Metabolism of Ts

[Veles]

It means supplying a near constant influx of food to increase growth, while increasing temps to maximize metabolism....but it applies to cold blooded animals, reptiles most specifically, as they have linear growth....ts do not....they grow much much differently.

Every t, regardless of size, has a certain amount of time needed before being physically ready to molt..only warmer temps can decrease this, and there is a point at which too warm past a certain point decreases the effect...as every t has its optimal temp for growth. Its much easier really to lengthen this time with cooler temps than to shorten it significantly with warmer temps.

So, for example... a 2" B. vagans may need 120 days minimum to be physically ready to molt. And that same t may need 20 crickets to be nutritionally plump and ready....when the nutritional needs are met first, it doesnt effect that 120 day period it physically needed, so it just fasts until that 120 days is met and the t can molt.

To maximize growth in ts, one merely needs to plump the t in conjunction with that necessary 120 day period (or whatever that period may be).

One could feed those 20 crickets in a month...its still going to need the next 90 to be physically ready to molt...so it just fasts for the next 3 months....yes, maximizing growth, but....

I could feed those 20 crickets one every 6 days and have it plumped in conjunction with that 120 days, still maximize growth and never deal with a significant fasting period....showing zero advantage to this percieved power feeding schedule.

This is even more dramatic with larger, slow growing species as they may molt once every 2 years or more..., so even needing more food than that 2 incher, its still wont need to be fed but once or twice a month over that time to maximize growth rates.


Now, growing a t faster will shorten a males life, but have little effect on female longevity....why is simple if you understand tarantula growth....

Males have a limited number of molts before maturing...usually 9-11....so get them through those molts quicker, or as fast as possible, means faster maturity, and shorter life.....females on tbe other hand, do not have a limited number of molts, so their maturity may come faster, but because molts arent limited, longevity is barely effected, if at all.

The frequency and availability of food matters quite a bit, to quote a study done by Benjamin N Philip's and Cara Shillington:

Spiders typically exhibit very low resting metabolic rates (RMR) and altered feeding behaviors as mechanisms to survive extended periods of limited food availability. We examined the effect of different periods of food deprivation on RMR and foraging activities in the Hispaniolan giant tarantula (Phormictopus cancerides (Latreille, 1806)) (Araneae: Theraphosidae). Juvenile tarantulas were separated into two feeding groups and fed once either every 5 or 30 days. Monthly feeding trials were preceded by RMR measurements. During feeding trials, we compared differences between the two groups in (i) prey capture frequency, (ii) time to prey capture, (iii) locomotory activity, and (iv) the predator’s prey detection distance. Metabolic rates increased for the well-fed group but remained constant for individuals fed once a month. Time to prey capture decreased for food-limited individuals and the proportion of individuals that ate during each feeding trial was significantly higher in the 30-day group. Conversely, results for locomotory activity and detection distances were inconclusive.

And the one done by H. L. Contreras and T. J. Bradley implies that metabolism can be fastened up via oxygen levels, increased oxygen levels alongside frequent feedings would keep high metabolic rates, high metabolic rate=faster development of an organism=faster molting

The majority of scientific papers on the subject of respiratory patterns in insects have dealt with the discontinuous gas-exchange cycle (DGC). The DGC is characterized by the release of bursts of CO2from the insect, followed by extended periods of spiracular closure. Several hypotheses have been put forward to explain the evolutionary origin and physiological function of this unusual respiratory pattern. We expand upon one of these (the oxidative damage hypothesis) to explain not only the occurrence of the DGC but also the mechanistic basis for the transition to two other well-characterized respiratory patterns: the cyclic pattern and the continuous pattern. We propose that the specific pattern employed by the insect at any given time is a function of the amount of oxygen contained in the insect at the time of spiracular closure and the aerobic metabolic rate of the insect. Examples of each type of pattern are shown using the insect Rhodnius prolixus. In addition, contrary to the expectations deriving from the hygric hypothesis, it is demonstrated that the DGC does not cease in Rhodnius in humid air.

 

[Vanessa]

It has been scientifically proven that oxygen makes inverts grow larger, i do not exactly care what you think is right. Its a proven fact and not something subjective to an opinion, who knows, maybe no one wants to, is capable or willing to experiment with Ts for slight enlargement? The knowledge of "oxygen makes inverts bigger" is also more of a recent thing, certainly nothing from half a century ago.

This hobby has no shortage of wannabe scientists who have no science education and think that their homes are an appropriate makeshift controlled environment to perform pseudo experiments in. You aren't the first and you won't be the last, either.
A quick search of 'oxygen' and 'growth' produce the following threads going all the way back to a Power Feeding thread from 2006. There are probably even more before that, but the search function only goes back so far.

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/l-parahybinia-or-l-klugi-oxygen-chamber.296604/
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/prehistoric-tarantulas.128441/#post-2449504
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/humidity-oxygen-and-growth-rate.232189/#post-2042621
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/more-oxygen.151739/page-5#post-1934488
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/is...-tarantulas-maximum-size.194396/#post-1765766
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/oxygen-chambers-size.139826/#post-1281090
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/interesting-experiment.135517/#post-1243653
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/not-your-average-growth-question.106615/
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/oxygenous-vs-easy-humidity.83405/#post-801539
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/power-feeding.82647/

 

[Veles]

This hobby has no shortage of wannabe scientists who have no science education and think that their homes are an appropriate makeshift controlled environment to perform pseudo experiments in. You aren't the first and you won't be the last, either.
A quick search of 'oxygen' and 'growth' produce the following threads going all the way back to a Power Feeding thread from 2008. There are probably even more before that, but the search function only goes back so far.

