M. balfouri emergency

[CyanideOwl]

21 days ago I bought 3 balfs.
They were from one communal, I don't know if from one sac. Two of them were fine, one fast and one slower.

The third one came in curled like he was about to moult or dead. Wasn't moving at all so I picked him up, touched him seeing if there is any movement. After I didn't see any I left him in for few minutes and he turned around and walked. The walking was very drunk looking. I wasn't sure if he should be separated or not. I left him in, he walked to get water, drunk some and went into hiding with the rest.



After so many days of observing I only saw 2 of them out at once webbing. After looking inside from underneath I saw 3 butts but one was dark brown and legs were curled a lot. After some time of moving the box he stood on his legs normally.



They have water dish and I spray the web from time to time. They did cover the entrance to the nest from both sides. And from underneath I can only see one. I did drop them mealworms 3 at a time every week. Not sure if they all ate since only one was walking out around.


My question is should I destroy the nest to see if he is there and alive and move him to some singular enclosure if he is still sick or just leave it and hope for the best?

Will they eat him if he dies? Or will they push him out of nest if it happens.
I regret not separating him but then I heard it's not good to add more later on to a communal. I was confused.

Open to suggestions as long as they have something to do with the topic.

View attachment VID20241015113053.mp4

 

[Mustafa67]

21 days ago I bought 3 balfs.
They were from one communal, I don't know if from one sac. Two of them were fine, one fast and one slower.

The third one came in curled like he was about to moult or dead. Wasn't moving at all so I picked him up, touched him seeing if there is any movement. After I didn't see any I left him in for few minutes and he turned around and walked. The walking was very drunk looking. I wasn't sure if he should be separated or not. I left him in, he walked to get water, drunk some and went into hiding with the rest.

View attachment 486039

After so many days of observing I only saw 2 of them out at once webbing. After looking inside from underneath I saw 3 butts but one was dark brown and legs were curled a lot. After some time of moving the box he stood on his legs normally.

View attachment 486040

They have water dish and I spray the web from time to time. They did cover the entrance to the nest from both sides. And from underneath I can only see one. I did drop them mealworms 3 at a time every week. Not sure if they all ate since only one was walking out around.


My question is should I destroy the nest to see if he is there and alive and move him to some singular enclosure if he is still sick or just leave it and hope for the best?

Will they eat him if he dies? Or will they push him out of nest if it happens.
I regret not separating him but then I heard it's not good to add more later on to a communal. I was confused.

Open to suggestions as long as they have something to do with the topic.

View attachment 486042

I hope you’re not keeping these communally

 

[TheraMygale]

If the potentialy weak one moved on and went inside the burrow, then he might just be adjusting. Could have been in premolt and it got interrupted.

you have two choices:

1- you wait and see how it plays out. If you are keeping them communal, there is never a guarantee one will not make it. Strong or not, they can all become game, even in a good setup.

2- you go and get it. Be prepared for what happens if you do that.

 

[viper69]

I regret not separating him but then I heard it's not good to add more later on to a communal.

communals have not been reported in the wild, but this species eating each other in captivity has been!

 

[TheraMygale]

I hope you’re not keeping these communally

communals have not been reported in the wild, but this species eating each other in captivity has been!

OP can do that, if its good or bad, its up to them. I am sure they know that its possible, tarantulas getting eaten. Afterall, they need to research it and decide if they are ready to accept that.

Many m balfouri communals in captivity have been proven, even if some tarantulas get eaten. When i go to my dealer, the first thing i see is a giant enclosure, with an m balfouri communal.

some very good dealers, with excellent reputation, have a communal section and this species comes up.

personaly, at the price they are sold here, i wouldnt risk it. But if i had a breeding pair and the room, i would definitely leave a few slings in there and see what happens.

of course, i would not sell any inbred stock of futur pairings were to happen. I would also make sure to pull sacs when i can. It helps to know what you have going on there. Its more of an expert level thing to me. I am not there yet.

i don’t think we should automaticaly say no to this communal.

@viper69 i still havent found wild records of this so yes that can be true. If they live close together it is because they might be “forced” to. To me, thats just like “if you are comfortable, they arw comfortable”.

this does support your claim,https://ag.purdue.edu/department/entm/_docs/493_capstone/nicolas-cazzaniga.pdf

i still find it interesting and relevant to the topic. Leaving the young in with the mother is what actualy got breeding more successfull. Then led to observing this curious adaptation.

sort of confirms my own vision of how i would start a communal.

