Millipede behaving strangely

[mikeandaimie]

My daughter bought a millipede this week and we set up a habitat for it with coconut husk, moss, hardwood leaves, bark hides and some faux plants it could use as hides. We have fed it small pieces of apple without peel, spinach leaves, and green pepper bits. We have also lightly misted the habitat every day. It behaved normally (from what I could tell) for a week but is now partially curled up on its side with all of its legs in motion. Can anyone advise me on what is going on or what we could possibly have done wrong?

 

[ThemantismanofPA]

So I have no experience with millipedes, but have you done research on them molting? This seems like some form of molting behavior.

 

[mikeandaimie]

Thabk you for helping. I thought that might be the case but also have no experience with millipedes. In reading there are a lot of different accounts of molting behavior and I wanted to check with some people who know more than I do. My daughter is SO worried. A millipede is her dream pet.

 

[Arthroverts]

It might be molting, or there is a chance it could be suffering from some sort of ailment. What species is it?

Is your substrate composed mostly of coco fiber and rotting leaves?

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[T Castaneus]

I've seen my millipede do this once. I took her outside to the yard on my hand and at one point she starts writhing around and moving her legs around. It was weird and had me worried for a sec. That happened months ago though and she's fine. Not sure if it's the same thing.

 

[mikeandaimie]

I don't know what species it is specifically as the pet store didn't indicate one. Here's a picture.

Yes, the substrate is mostly cocofiber/leaves with a layer of moss on top. Could be that it needs to be deeper, though.

 

[mickiem]

It looks like an Orthoporus milliped. You definitely need deeper substrate and the coco fiber should be a very small part of the substrate. I kept mine in substrate with a higher percentage of sand and they did pretty well. It is a beautiful set up!

 

[mickiem]

The description of the milliped laying on it's side doesn't sound good. That type milliped does not have to be kept as humid as other types, but does need some humidity. How is it doing now? Don't be discouraged if you lose it - just keep learning. They are really easy pets to keep and it is wonderful that your daughter is interested!

 

[MillipedeTrain]

I don't know what species it is specifically as the pet store didn't indicate one. Here's a picture.

Yes, the substrate is mostly cocofiber/leaves with a layer of moss on top. Could be that it needs to be deeper, though.

You have way too much cocofibre in the substrate. Cocofibre/cocohusk in my opinion and many others a terrible carrier substrate for millipedes. It offers NO nutrition what-so-ever. It also must be constantly kept damp because as it dries, cocofibre pulls moisture out of millipedes causing dehydration and even death if you’re not careful. It can also cause impaction in millipedes and I have personally experienced this and had deaths with my own millipedes. If you want to use cocofibre it needs to be an extremely small part of the substrate. You need a nutritionally diverse substrate as the substrate is one of the most important aspects in keeping millipedes as they eat the substrate, breed in the substrate and molt in the substrate.

A healthy substrate should consist of copious amounts decayed leaves and hardwood that comes from trees like Alder, maple, oak, birch, beech, cottonwood the kind of decayed wood that crumbles into mush in your fingers. You can collect this from your local forest and look for wild millipedes and isopods thriving in the wood and that is a good indication that it is safe. Pick out all the wild millipedes and Isopods and let them go. Find yourself a bunch of different types of mosses that have never been exposed to pesticides or chemicals so you can take them home, rinse them and boil them for half an hour on medium/high heat. As for all the wood you collected you take the wood home, put it on a metal tray with tinfoil covering the tray and break up the wood into smaller pieces so it bakes dry faster and then bake it until it is fully dry. The amount of time it takes always varies so that is why you must have a spray bottle handy just incase and sit by the oven to keep an eye on it and stir and turn the wood chunks every so often. Once it is thoroughly baked I mulch it all with my hands into what I like to call “wood dirt” but I still leave some bigger chunks for the millipedes too. Then I get my carrier soils. I use organic black earth which contains Peat Loam (which is the sediment of decayed organic matter that is harvested from below peat moss bogs, therefore it is more nutritional than peat moss alone) my soil also contains humus which is literally am incorrectly named label applied to aged compost. For whatever reason, they call aged organic compost as humus. It is great for millipedes. Not only that I use another soil called Organic golf green which contains peat moss, more humus and compost. You must NEVER use any soil that contains fertilizers, pesticides or herbicides or any added chemicals or fertilizers for plants to grow as these will kill your millipedes. Use organic ONLY!
So I mix ample amounts of each soil into my bins, then I add an almost equal amount of my mulched baked decayed wood and crumbled leaves and boiled moss and lichen and mix them into extra part of my substrate so that every inch of substrate contains bits of each ingredients. After I am done mixing I add extra mulched decayed wood and leaves onto the top and I add about an inch or two inch thick layer of decayed leaves onto the top because they act as a barrier and prevent the soil from drying out too quickly and give the millipedes a place to feel safe and secure in.

