macrothele sp. taiwan taroko

[Jakub]

Hi,
I am thinking about getting one of these, btu I need to know how potent its venom is and if it is potentially lethal.
Thanks

 

[Venom1080]

Wrong subforum.

 

[Jakub]

well they are mygalomorphs like Ts, so I dont see how this subforum is wrong

 

[sasker]

Well, this forum is for tarantula's only (Theraphosidae). Your question belongs in the subforum for true spiders and other spiders.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Wrong section, but anyway... their venom, while I doubt 'potentially lethal', needs to be considered severe, and of medical relevance (e.g E.R, Hospital: you don't want to have a "weak link" of all sorts if a bite happens).

Careful. Genus Macrothele venom is enough for send someone to Hospital. They are very defensive.

Overall, nice Mygalomorphae. Care is easy.

 

[Nosiris]

You're going to have to assume it's very severe. Macrothele species vary from the merely painful (M calpeiana) to hospitalization (M gigas) with a few unknowns in-between. I'd err on the side of caution if I were you.

 

[USMuscle9403]

How much experience do you have? These are big, defensive spiders that are potentially very toxic. They're about the closest thing you're going to find to Atrax or Hadronyche on the market. While they can't climb smooth surfaces, they are extremely fast and web up their entire enclosures, so an escape is possible, too.

Maybe start with Diplurids or M. calpeiana until you get the gist of them?

 

[Jakub]

Ok, I am sorry, I will use the right subforum next time.
I thought their venom would be severe, but the information on web differ, with some webs saying even that it could kill a human.
I am very cautious with all my Ts, I have experience with african tarantulas, which are very defensive, fast and toxic, so I think I could handle these, but still, I dont want to put my girlfriend and my pets in danger because I want to have a cool bald spider.
EDIT: Thanks for moving the thread

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Ok, I am sorry, I will use the right subforum next time.
I thought their venom would be severe, but the information on web differ, with some webs saying even that it could kill a human.
I am very cautious with all my Ts, I have experience with african tarantulas, which are very defensive, fast and toxic, so I think I could handle these, but still, I dont want to put my girlfriend and my pets in danger because I want to have a cool bald spider.
EDIT: Thanks for moving the thread

When venom potency is concerned, let alone when the Internet is involved, it's normal to end with different info/s.

I 100% stand with what Nosiris said, despite the fact that I think M.calpeiana venom is enough as well for an Hospital trip.

Even if I said that... no, I personally don't think they can be 'potentially lethal' (still no one knows what can happens if the bite area is neck/head etc) in Italy no one can keep those because, due to the combination of powerful venom and the fact that 'too little is know about', they ended up in the illegal Arachnids to keep.

In other European nations they are fine to keep. Extreme caution is adviced, more or less like when dealing with "hot venom" Arachnids, IMO

 

[basin79]

Macrothele are easy to deal with. Their venom potency should never be an issue as you should never get bit.

 

[Jakub]

Even if I never get bit, it is still essential to know what kind of venom potency am I dealing with. I watched some youtube videos of rehouses of macrothele sp. and they dont seem to be very difficult to manipulate with.
Anyway, thanks for all responses to this thread, I am glad that there is a community I can always turn to with these questions.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Maybe start with Diplurids or M. calpeiana until you get the gist of them?

Frankly, venom potency aside, there is no particular difference between M.calpeiana and the one OP wish to buy: both are fast, highly defensive spiders so caution is mandatory always.

Plus, M.calpeiana venom is potent enough for a trip to E.R no matter

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Even if I never get bit, it is still essential to know what kind of venom potency am I dealing with. I watched some youtube videos of rehouses of macrothele sp. and they dont seem to be very difficult to manipulate with.
Anyway, thanks for all responses to this thread, I am glad that there is a community I can always turn to with these questions.

It's the same story, my man

You ask legit questions that needs legit answers.

Problem: too much is yet to learn/studied/discovered about their venom, therefore, according to the 'little' we know about, IMO and I say IMO because others will probably disagree, that genus needs, if not to be considered, threated (home keeping talking) as 'potentially lethal' for avoid issues of all sorts.

No one wants to discover first "finger" (ah ah) 'badass' side effects or else, after all

So, if you really want that and think you are prepared enough, buy one I say. Care is easy, and they are kinda 'hardy' spiders as far as I know. Long tongs, caution and you're fine

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Macrothele are easy to deal with. Their venom potency should never be an issue as you should never get bit.

I do 101% agree my man but, no matter, is an issue to take in consideration, always

 

[basin79]

I do 101% agree my man but, no matter, is an issue to take in consideration, always

Only in labels needed for their enclosure.

They can't climb smooth surfaces at all. So unboxing/rehousing in the bath is 100% safe.

 

[sasker]

Problem: too much is yet to learn/studied/discovered about their venom

No one wants to discover first "finger" (ah ah) 'badass' side effects or else, after all

Wasn't there a guy on Arachnoboards who voluntarily tries the venom potency of spiders? Perhaps we should ask him, once he is fully recovered from his OBT experiment

 

[Kada]

For what its worth, some information from Taiwan where this is a native species.