 

[viper69]

OP can do that, if its good or bad, its up to them. I am sure they know that its possible, tarantulas getting eaten. Afterall, they need to research it and decide if they are ready to accept that.

Many m balfouri communals in captivity have been proven, even if some tarantulas get eaten. When i go to my dealer, the first thing i see is a giant enclosure, with an m balfouri communal.

some very good dealers, with excellent reputation, have a communal section and this species comes up.

personaly, at the price they are sold here, i wouldnt risk it. But if i had a breeding pair and the room, i would definitely leave a few slings in there and see what happens.

of course, i would not sell any inbred stock of futur pairings were to happen. I would also make sure to pull sacs when i can. It helps to know what you have going on there. Its more of an expert level thing to me. I am not there yet.

i don’t think we should automaticaly say no to this communal.

@viper69 i still havent found wild records of this so yes that can be true. If they live close together it is because they might be “forced” to. To me, thats just like “if you are comfortable, they arw comfortable”.

this does support your claim,https://ag.purdue.edu/department/entm/_docs/493_capstone/nicolas-cazzaniga.pdf

i still find it interesting and relevant to the topic. Leaving the young in with the mother is what actualy got breeding more successfull. Then led to observing this curious adaptation.

sort of confirms my own vision of how i would start a communal.

Tolerating due to proximity is not communal I think. Just need someone to hit that island and look for them in the wild.

 

[TheraMygale]

Tolerating due to proximity is not communal I think. Just need someone to hit that island and look for them in the wild.

yemen is not a great place to be wandering anytime soon. Probably why this has not been researched more.

i definitely agree, it should be explored. It probably isnt, because of the current situation. With this species popularity, we’d already have people outdoor, if it was that easy.

its a fascinating island, Socotra. Even some of the humans there are sort of “endemic”.

the cost of such an expedition, with security, would be priceless.

the weather is very interesting too.

tolerating maybe, adaptation, a great possibility. And adaption, is intelligence

david attenborough seems like the human for this challenge.

 

[viper69]

yemen is not a great place to be wandering anytime soon. Probably why this has not been researched more.

i definitely agree, it should be explored. It probably isnt, because of the current situation. With this species popularity, we’d already have people outdoor, if it was that easy.

its a fascinating island, Socotra. Even some of the humans there are sort of “endemic”.

the cost of such an expedition, with security, would be priceless.

the weather is very interesting too.

tolerating maybe, adaptation, a great possibility. And adaption, is intelligence

david attenborough seems like the human for this challenge.

someday someone will look

 

[TheraMygale]

someday someone will look

if one of us wins the lottery before the other, we should go.

endemic life forms and dangerous terrain. That sounds like a good photography opportunity.

 

[viper69]

if one of us wins the lottery before the other, we should go.

Don't need the lottery, just need to save. It's not that expensive relative to other places on the planet in terms of tour. Flight who knows. There's a lot to see including marine life. A trip like that you look around the world see what else is nearby and kill more than one bird w/a few stones.

 

[TheraMygale]

Don't need the lottery, just need to save. It's not that expensive relative to other places on the planet in terms of tour. Flight who knows. There's a lot to see including marine life. A trip like that you look around the world see what else is nearby and kill more than one bird w/a few stones.

I need the lottery. Saving aint going to pay for all i need to do and see.

 

[CyanideOwl]

I hope you’re not keeping these communally

I am they are from a communal and they came in one small container. They didn't do any aggressive movements towards each other. At least the 2 that are out.

If the potentialy weak one moved on and went inside the burrow, then he might just be adjusting. Could have been in premolt and it got interrupted.

you have two choices:

1- you wait and see how it plays out. If you are keeping them communal, there is never a guarantee one will not make it. Strong or not, they can all become game, even in a good setup.

2- you go and get it. Be prepared for what happens if you do that.

You know what? One of them got out recently in very bright colours almost like after moult. Maybe it was him. Maybe I am constantly seeing a different spider. I couldn't tell but I will probably get your advice and just leave them alone.

I was prepared for the risk of them dying although unlikely since everyone I know and the breeder I got them from has no cannibalism. He started with 10 and they all got into adulthood without any of them being eaten.

communals have not been reported in the wild, but this species eating each other in captivity has been!

It's gonna be hard to check how they do the wild since Yemen is rather a political warzone ATM. Sad tho. Pretty view of those trees.

OP can do that, if its good or bad, its up to them. I am sure they know that its possible, tarantulas getting eaten. Afterall, they need to research it and decide if they are ready to accept that.

