Mantis and mouse.... video

[Randolph XX()]

You are SERIOUSLY confusing the issue here.

I don't care if it's a dog, a pig, or a rat. The problem is --->LIVE<--- feeding. Are you saying that Koreans eat dogs ALIVE? Kicking and screaming? That's news to me. Stop trying to turn this into a political thing. Technically humans don't need to eat meat at all, but we're not chasing cows down and tearing into them while they flail for their lives.

And it's also inarguable that a mouse feels and thinks a lot more than a cricket. I believe insects are more concious than science accepts but there is no doubt that a mouse feels levels of panic and fear that few invertebrates are capable of.

now we are talking

and u r confusing my points

did i say those hobbyist i know of feed stray puppies to their animals alive?

by your "additional" point "LIVE", i know Chinese ppl eat monkey brain live
they crack the skull open b4 the meal, and toss boiled oil into the skull of the monkey while it's alive

political thing?no, not at all. I didn't mentioned any party, international affair, or military

and how can u prove that our "science" proved inverts can not feel tha pain as the same level as verts do? prove it, and plz prove the "science" is not doughtful first
if u think science is inarguable, then u r Eurocentric

just pure arguments that feeding that rat pinky to a mantid to me is okay, don't mix it with politics

 

[Randolph XX()]

Ok...take everything you said in this thread and ask yourself, "Does this have anything to do with the topic?", we are saying (from what I can tell) is that it is not necissary to feed a praying mantis a mouse because the praying mantis is not going to eat a whole mouse and it is a waste of: "food", money and it is sick to think about because, unlike a cricket that will be eaten quickly by a praying mantis, a mouse will feel the pain of the mantis' saliva (which I believe is acidic to soften a bug's exoskeleton),the mantis's claws which I have a scar on my finger from, and not to mention the pain of being eaten alive. With a cricket, usually the pm will take off the head first (speaking from watching mine do that time and time again) so that the cricket feels pain for a short while. A mouse however will feel that pain longer because there is more to it, which in the end ends up as a bloody mess which was very risky and unnecessary,risky because the pm could get hurt if the bites/claws the pm in defence.
I mean, really, you are taking what we're saying and making it much more complicated than what it is, all we're saying is that it is a bad idea and in my opinion in-humane (however, that is my opinion, I'm not trying to "force" it on you) to feed a praying mantis a mouse for the sheer entertainment.

And tell me, can you imagine the pain that mouse was feeling? I know I can't but I do know one thing, the pain lasted longer than that of a cricket or a roach.

btw, it's a pinky
there are no risk of harming that person's pet

 

[Parahybana3590]

btw, it's a pinkythere are no risk of harming that person's pet

no, unfortunately it's not. This is the one wher they put a mantis and an adult mouse together in a small jarr. Idiots...

Actually, it was an adult, so there is a risk of harming that peosons pet

 

[Scythemantis]

btw, it's a pinky
there are no risk of harming that person's pet

High risk of disease and parasites from anything but frozen. Just like in the wild. Predators take a risk every time they eat. If we want to re-create that risk, why are we even keeping them as pets in the first place?

And I assumed you meant live puppies because live feeding was the only problem anyone was having. There wasn't really anything else for you to argue against.

by your "additional" point "LIVE", i know Chinese ppl eat monkey brain live
they crack the skull open b4 the meal, and toss boiled oil into the skull of the monkey while it's alive

Which, cultural or not, is nothing short of vile. I don't care if it's a part of someone's religion - it is savagery, and such a practice in ANY context deserves no respect from the civilized world.

 

[Randolph XX()]

i respect ur own belief on the pain theory, though different from mine
but
savage?
hold a sec pal, guess my Vegan friends take u that way while u r having ur medium-rare steak lol
and who calls who "Barbarians" in ancinet times just by the bar bar bar language ,which are similar to wat we are speaking now?
Civilized?
wow dude, it's a great great staement that u made
u are so sure ur world is so civilized that u are able to define others as not so civilized just by the food culture or the feeder preferences

let's focus the Englsih word "civilized" when u interpret others "delicacy" into "uncivilized"

my English is not that brilliant, so i used the online dictionary by columbia

civilized
adj.