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/l-parahybinia-or-l-klugi-oxygen-chamber.296604/
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/prehistoric-tarantulas.128441/#post-2449504
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/humidity-oxygen-and-growth-rate.232189/#post-2042621
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/more-oxygen.151739/page-5#post-1934488
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/is...-tarantulas-maximum-size.194396/#post-1765766
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/oxygen-chambers-size.139826/#post-1281090
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/interesting-experiment.135517/#post-1243653
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/not-your-average-growth-question.106615/
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/oxygenous-vs-easy-humidity.83405/#post-801539
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/power-feeding.82647/

Because those people must have had enough funds and money to buy oxygen chambers and go through with the idea/s
That said, each of my claims has been backed up by a piece of scientific evidence, your statement about me "not understanding science" goes full circle back at you, given that you are the one not backing up her claims.

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

Imo, we cant say it wont affect ALL females, since there're a few species that live a decade or less, I think for these guys it will affect lifespan, indeed.
Heres what happened to me:
Bought 3 slings of H. gabonensis once, fed them equally 2x a week a til they lose that sling appearance.
After that, I put the 3 of them together and kept feeding all 3 of them 1x a week.
In 11 months right after I bought them, 2 males matured, the other one was a female, they copulated, males died a month later, female dropped a sac I pulled it out after 20 days and 15 days later, nymphs were born. All of these happened in 11 months. I wasnt familiar with the species at the time so, if I ever have them again, I'll controlled it better.

I wont say anything about sizes cause I've seen lots of weird stuff on "powerfeeding" vs. "final" size.

 

[cold blood]

Because those people must have had enough funds and money to buy oxygen chambers and go through with the idea/s
That said, each of my claims has been backed up by a piece of scientific evidence, your statement about me "not understanding science" goes full circle back at you, given that you are the one not backing up her claims.

You are not being realistic...no one, and I mean NO ONE is building oxygen chambers to raise ts....its doesn't happen naturally or artificially, therefore its completely irrelevant.

Its like saying they grow faster in outer space...maybe, but how does that matter to the hobby or to the wild ts on the planet?

 

[Vanessa]

The frequency and availability of food matters quite a bit, to quote a study done by Benjamin N Philip's and Cara Shillington:

I read the paper and the part that you have quoted is taken out of context to the rest of the paper. Also, this...

Because of the availability of the equipment, metabolic measurements were only completed for Batch 1 throughout the experiment.

I would think that measuring the metabolic rate of both groups would kinda be a key thing if you want to make the claim that one group has a higher metabolic rate than the other.

And the one done by H. L. Contreras and T. J. Bradley implies that metabolism can be fastened up via oxygen levels, increased oxygen levels alongside frequent feedings would keep high metabolic rates, high metabolic rate=faster development of an organism=faster molting

That would depend greatly on the type of respiratory system that they have. Is this based on a passive book lung system that tarantulas have, or the combined book lung/tracheal system that some other spiders have, or the strictly active tracheal system that insects have?
I have included the entire Philips and Shillington paper for anyone else who wants to read it.

 

[Veles]

You are not being realistic...no one, and I mean NO ONE is building oxygen chambers to raise ts....its doesn't happen naturally or artificially, therefore its completely irrelevant.

Its like saying they grow faster in outer space...maybe, but how does that matter to the hobby or to the wild ts on the planet?

You do understand that our planet used to have larger oxygen levels, right? There are rumors of japanese breeders doing this for display and fighting insects, which would be in line with what can be found online (keeping sia ferox specimens that were 30-40 percent larger than what is naturally expected as a maximum size for the species).

I read the paper and the part that you have quoted is taken out of context to the rest of the paper. Also, this...
I would think that measuring the metabolic rate of both groups would kinda be a key thing if you want to make the claim that one group has a higher metabolic rate than the other.

That actually makes little to no difference, it says that the metabolic measurements were not completed, meaning that the measuring was still done to some degree, yielding incomplete but nonetheless viable results. Unless you wish to claim for the entire research to be faux-?

That would depend greatly on the type of respiratory system that they have. Is this based on a passive book lung system that tarantulas have, or the combined book lung/tracheal system that some other spiders have, or the strictly active tracheal system that insects have?
I have included the entire Philips and Shillington paper for anyone else who wants to read it.

Book lungs, as a matter of fact from the same studies we know that the rate of carbon dioxide releasing increases with the rise of metabolic functions.

 

[NukaMedia Exotics]

From what I've read powerfeeding and decreasing the time between molts does generally shorten the life of Ts. I would recommend "powerfeeding" slings and then slowing feedings as juveniles to once a week and adults every other week.

 

[cold blood]

You do understand that our planet used to have larger oxygen levels, right?

And you realize this was millions of years ago and something we cant go back to, right? What happened/conditions millions of years ago is not relevant to today. Our animals do not have these conditions and never will.

 

[docwade87]

And you realize this was millions of years ago and something we cant go back to, right? What happened/conditions millions of years ago is not relevant to today. Our animals do not have these conditions and never will.

Not to mention through evolution animal and people have evolved to the current conditions as they have been for hundreds and hundreds of years. Providing pure oxygen to the average person or animal is actually dangerous. They are even finding that it is overused in the human medicinal area and is causing the release of free radicals in the bodies resulting in more disease, illness and damage. I am fairly certain this all translates to the animal as well.

 

[viper69]

So can I raise my Ts in these oxygen chambers I have. They are super nifty.