Taroko is a tourism spot about in the middle on the eastern side of Taiwan. I live about 2 hours south of there. There are a couple Macrothelle species that live there so i think the name "Taiwan Taroko" is basically useless as a name (as multiple described species can be found there) and is simply a collection locale. Its also a national park and would be very much illegal to collect there, though i think collecting any native species is illegal without a permit now. but im not sure. Anyway, the Macrothelle species in taiwan have a wide range and can overlap.

As far as i am aware we don't have any antivenom for spiders here. I just did a search and nothing is coming up. Its not ever discussed commonly about spider bites, so if someone has died, it isnt common knowledge. It is said we only have 2 types of dangerous spiders here, red backs and macrothelle. thats about as far as most peoples knowledge goes I have yet to find a Lactrodectus here though. Macrothelle however are very common. Taiwan has clinics and hospitals everywhere with pretty good equipment, so even snake bites are rarely fatal. there are thousands of variables to consider, so take it all with a grain of salt. hospital visits are probably needed.

some clips from the internet:

1. I have not read this full, just the abstract. i will try and find a copy. This is a thesis
Comparative transcriptomic analysis of venom glands in three Macrothele species (Araneae: Macrothelidae) in Taiwan
it tags: Macrothele taiwanensis、Macrothele gigas、Macrothele holsti and is from 2022. one note, M. gigas is now split. M. gigas is in Japan and what once was called M. gigas in Taiwan is now called Macrothele hungae.

Source: https://ndltd.ncl.edu.tw/cgi-bin/gs...clcdr&s=id="109KMC00114014".&searchmode=basic

Quote:
"蜘蛛毒液因其蛋白毒素具有豐富的多樣性，是有前景的藥物研究來源。我們採集了三種臺灣的毒蜘蛛（Macrothele taiwanensis、Macrothele gigas、Macrothele holsti），對這些物種的毒腺轉錄組進行次世代RNA定序，然後從頭組裝生成組裝體，分別包含 131,169 個重疊群、196,004 個重疊群、130,758 個重疊群、177,301 個重疊群、142,939 個重疊群、163,947 個重疊群、119,492 個重疊群和 117,391 個重疊群。各個組裝體註釋到毒液蛋白的比例為 0.37% 到 0.51%。文氏圖顯示有 109 個毒蛋白都存在於三個 Macrothele 物種，可分類為 2 個神經毒素、一個皮膚壞死毒素、25 個止血損傷毒素、二個離子通道損傷毒素、六個過敏原、六個補體系統損傷毒素和 47 個未分類。在差異表達結果中，我們發現很少有毒液蛋白有差異表達。在 M. gigas 與 M. holsti 比較組，我們發現 venom phosphodiesterase 在 M. holsti 中的表達量相對較高，而 scoloptoxin SSD14 在 M. gigas 中的表達相對較高。這兩種蛋白質都與血小板聚集有關。在 M. gigas與 M. taiwanensis 比較組，我們發現只有 hemolin 在 M. gigas 中表達量相對較高。然而在 M. holsti 與 M. taiwanensis 比較組，所有差異表達的蛋白質都與毒液無關。再加上文氏圖顯示 M. holsti 和 M. taiwanensis 共享最多相同的毒蛋白，這表明 M. holsti 和 M. taiwanensis 具有相似的毒液表達模式。總結來說，與其他兩個物種相比，M. gigas 對血液凝固的積極作用更強。這項研究指出三種 Macrothele 物種之間毒液的主要差異。M. taiwanensis、M. gigas 和 M. holsti 的毒腺轉錄組定序數據可用於進一步的組織特異性研究。"

This is testing a lot of stuff in regards to medicine. one thing that stands out is they say M. gigas (Macrothele hungae) has a stronger blood coagulation effect than the other 2 species and that the 3 species do differ in venom. Im not a doctor so i dont want to translate the whole thing in case im wrong on wording

2. Going by size, im guessing this bite is Macrothele hungae. the other speies dont seem to get as large. Nothing much seems to have come from it. This is the only confirmed bite i can find in Mandarin, as they killed the spider and photographed it. So it seems pretty reliable and not an assumption or mystery identification which is so common with "spider bites".
" Hong Shichang, director of the emergency medicine department of Nantou Hospital [this is central taiwan in the mountains], said that most spider bites in Taiwan will not have a major impact on the human body. Systemic systemic symptoms are not common. What needs to be paid attention to is the prevention of subsequent infections. However, the bite of this large long-tailed spider may cause local symptoms such as swelling of the bite site and soft tissue necrosis. In addition, a few cases have reported symptoms such as dizziness, vomiting, double vision, or numbness. "
Source (media): https://health.ettoday.net/news/965946


In my opinion i would treat it as deadly, and move along like that. It almost certainly is capable of hospitalization, even if there are no recorded deaths. Far beyond what any tarantula could dish out. My 2 cents with som googling on the local language side of things. not much info about.