Many m balfouri communals in captivity have been proven, even if some tarantulas get eaten. When i go to my dealer, the first thing i see is a giant enclosure, with an m balfouri communal.

some very good dealers, with excellent reputation, have a communal section and this species comes up.

personaly, at the price they are sold here, i wouldnt risk it. But if i had a breeding pair and the room, i would definitely leave a few slings in there and see what happens.

of course, i would not sell any inbred stock of futur pairings were to happen. I would also make sure to pull sacs when i can. It helps to know what you have going on there. Its more of an expert level thing to me. I am not there yet.

i don’t think we should automaticaly say no to this communal.

@viper69 i still havent found wild records of this so yes that can be true. If they live close together it is because they might be “forced” to. To me, thats just like “if you are comfortable, they arw comfortable”.

this does support your claim,https://ag.purdue.edu/department/entm/_docs/493_capstone/nicolas-cazzaniga.pdf

i still find it interesting and relevant to the topic. Leaving the young in with the mother is what actualy got breeding more successfull. Then led to observing this curious adaptation.

sort of confirms my own vision of how i would start a communal.

Yes considering every spider is a cannibal by nature I am aware they can eat each other but if one dies will they eat it or throw him out?
Where I am from they are not expensive at all. I got them at L5 for 35 each, my currency. It would translate to 8 dollars probably haha. But I would still feel bad if he died, can't really put price on life.

Tolerating due to proximity is not communal I think. Just need someone to hit that island and look for them in the wild.

True that but we did see other "tryouts" of communals and this species seems to have little to no victims if from one sac. Even if it's just a close proximity tolerance no other species is as good at keeping themselves from attacking each other.

Edit: spelling.

 

[CyanideOwl]

OP can do that, if its good or bad, its up to them. I am sure they know that its possible, tarantulas getting eaten. Afterall, they need to research it and decide if they are ready to accept that.

Many m balfouri communals in captivity have been proven, even if some tarantulas get eaten. When i go to my dealer, the first thing i see is a giant enclosure, with an m balfouri communal.

some very good dealers, with excellent reputation, have a communal section and this species comes up.

personaly, at the price they are sold here, i wouldnt risk it. But if i had a breeding pair and the room, i would definitely leave a few slings in there and see what happens.

of course, i would not sell any inbred stock of futur pairings were to happen. I would also make sure to pull sacs when i can. It helps to know what you have going on there. Its more of an expert level thing to me. I am not there yet.

i don’t think we should automaticaly say no to this communal.

@viper69 i still havent found wild records of this so yes that can be true. If they live close together it is because they might be “forced” to. To me, thats just like “if you are comfortable, they arw comfortable”.

this does support your claim,https://ag.purdue.edu/department/entm/_docs/493_capstone/nicolas-cazzaniga.pdf

i still find it interesting and relevant to the topic. Leaving the young in with the mother is what actualy got breeding more successfull. Then led to observing this curious adaptation.

sort of confirms my own vision of how i would start a communal.

Also I read this whole document u posted. It only says that a runt may perish by being outcompeted. But they didn't eat him, they retrieved the body which is very helpful to answer my question. Thank you

 

[TheraMygale]

Also I read this whole document u posted. It only says that a runt may perish by being outcompeted. But they didn't eat him, they retrieved the body which is very helpful to answer my question. Thank you

I am glad this document was helpful to you. I find it very fascinating and it gets us thinking. Sometimes, we get great answers from AB. But we can also you our own mind and think for ourselves when we get our hands on good research.

We might go off topic sometimes, but we surely love to talk tarantulas.

Keep posting, keep asking questions. The more people try things and contribute their personal experiences, the more we can learn. We all need to think and explore.

I am hopeful for your mini communal. You started it pretty much the best way you could.

Waiting and watching will be the perfect learning experience.

If you have a “new looking tarantula”, it is very likely that youre “weird” acting one was in premolt. That right there, is also a learning moment. Slings can move weird before a molt. These little bits of info arent always in beginer guides. Its hands on experience. Soon, youll get the premolt sense. Its very exciting.

Im glad you waited: it got to molt. More disturbance could have done great damage.

 

[Brewser]

M.I.A.
Another mystery to be solved.
Perhaps all three will Re-emerge together in Near Future.
Or Not.