This is how I make my substrate and everyone is welcome to use my method if they like and I am not saying anyone had to use it I am simply offering this information on how to create a nutritionally diverse substrate as it has never done me wrong and the millipedes have been breeding and happily thriving. It takes a lot of work to make but the substrate will last a long time and you continually add extra decayed wood and leaves to the top. However when the soil all begins to look like black little pellet poops all the way through to the very bottom every handful you pick up that means you are in dire need of a substrate change and it is absolutely important that you do a full substrate change as when there is nothing but poops throughout the entire substrate and no more wood and leaves epidemics can break out and cause harm to your millipedes. It is well worth to spend the time needed to create a nutritionally diverse substrate for happy, healthy ‘Pedes. If you or anyone else has any further questions please don’t hesitate to ask me.

Pictures are of my very lovely, beautiful Spirostreptus Sp.8 which currently have babies and are mating like crazy and breeding more and should be laying more eggs and if they haven’t laid already they will definitely be laying VERY soon. They LOVE this substrate.

 

[Nephaleim]

You have way too much cocofibre in the substrate. Cocofibre/cocohusk in my opinion and many others a terrible carrier substrate for millipedes. It offers NO nutrition what-so-ever. It also must be constantly kept damp because as it dries, cocofibre pulls moisture out of millipedes causing dehydration and even death if you’re not careful. It can also cause impaction in millipedes and I have personally experienced this and had deaths with my own millipedes. If you want to use cocofibre it needs to be an extremely small part of the substrate. You need a nutritionally diverse substrate as the substrate is one of the most important aspects in keeping millipedes as they eat the substrate, breed in the substrate and molt in the substrate.

A healthy substrate should consist of copious amounts decayed leaves and hardwood that comes from trees like Alder, maple, oak, birch, beech, cottonwood the kind of decayed wood that crumbles into mush in your fingers. You can collect this from your local forest and look for wild millipedes and isopods thriving in the wood and that is a good indication that it is safe. Pick out all the wild millipedes and Isopods and let them go. Find yourself a bunch of different types of mosses that have never been exposed to pesticides or chemicals so you can take them home, rinse them and boil them for half an hour on medium/high heat. As for all the wood you collected you take the wood home, put it on a metal tray with tinfoil covering the tray and break up the wood into smaller pieces so it bakes dry faster and then bake it until it is fully dry. The amount of time it takes always varies so that is why you must have a spray bottle handy just incase and sit by the oven to keep an eye on it and stir and turn the wood chunks every so often. Once it is thoroughly baked I mulch it all with my hands into what I like to call “wood dirt” but I still leave some bigger chunks for the millipedes too. Then I get my carrier soils. I use organic black earth which contains Peat Loam (which is the sediment of decayed organic matter that is harvested from below peat moss bogs, therefore it is more nutritional than peat moss alone) my soil also contains humus which is literally am incorrectly named label applied to aged compost. For whatever reason, they call aged organic compost as humus. It is great for millipedes. Not only that I use another soil called Organic golf green which contains peat moss, more humus and compost. You must NEVER use any soil that contains fertilizers, pesticides or herbicides or any added chemicals or fertilizers for plants to grow as these will kill your millipedes. Use organic ONLY!
So I mix ample amounts of each soil into my bins, then I add an almost equal amount of my mulched baked decayed wood and crumbled leaves and boiled moss and lichen and mix them into extra part of my substrate so that every inch of substrate contains bits of each ingredients. After I am done mixing I add extra mulched decayed wood and leaves onto the top and I add about an inch or two inch thick layer of decayed leaves onto the top because they act as a barrier and prevent the soil from drying out too quickly and give the millipedes a place to feel safe and secure in.

