Looking for advice - Poecilotheria

[rknralf]

I've decided that it is time to purchase a few ornamentals and am looking for any advice that would insure their health and my safety.
What type of environments do you all normally keep yours in and how do they do with the normal tank cleaning, etc..
Is it best to feed them prior to maintenance or will they normally shy away from human contact.
Also, which Poecilotheria would you recommend as a first?
Thanks!
Ralph

 

[Weapon-X]

RE

you can keep an adult in a 10 gallon tank on its side to alow it more climbing space, some people also make homemade plexi glass lids, then lean 1-2 corkbark peices on the back wall of the tank , they make a web hide, slings can be kept in tall deli cups or vials, you don't need to much substrate maybe 4" and keep humidty depending on species.

 

[Aboreal Rayne]

This is a bad idea....

Also, which Poecilotheria would you recommend as a first?
Thanks!- Ralph<-- Hell no!!

I don't think this is the best idea you've ever had. First off how long have you kept T's for. Do you have any invert experience? If not, think agian. These particular T's are a bit diffrent than others. Not really agressive more "edgy and nervous", if you've never kept T's, put this one on the back burner for a wile... They are extreamly fast, I can't stress how fast I'm talking. I've tried to follow striking speed with my eye, it is BY-FAR faster than you can follow. These are also one of the only T's with "Medically signifigant" Venom, so if you get bit, not only will it hurt short-term; but the long-term systematic effects on humans are completely known. Do you have a history of reacting badly to insect stings? Do you have brothers/sisters, and/or animals in the house? I got a better Idea: Get a Rose Hair, learn about Tarantulas BEFORE gettting a dangerous type. Don't jump the gun...

~Rayne~

 

[Crotalus]

Re: This is a bad idea....

Originally posted by Aboreal Rayne
They are extreamly fast, I can't stress how fast I'm talking. I've tried to follow striking speed with my eye, it is BY-FAR faster than you can follow. These are also one of the only T's with "Medically signifigant" Venom, so if you get bit, not only will it hurt short-term; but the long-term systematic effects on humans are completely known.
~Rayne~

As a first T poecs are not a good choice. But if you had T´s of the more aggressive and fast nature such as Hysterocrates, Haplopelma, Pterinochilus or even better Heteroscodra or Stromatopelma (both arboreal genus) you can start off with a P.regalis which are the most commonly bred Poec.
As for medical significant venom I dont agree - no one have died from a poec bite or got their limbs amputated. I dont think they should be (or any tarantula) regarded as medical significant.

EDIT: I forgot to add my article on P. regalis:
Poecilotheria regalis

/Lelle

 

[Aboreal Rayne]

Amputation=Medically signifigant venom?

As for medical significant venom I dont agree - no one have died from a poec bite or got their limbs amputated. I dont think they should be (or any tarantula) regarded as medical significant.

Well no offense or anything: But medical science does not recognize you as an authoritive source of the effects of Poecilotheria venom. Regaurdless of the cute web-site credentials. The fact of the matter is Pocilotheriae venom IS medically signifigant. You ever been bit? Have you even read a bit report on Poecilotheria? I've seen a bite...Not pretty. Poecilotheria not only has painfull/debilitating short-term effects but the long term are equally dangerius if not more. Poecilotheria venom effects the nevous system and causes it to have "errors" resulting in EXTREAMLY painfull muscle contractions/cramping. How long these symptoms last is pending on body weight/individual response to the venom. But have been reported months after the initial bite. You say Not-medically signifigant? Have you lost your mind? Are you sane? Can you read this? Press four if you're blind... I guess you get the point. Or you could just find a Pokie bite report, and see the truth for your-self if you think I'm lying.

~Rayne~

 

[Crotalus]

Re: Amputation=Medically signifigant venom?

Originally posted by Aboreal Rayne

Well no offense or anything: But medical science does not recognize you as an authoritive source of the effects of Poecilotheria venom. Regaurdless of the cute web-site credentials. The fact of the matter is Pocilotheriae venom IS medically signifigant. You ever been bit? Have you even read a bit report on Poecilotheria? I've seen a bite...Not pretty. Poecilotheria not only has painfull/debilitating short-term effects but the long term are equally dangerius if not more. Poecilotheria venom effects the nevous system and causes it to have "errors" resulting in EXTREAMLY painfull muscle contractions/cramping. How long these symptoms last is pending on body weight/individual response to the venom. But have been reported months after the initial bite. You say Not-medically signifigant? Have you lost your mind? Are you sane? Can you read this? Press four if you're blind... I guess you get the point. Or you could just find a Pokie bite report, and see the truth for your-self if you think I'm lying.