1. Having a highly developed society and culture.
u sure ur society is more developed than others?well, depends on who lives in a big cities?
also the culture?developed popular culture? developed fast food culture?

2. Showing evidence of moral and intellectual advancement; humane, ethical, and reasonable

by that point, i don't see much from ur ethical value, and reasonable

3. Marked by refinement in taste and manners; cultured; polished.

ur manner or their manner?
u disrespect them, so i do not think they should respect ur "civilized" manner
cultured u claims that u don't care, but where does the "disrespect" statement come from if u don't really care "cultural or not"

polished
dude, my Vegan friends cannot really see how polished ur silverwear are when u are cutting that juicy pinkish steak into pieces

not trying to be nip ticking, but ur disrespecting is not so appreciated

 

[Stylopidae]

You make a good point, but I feel I have to point out that a monkey is a primate, and thus closest to us on the evolutionary tree.

Tossing a live monkey into hundreds of degrees hot oil is completely different than eating a steak because the cows are killed in a humane way and feel no pain when they are butchered.

At least, that's how it works ideally

 

[odwan]

the cows are killed in a humane way and feel no pain when they are butchered

You might want to give it a second thought......

http://www.justeatveggies.com/animals.htm
http://www.hedweb.com/hillman/animpain.htm

The fact that we don't see animals being killed might make us thing that we are civilized......

the encounter would never even occur in the wild

I am never convinced about this whole 'happening in the wild' thing. In the wild, human sometimes encounter bears or lions and get eaten, but this doesn't mean that the Colosseum fight is ethnical. Whether something actually happens in the wild has nothing to do with ethnic. I very much doubt whether a wild mantis in africa or Malaysia is likely to encounter a house cricket that is native to america. On the other hand, mantis do encounter birds, snakes, rodents in the wild and prey on them from time to time. There is a documentary in the discovery channel where mantis are eating all sort of crap....

This same video has been posted on another forum where most people are keeping mantis. Most responses are like 'Cool', 'Great fight' etc and no one ever talked about ethnics. While this is very sick, gross, disturbing and is giving the hobby a bad image, not everyone finds it unethnical in the same way that not everyone believes in the bible.

But don't get me wrong, I personally find it very gross and have no intention in feeding live vertebrates, though I do not think there is anything wrong with people doing it either. However, for everyone's sake, please do not post it in AB when the Mods have made it very clear that this is not the kind of image that we want to promote here and is not appropriate on this board.

 

[Scorpendra]

blah, blah, blah.

it's still in bad taste.

please don't jump to conclusions and put words into people's mouths; tossing monkeys into burning oil and eating their brains isn't exactly most people's first thought when they hear the phrase "civilization". or at least more people think of farming animals domesticated for food in the first place than that. there's nothing wrong with having archaic culture imbedded into modern culture, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't mean we should enslave minorities, have monarchal governemnts, or use horse carriages.

 

[Mister Internet]

Ok, we've done this song and dance enough times that *I* could probably write the next 10 posts, impersonating everyone involved. While Arachnoboards has no official stance on activities of this nature, a little common sense, human deceny, and reading through the DOZENS of previous discussions will let you know a few things:

- "Civilization" is a term mostly used by individuals attempting to prove superiority in some fashion.

- "Cultural" is not some holy word that automatically means that a certain practice, behavior, or attitude MUST be respected or considered "civilized".

- "Pain" is a word easily used in reference to mammals, and incorrectly used in reference to invertebrates.

- Getting on your high horse about "live feeding" will only get you in trouble... yes, it's BEST to feed pre-killed prey items, but many of the world's most respected large snake breeders feed live almost exclusively. Why? Convenience, nothing more. Are they wrong? I dunno... do YOU have 5000 snakes to feed weekly?

I think we're done with this conversation.