This is how I make my substrate and everyone is welcome to use my method if they like and I am not saying anyone had to use it I am simply offering this information on how to create a nutritionally diverse substrate as it has never done me wrong and the millipedes have been breeding and happily thriving. It takes a lot of work to make but the substrate will last a long time and you continually add extra decayed wood and leaves to the top. However when the soil all begins to look like black little pellet poops all the way through to the very bottom every handful you pick up that means you are in dire need of a substrate change and it is absolutely important that you do a full substrate change as when there is nothing but poops throughout the entire substrate and no more wood and leaves epidemics can break out and cause harm to your millipedes. It is well worth to spend the time needed to create a nutritionally diverse substrate for happy, healthy ‘Pedes. If you or anyone else has any further questions please don’t hesitate to ask me.

Pictures are of my very lovely, beautiful Spirostreptus Sp.8 which currently have babies and are mating like crazy and breeding more and should be laying more eggs and if they haven’t laid already they will definitely be laying VERY soon. They LOVE this substrate. View attachment 363612

You have tought me so much. Thank you! I feel like you saved my pedes! One of my pedes is currently very sick, i assume it's impaction. I used a lot of coconut soil, and i think i won't use it anymore.
Your tips are amazing and it's all i ever wanted to hear. Bless you.

 

[MillipedeTrain]

You have tought me so much. Thank you! I feel like you saved my pedes! One of my pedes is currently very sick, i assume it's impaction. I used a lot of coconut soil, and i think i won't use it anymore.
Your tips are amazing and it's all i ever wanted to hear. Bless you.

Oh dear, I am very sorry to hear that. Please remove all substrate you have containing coconut fibre. The reason that coconut fibre is so bad is because it is not decayed and therefore while the millipedes can eat it, they simply cannot digest it. It’s basically as if the millipedes were swallowing sand. Unfortunately there are several bad YouTube videos out there and poorly written care sheets that were made by people who have kept reptiles but know nothing about millipedes out there thay are circulating around teaching people how to kill millipedes everywhere. There was also a German scientist who dissected millipedes that died from being kept on coconut fibre and he discovered that the poor millipedes died an extremely painful death of impaction. If your millipede is impacted it is unlikely it will recover but if put on a proper digestible substrate there is a possibility it may recover. In the very least, you may prevent your other millipedes from suffering from this outcome. If you have any other questions feel free to ask. ^^

 

[MillipedeTrain]

You have tought me so much. Thank you! I feel like you saved my pedes! One of my pedes is currently very sick, i assume it's impaction. I used a lot of coconut soil, and i think i won't use it anymore.
Your tips are amazing and it's all i ever wanted to hear. Bless you.

I hope your millipedes will be okay once you remove everything and good luck!