~Rayne~

Please spare me your pathetic attempts to belittle me cos i got a website...
So are you a authority on poec venom? Sorry, I dont think you are.

Show me a medical documentation of anything worse then cramps and pain from a poec bite and I will agree. But you cant cos there arent any. Anyone been close to death, hooked up to a life support machine? No.
You dont understand what medical significant mean. And thats IS a fact.

/Lelle

 

[Henry Kane]

Good point Lelle.

Arboreal Rayne, bro, relax. No need to be defensive (or condescending).

There is no "by the book" treatment for Poecilotheria in any medical journals are there? In not one bite report I've read or first-hand account I've listened to, has any doctor ever saved someone's life from a pokie bite. In fact, they usually have no clue how to handle a pokie bite to begin with. I'm sure it's no walk in the park if you get bit but where has it ever been documented that any doctor anywhere has ever saved a pokie victim's life?

Is it not correct to refer to a venom type as "medically significant" only if medical attention is an absolute necessity for treatment? I may be wrong about that but I'd sure like to hear any other people's opinions on it.

When someone has experience with truly medically significant inverts (as Lelle does) the contrast is probably much clearer to them. You may be the one who's a little blurry on the definition. I'm confident Lelle is not. Just a thought.

Atrax

 

[defour]

Re: Amputation=Medically signifigant venom?

Originally posted by Aboreal Rayne


Well no offense or anything: But medical science does not recognize you as an authoritive source of the effects of Poecilotheria venom. Regaurdless of the cute web-site credentials. The fact of the matter is Pocilotheriae venom IS medically signifigant. You ever been bit? Have you even read a bit report on Poecilotheria? I've seen a bite...Not pretty. Poecilotheria not only has painfull/debilitating short-term effects but the long term are equally dangerius if not more. Poecilotheria venom effects the nevous system and causes it to have "errors" resulting in EXTREAMLY painfull muscle contractions/cramping.

Rayne,

Anyone who knows me well knows that I hate to call people morons, and even if I didn't, I would refrain from it because I would likely be moderated for doing so. However, I have to tell you that I seriously considered calling you just that: a moron.

One, the start of the thread concerned WHICH poke to get as a first. The question was obviously posed by someone with experience with tarantulas. This isn't some Petco newbie who knows nothing about theraphosids.

Secondly, have you been bitten by a Poke? My gut feeling is that you haven't that much experience with them, but are just regurgitating what you've gleaned from the web.

Thirdly, what beef do you have with Lelle? I sense anger here. Are you pissed because he has genuine knowledge to share? Are you feeling inadequate because he's more convincing than you? Maybe you should go punch something for awhile and THEN post.

Lastly, and a low blow it may be, but I get a lot of laughs out of the way you spell!


and to Ralph:

I have had P. striata and P. formosa. Neither have been overly hard to manage. I keep my adults in large kritter-keepers set on end, with cork bark siliconed to the back. I keep mine without substrate, with a large shallow waterdish. They're likely to hide when disturbed, so when a water change needs to be made, a little bumping will cause them to hide in the bark, making removal of the dish simple. I encourage you to get some; they're gorgeous and interesting to watch.

Steve

 

[Vayu Son]

><

I'm with lelle.

back to the question though. Go for formosa, ornata, or rufilata.

or better yet, metallica. ^_^


-V

 

[Henry Kane]

I keep P. formosa, regalis, ornata and fasciata. I will definitey be adding every sp. to my collection that I can.
My firsts were fasciata and ornata. I don't want to generalize ornata's attitude but the 2 I have kept are both a little bit "bolder" then the rest. They aren't exactly passive or shy like the rest of my pokes. None of my other pokes have ever shown aggression toward me. That's not to say that they never will but it's a nice I don't mess with you, you don't mess with me kind of thing.
They do have their flighty moments when their enclosures are being maintenenced but if you just give them a second to find their hiding place, they don't usually budge once they're cozy and safe.
With common sense, good awareness and an understanding of what you're dealing with, you should be fine with any species in my opinion.

Good luck and be sure to let us know your choice(s).

See ya.

Atrax

 

[Aboreal Rayne]

I don't got beef...

