "main" animal, but millies are just such gentle giants...

 

[mickiem]

Be careful about them getting out. I don't know what your humidity is, but a millipede loose in my house wouldn't live long as my humidity is pretty low (20%). Is the glass lid in one piece or two? I siliconed screen between 2 pieces of glass and that worked well. That said, 5 gallons seems a bit small for 6 ivories+ scarlets and bbb's. Best of luck to you!

 

[Slappy]

few reasons
1) unlike millipedes, isopods are fast and highly active a large amount of the time, they can easily run around and eat up food sources and push them away from hides by constantly brushing against them. a few might be alright, but adding an actual cuc and thus probably a dozen adults in will really start to bug them

2) they can and will take pieces of flesh off, especially during a molt. you might see you have 1 less millipede sometime. depends a bit on species. ive even seen them eat a different sp of isopod, not molting, alive. pieces of leg and antenna slowly going. adding protein like fish flakes or freeze dried mealworms or something can help but its just.. not great, is it?
*editing to say they will also eat any millipede eggs, too

3) if you add a lot of adults theyll likely have a lot of babies, eventually they might outcompete the millies completely and theyll all be unable to covet space, food, and wont multiply fast enough to replace their population either

personally #2 is my biggest concern. ive housed millies and isopods together before, but only small ones. those did okay as they didnt need much food and space and the type i housed them with is not particularly bloodthirsty. eventually though they disapeared. dunno if they died of old age or were eaten... like you they were just in the soil so i left them. at some point in my mixed cultures, only one creature stands. there is never a time ive had a mixed bin that stayed mixed with isopods. its always one sp. springtails ive never seen disappear, and they coexist perfectly with isopods.

the short of it is, sure you can try it, and maybe itll go ok for a while. but the chance of the millies "disapearing" increases all the time. if you want the keep those millies alive and healthy as much as possible, their best chances are *not* with isopods. if you dont mind if some of them die, then it doesnt matter at all. but usually thats not what people want

i dont know anything about roaches, i cant advise you on that, but generally, a fast and active sp + a slow and harmless sp = death for the slower one. i treasure my big millies and i would never put anything with them tbh. ive seen what isopods do. youll even see with reptiles some sp will bite the reptile and eat their skin or flesh to the point they need to be removed. it just depends. lots of sp do great in bioactive setup with the right "main" animal, but millies are just such gentle giants...

Whats the laymen term for cuc? Colony?
I googled it when you mentioned it in your previous post, but most were abbreviations that didn’t fit.

Yikes! Yea that doesn’t sound fun, but it would be interesting to try a few. Hmm… I could set up tupperwares for different isopod species and get them going in those. Then once the Millie’s are stabilized and doing well, I could add a few to the “display tank”?
Then if they get too numerous in there, move some back to the Tupperware and/or feed to my fish (they love culls).

I did add springtails to my composting bin when I first started it out, I’ll have to see if I can find any in there still. It’s been a mixed species bin for about 1.5-2 years now. It was a Covid thing.. not a lot to do during quarantine but play with fish and bugs…
There are still isopods, larger roaches, smaller roaches- but in fewer numbers (initial numbers were smaller though too), couple beetle species, mites, minute pirate bugs, I guess a small ant colony.
I want to separate some of the roach species out of the composting bin and have it be predominantly the Eublaberus species (they are the Cadillac of composting, large, hardy).

Be careful about them getting out. I don't know what your humidity is, but a millipede loose in my house wouldn't live long as my humidity is pretty low (20%). Is the glass lid in one piece or two? I siliconed screen between 2 pieces of glass and that worked well. That said, 5 gallons seems a bit small for 6 ivories+ scarlets and bbb's. Best of luck to you!

Yes, sadly I found my first casualty (and one more that was alive) today. The goal wasn’t them escaping, and I read they can’t climb glass (usually only up to a couple inches above the substrate where it’s clinged to the surface), but the silicone corners were overlooked.

The glass top is 2 pieces, versa top from an aquarium I recently bought. That’s a genius idea!
I can set up more enclosures down the line. I was considering setting up the 12” x 12” x 12” glass tank, but went with the 5gal. I can also see if 10gals fit in my bookshelf cubbies, if they do, I’m all over Petco 50% off sale… last time I bought ten 10gals >.>
if not, I can prowls CL for more 5gals.
I have enough substrate materials (besides leaves) for many enclosures. I will ask my landscaper if they have any clients with chemical-free hardwood trees they clean up leaves from.

 

[egyptiancrow]

fb groups are a great way to get cheap tanks too, i reccomend checking around your area.

also cuc stands for cleanup crew, the term for whoever does most of the dirty work in a bioactive. both isopods and springtails are considered cuc and sometimes roaches are too.

 

[Farouche]

As a temporary fix maybe you can use (food) plastic film to cover the area on the top that has gaps? You could still poke small holes in there for air while having that further enough from the corners that the millies wouldn't pass through. It could work until you can install a mesh or something more durable.

 

[mickiem]

Whats the laymen term for cuc? Colony?
I googled it when you mentioned it in your previous post, but most were abbreviations that didn’t fit.

Yikes! Yea that doesn’t sound fun, but it would be interesting to try a few. Hmm… I could set up tupperwares for different isopod species and get them going in those. Then once the Millie’s are stabilized and doing well, I could add a few to the “display tank”?
Then if they get too numerous in there, move some back to the Tupperware and/or feed to my fish (they love culls).

I did add springtails to my composting bin when I first started it out, I’ll have to see if I can find any in there still. It’s been a mixed species bin for about 1.5-2 years now. It was a Covid thing.. not a lot to do during quarantine but play with fish and bugs…
There are still isopods, larger roaches, smaller roaches- but in fewer numbers (initial numbers were smaller though too), couple beetle species, mites, minute pirate bugs, I guess a small ant colony.
I want to separate some of the roach species out of the composting bin and have it be predominantly the Eublaberus species (they are the Cadillac of composting, large, hardy).



Yes, sadly I found my first casualty (and one more that was alive) today. The goal wasn’t them escaping, and I read they can’t climb glass (usually only up to a couple inches above the substrate where it’s clinged to the surface), but the silicone corners were overlooked.

The glass top is 2 pieces, versa top from an aquarium I recently bought. That’s a genius idea!
I can set up more enclosures down the line. I was considering setting up the 12” x 12” x 12” glass tank, but went with the 5gal. I can also see if 10gals fit in my bookshelf cubbies, if they do, I’m all over Petco 50% off sale… last time I bought ten 10gals >.>
if not, I can prowls CL for more 5gals.
I have enough substrate materials (besides leaves) for many enclosures. I will ask my landscaper if they have any clients with chemical-free hardwood trees they clean up leaves from.

After I put the screen between the glass, I glue strips of anything rigid along the short sides so the glass doesn't "walk" toward the middle leaving gaps. Hope that makes sense! Silicone or debris on the glass are both avenues to stroll for these guys! Sounds like you are doing great and are going to have lots of happy millipedes.