 

[Nephaleim]

Oh dear, I am very sorry to hear that. Please remove all substrate you have containing coconut fibre. The reason that coconut fibre is so bad is because it is not decayed and therefore while the millipedes can eat it, they simply cannot digest it. It’s basically as if the millipedes were swallowing sand. Unfortunately there are several bad YouTube videos out there and poorly written care sheets that were made by people who have kept reptiles but know nothing about millipedes out there thay are circulating around teaching people how to kill millipedes everywhere. There was also a German scientist who dissected millipedes that died from being kept on coconut fibre and he discovered that the poor millipedes died an extremely painful death of impaction. If your millipede is impacted it is unlikely it will recover but if put on a proper digestible substrate there is a possibility it may recover. In the very least, you may prevent your other millipedes from suffering from this outcome. If you have any other questions feel free to ask. ^^

XD I do. I had two males and a female, the female is sick right now.
One male is adult and the other is still not adult (I'm not sure if you can tell if its a male since it's not adult yet).

My male has had a weird black growth on his gonopods ever since he molted about a year ago. He was alive and well ever since, but I'm not sure how it could affect his fertility. Take a look:

Oh dear, I am very sorry to hear that. Please remove all substrate you have containing coconut fibre. The reason that coconut fibre is so bad is because it is not decayed and therefore while the millipedes can eat it, they simply cannot digest it. It’s basically as if the millipedes were swallowing sand. Unfortunately there are several bad YouTube videos out there and poorly written care sheets that were made by people who have kept reptiles but know nothing about millipedes out there thay are circulating around teaching people how to kill millipedes everywhere. There was also a German scientist who dissected millipedes that died from being kept on coconut fibre and he discovered that the poor millipedes died an extremely painful death of impaction. If your millipede is impacted it is unlikely it will recover but if put on a proper digestible substrate there is a possibility it may recover. In the very least, you may prevent your other millipedes from suffering from this outcome. If you have any other questions feel free to ask. ^^

XD I do. I had two males and a female, the female is sick right now.

One male is adult and the other is still not adult (I'm not sure if you can tell if its a male since it's not adult yet).



My male has had a weird black growth on his gonopods ever since he molted about a year ago. He was alive and well ever since, but I'm not sure how it could affect his fertility. Take a look:

He doesn't seem injured. It's been like that ever since he molted.

I know these guys are supposed to be black in color, but this male ks starting to turn brown-ish. Any ideas why?
Notice how the first two are black and shiny, and the one on my fingers is dull and lighter in color.

 

[MillipedeTrain]

XD I do. I had two males and a female, the female is sick right now.
One male is adult and the other is still not adult (I'm not sure if you can tell if its a male since it's not adult yet).

My male has had a weird black growth on his gonopods ever since he molted about a year ago. He was alive and well ever since, but I'm not sure how it could affect his fertility. Take a look:

XD I do. I had two males and a female, the female is sick right now.

One male is adult and the other is still not adult (I'm not sure if you can tell if its a male since it's not adult yet).



My male has had a weird black growth on his gonopods ever since he molted about a year ago. He was alive and well ever since, but I'm not sure how it could affect his fertility. Take a look:
View attachment 429993
He doesn't seem injured. It's been like that ever since he molted.

I know these guys are supposed to be black in color, but this male ks starting to turn brown-ish. Any ideas why? View attachment 429994
Notice how the first two are black and shiny, and the one on my fingers is dull and lighter in color.

Hello there.
Millipedes do not need to be fully grown for them to be sexed. You can tell their sex even as juveniles as long as you know what to look for. The males will have an extra wide leg gap on the underside of their body, seven segments from the head. The females do not have a leg gap. The male you’re showing is indeed a male. The black bits you’re showing on his gonopods could be one of two things, it could just be dirt that naturally gets stuck there at the opening of the gonopods as I have witnessed this happening with many males. OR it could be foot rot which is a bacteria that thrives in warm and overly wet conditions and can actually eat the millipede’s feet turning them into little black stumps. Please check your millipede’s feet to see if they have numerous black stumps instead of healthy full legs. If their legs are healthy, then it is just simply dirt.