 

[Tarantuland]

Destroying the nest is no big deal, it happens all the time in the wild. I’ve raised slings to adults of Balfouri together. I’ve produced a bunch of species, and one unique thing about these guys. I had two sacks last year. I took one from the mom at 2i, they all died in the following weeks. The handful I left together, and the ones I had in individual cups. I have the other sack last year still with the mom and robust 1-2” juvies now. I will now always them with the mom until a minimum of 4-5i. During that time you won’t see much if any cannibalism, more likely if any get eaten they were not gonna survive anyway. Would love to see it in the wild, but these are the only ones I’d do communal of.
That paper posted earlier is really neat. I’ll read it more later, but It looks pre publication. Would love to see it peer reviewed with a statistical analysis

 

[CyanideOwl]

I am glad this document was helpful to you. I find it very fascinating and it gets us thinking. Sometimes, we get great answers from AB. But we can also you our own mind and think for ourselves when we get our hands on good research.

We might go off topic sometimes, but we surely love to talk tarantulas.

Keep posting, keep asking questions. The more people try things and contribute their personal experiences, the more we can learn. We all need to think and explore.

I am hopeful for your mini communal. You started it pretty much the best way you could.

Waiting and watching will be the perfect learning experience.

If you have a “new looking tarantula”, it is very likely that youre “weird” acting one was in premolt. That right there, is also a learning moment. Slings can move weird before a molt. These little bits of info arent always in beginer guides. Its hands on experience. Soon, youll get the premolt sense. Its very exciting.

Im glad you waited: it got to molt. More disturbance could have done great damage.

It's hard to know if it's that one that moulted. I can only see 2 balfs from underneath and it doesn't seem like the nest goes deeper. :C
I guess I just have to wait until they grow out the enclosure. I don't see a dead body anywhere or trash from other food.
It's stressing me out. I could buy 2 more to introduce and hope for the best. There were cases that did it successfully. But I would have to be sure that there are only 2 left.

 

[CyanideOwl]

M.I.A.
Another mystery to be solved.
Perhaps all three will Re-emerge together in Near Future.
Or Not.

The mystery has been solved, I dug them out and uncovered 2. Then poof suddenly another one appeared from the piece of dirt I was holding. He is just shy. I found 1 moult and they all look fat and healthy. They are sharing food or bringing it to the nest I would assume.

Destroying the nest is no big deal, it happens all the time in the wild. I’ve raised slings to adults of Balfouri together. I’ve produced a bunch of species, and one unique thing about these guys. I had two sacks last year. I took one from the mom at 2i, they all died in the following weeks. The handful I left together, and the ones I had in individual cups. I have the other sack last year still with the mom and robust 1-2” juvies now. I will now always them with the mom until a minimum of 4-5i. During that time you won’t see much if any cannibalism, more likely if any get eaten they were not gonna survive anyway. Would love to see it in the wild, but these are the only ones I’d do communal of.
That paper posted earlier is really neat. I’ll read it more later, but It looks pre publication. Would love to see it peer reviewed with a statistical analysis

People usually told me destroying the nest is too much stress for spiders but you are right. How many times is it destroyed in nature and they have nothing to eat. Meanwhile here they have abundance of food so losing some energy to web again is no big deal. Now that I know they all Gucci I won't touch them, once a week airdrop of food and that's it.

 

[TheraMygale]

The mystery has been solved, I dug them out and uncovered 2. Then poof suddenly another one appeared from the piece of dirt I was holding. He is just shy. I found 1 moult and they all look fat and healthy. They are sharing food or bringing it to the nest I would assume.



People usually told me destroying the nest is too much stress for spiders but you are right. How many times is it destroyed in nature and they have nothing to eat. Meanwhile here they have abundance of food so losing some energy to web again is no big deal. Now that I know they all Gucci I won't touch them, once a week airdrop of food and that's it.

Glad to hear you decided what was best for you. Now you know and im happy you won’t be digging every other week.

give them time to adjust. If you had just one fossorial, it would be easy to get a peak, monitor feedings etc.

More means you will not always know, and that’s part of the communal. I am sure you’ll get the hang of it and get a sense of whats going on with time. Its more work and maintenance.

take pictures when you do such interventions. Its rare you’ll get to see them all at once.

 

[CyanideOwl]

Glad to hear you decided what was best for you. Now you know and im happy you won’t be digging every other week.

give them time to adjust. If you had just one fossorial, it would be easy to get a peak, monitor feedings etc.

More means you will not always know, and that’s part of the communal. I am sure you’ll get the hang of it and get a sense of whats going on with time. Its more work and maintenance.

take pictures when you do such interventions. Its rare you’ll get to see them all at once.

I like watching my dirt enclosure as much as the next guy!

And I took 2 pictures because 2 of them are always out and 1 is a shy guy that hides immediately.