Now to address your final question. As for the brownish coloration, this completely normal. A freshly molted millipede will often be brighter and lighter in color than a millipede whom has not molted for a long time. The longer a millipede has gone without molting, often the darker their exoskeleton will appear to the fresher molted millipedes. Even without this, some variation in color/shades’s of the millipe’s exoskeletons are normal. From what I can tell so far from the top view, your milllipede’s exoskeletons look totally normal to me.
I also do not appear to see any signs of the foot rot bacteria, but I can only see so much of their feet

Also, is that an old picture? Substrate looks brown as though they are still on cocofibre. Or is it flake soil? What do you have them on now?

 

[Nephaleim]

Hello there.
Millipedes do not need to be fully grown for them to be sexed. You can tell their sex even as juveniles as long as you know what to look for. The males will have an extra wide leg gap on the underside of their body, seven segments from the head. The females do not have a leg gap. The male you’re showing is indeed a male. The black bits you’re showing on his gonopods could be one of two things, it could just be dirt that naturally gets stuck there at the opening of the gonopods as I have witnessed this happening with many males. OR it could be foot rot which is a bacteria that thrives in warm and overly wet conditions and can actually eat the millipede’s feet turning them into little black stumps. Please check your millipede’s feet to see if they have numerous black stumps instead of healthy full legs. If their legs are healthy, then it is just simply dirt.

Now to address your final question. As for the brownish coloration, this completely normal. A freshly molted millipede will often be brighter and lighter in color than a millipede whom has not molted for a long time. The longer a millipede has gone without molting, often the darker their exoskeleton will appear to the fresher molted millipedes. Even without this, some variation in color/shades’s of the millipe’s exoskeletons are normal. From what I can tell so far from the top view, your milllipede’s exoskeletons look totally normal to me.
I also do not appear to see any signs of the foot rot bacteria, but I can only see so much of their feet

Also, is that an old picture? Substrate looks brown as though they are still on cocofibre. Or is it flake soil? What do you have them on now?

Hello! Thank you for getting back to me!

I'll provide you more pictures when I'm able to.

The photo you saw were all taken before the substrate change. The soil I had was mainly Coco fiber, with a little bit of earth soil I took from outside, mixed with some gravel, sphagnum moss and rotting wood.

I don't think the black bit is dirt like you suggested. I noticed it after he molted over a year ago, and I panicked he had gotten hurt. I haven't tried to remove it, and i likely won't as he seems to be doing alright.

I thought duller exoskeleton signalled a lack in mineral or other type of deficiency or illness, but I'm relieved you think it's nothing.

I didn't notice any black stumps on their legs. They seemed normal to me but I'll have to check again.

Thank you for your reply, I'll update you soon!

 

[MillipedeTrain]

Hello! Thank you for getting back to me!

I'll provide you more pictures when I'm able to.

The photo you saw were all taken before the substrate change. The soil I had was mainly Coco fiber, with a little bit of earth soil I took from outside, mixed with some gravel, sphagnum moss and rotting wood.

I don't think the black bit is dirt like you suggested. I noticed it after he molted over a year ago, and I panicked he had gotten hurt. I haven't tried to remove it, and i likely won't as he seems to be doing alright.

I thought duller exoskeleton signalled a lack in mineral or other type of deficiency or illness, but I'm relieved you think it's nothing.

I didn't notice any black stumps on their legs. They seemed normal to me but I'll have to check again.

Thank you for your reply, I'll update you soon!

Thankfully no; not a mineral deficiency. Just normal millipede variations.

Alright, in that case, the other thing it could be is a slight deformity/damage of the exoskeleton that can sometimes happen during molting. I have encountered several of my millipedes to have black cracks where their exoskeleton was damaged when they were molting and they did not have any foot rot. Foot rot can also affect injured parts of the exoskeleton it doesn’t have to necessarily be attacking the feet. However… If it has not had any changes/gotten worse in appearance over the year and spread to other parts of the exoskeleton and the millipede is not acting weaker/limpish then I am leaning more towards the fact that your millipede simply just had a bit of a deformity of the exoskeleton during molting and is likely going to be fine. Just make sure your soil does not get overly wet to the point it is sopping wet where you can squeeze water out of it when you grab a handful just incase so that any bad bacteria isn’t given the conditions it needs to grow plus millipedes get waterlogged and die from overly wet substrate. I like to have one side be drier and one side be more damp so the millipedes can choose where they want to be.

What are you keeping them on now for substrate?

 

[Nephaleim]

Thankfully no; not a mineral deficiency. Just normal millipede variations.

Alright, in that case, the other thing it could be is a slight deformity/damage of the exoskeleton that can sometimes happen during molting. I have encountered several of my millipedes to have black cracks where their exoskeleton was damaged when they were molting and they did not have any foot rot. Foot rot can also affect injured parts of the exoskeleton it doesn’t have to necessarily be attacking the feet. However… If it has not had any changes/gotten worse in appearance over the year and spread to other parts of the exoskeleton and the millipede is not acting weaker/limpish then I am leaning more towards the fact that your millipede simply just had a bit of a deformity of the exoskeleton during molting and is likely going to be fine. Just make sure your soil does not get overly wet to the point it is sopping wet where you can squeeze water out of it when you grab a handful just incase so that any bad bacteria isn’t given the conditions it needs to grow plus millipedes get waterlogged and die from overly wet substrate. I like to have one side be drier and one side be more damp so the millipedes can choose where they want to be.

What are you keeping them on now for substrate?

I have taken compost from my garden (I have a composter but I was hesitant to use it because there can be a lot of unwanted critters there. But i have decided to sun dry the compost to allow little critters like centipedes and isopods to run away.
I ended up taking out most of the critters, i tried to get as many out that i could, then i baked the soil to sterilize it. I went to a forest and got some mulch/leaves/wood which i also baked and dropped on top of the compost.
I have a piece of bark in there that the pedes hide under, on top of which i leave apples, mushrooms etc. I also have a piece of cuttlefish bone in the as well.

 

[Nephaleim]

Thankfully no; not a mineral deficiency. Just normal millipede variations.

Alright, in that case, the other thing it could be is a slight deformity/damage of the exoskeleton that can sometimes happen during molting. I have encountered several of my millipedes to have black cracks where their exoskeleton was damaged when they were molting and they did not have any foot rot. Foot rot can also affect injured parts of the exoskeleton it doesn’t have to necessarily be attacking the feet. However… If it has not had any changes/gotten worse in appearance over the year and spread to other parts of the exoskeleton and the millipede is not acting weaker/limpish then I am leaning more towards the fact that your millipede simply just had a bit of a deformity of the exoskeleton during molting and is likely going to be fine. Just make sure your soil does not get overly wet to the point it is sopping wet where you can squeeze water out of it when you grab a handful just incase so that any bad bacteria isn’t given the conditions it needs to grow plus millipedes get waterlogged and die from overly wet substrate. I like to have one side be drier and one side be more damp so the millipedes can choose where they want to be.

What are you keeping them on now for substrate?

It seems the adult male I had shown you is also impacted. I have noticed fibers sticking out of his butt. I isolated him in a different container to see if he poops, with some rotting leaves/cover, cucumber and fresh water. He is active and acts defensively when disturbed so I'm hopeful he can get better. Currently he isn't on any substrate as it might make it hard to notice excrement.
I managed to pull out some of the fibers when he opened his but to excrete defensive fluids. I was try to pull fibers individually and be very careful. I did it as gently as I could and just lightly tugged on the fibers actually sticking out. There is some clear liquid coming out of his butt now, I'm unsure what that is but i hope i didn't end up hurting him. When he opened his butt to excrete fluids earlier, the fibers kinda came out a little and prevented his butt from closing, which is why i pulled on them.

I'll be keeping a close eye.

Any advice on helping digestion for these guys? Warmth perhaps?