Maybee I came across a bit harsh. I was simply correcting Lele's mistakes. I accually Like the web-page, but fail to see relivance of it here. And lastly I consider only a small portion of what I said to be "reguritation" as yall put it. Also Medically signifigant odesn't mean= needs medical attention, or needs amputation, or is nessisarily lifee threatening. In fact all the bite has to do to be considered med. Sig. is show long term effects that are diffrent from the origanal effects. My point is (and's not really arguable) Pokie venom CAN cause harm. I've seen it. Oh and no, I've never been bitten. I'm a bit more carfull around my Pokies than my unfourtuate friend, Brian.<-- he got bit though, if you'ed like to ask him how it felt. I'm not saying you'll die, I never did say that. But you are underintelligent for underestemating the Pokie. Just my thoughts...

~rayne~

I'm not a Moron, I swear!!;P

 

[Crotalus]

Agree on ornata - mine were the most fiesty of the poke species i kept (7 so far)
Rufilata were also quite alert and aggressive (yeah ok - defensive then .
Formosa very nervous and skittish, so were my subfusca´s.
Regalis and fasciata were most of the time calm.

Lots of hiding spots are very important to minimize the quick rushes around the cage.

/Lelle

 

[Crotalus]

Re: I don't got beef...

Originally posted by Aboreal Rayne
Maybee I came across a bit harsh. I was simply correcting Lele's mistakes. I accually Like the web-page, but fail to see relivance of it here. And lastly I consider only a small portion of what I said to be "reguritation" as yall put it. Also Medically signifigant odesn't mean= needs medical attention, or needs amputation, or is nessisarily lifee threatening. In fact all the bite has to do to be considered med. Sig. is show long term effects that are diffrent from the origanal effects. My point is (and's not really arguable) Pokie venom CAN cause harm. I've seen it. Oh and no, I've never been bitten. I'm a bit more carfull around my Pokies than my unfourtuate friend, Brian.<-- he got bit though, if you'ed like to ask him how it felt. I'm not saying you'll die, I never did say that. But you are underintelligent for underestemating the Pokie. Just my thoughts...

~rayne~

I'm not a Moron, I swear!!;P

I think it was you who made the mistakes. And you brought the webpage up - not me. The animals I write about there is based on my experience. When it comes to venom I rely more upon authorities in the field then you.
Maybe I crushed your ideas of keeping a lifethreatening dangerous species at home? Get used to it - poke venom only kill insects and small vertebrats...
Who underestimate pokes? No one. Its just the cold facts. Offcourse a bite is not a pleasent experience - no one can argue about that. But there are a difference between close to death and cramps/pain. Therefor I wont call pokes M.S.
BTW, no theraphosid venom have caused a anaphylactic chock - so a bee sting is more harmful then a poke bite - for some...

/Lelle

 

[Immortal_sin]

poor Ralph! I apologize for AR's attitude, and assumption that you possibly don't even own a tarantula LOL
I will answer the question with the one I started out with: P regalis.
And whilst this may shock, dismay, and make AR jump up and down in a rage...this 4" female pokie went AWOL ...and I never found her.
It's been a year and a half, so I highly doubt she's still alive, but if she is, she wouldn't be hiding in my sheets waiting to bite me
Right now I have:
P regalis
P ornata
P fasciata
P formosa

I have found none of them to be very defensive, but they can be flighty and FAST. The P regalis seems the most laid back, followed by P fasciata, then P ornata. The P formosa is a complete spaz....but YMMV


Whichever one you decide on, I'm sure you'll be pleased with the addition!

 

[esmoot]

Aboreal Rayne flipped out when I started a post about pokies today. He/she even said I should be the first comfirmed death by a t bite and than called me a liar. He/she stated that I lied about there never being a verified death from a tarantula bite, which there has not been. Here are the words of Rick West that he sent to me today:

All reliable world medical records searched have revealed not
one human death from the bite of a tarantula (theraphosidae)
spider ... that person is wrong.

Here is a link to the post with my thoughs on Pokies.

Click here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think there are some good points in the post. Please read it. Aboreal Rayne's hateful post was removed by the mods though.

 

[Phillip]

Other than metallica and subfusca being my faves I like all the pokes and can't really pick one over another. They all have their good qualities to them so you really can't go wrong regardless of species.


Also pay no attention to ARs comments as they are obviously based on a clueless opinion. As you have seen there are no confirmed deaths from any T and as for pokes sending you to the hospital lots of folks go to the hospital when they get the flu. It doesn't mean that the condition is threatening in the grand scheme of things. Are poke bites unpleasant sure but are they something to get worked up over and fear as if the reaper is knocking on your door certainly not. The family dog is a greater threat to you than a poke.

Phil

 

[Immortal_sin]

hmm, wish I'd have seen the post that was deleted
I find it fascinating that there is such a bitter debate over the Poecilotheria genus.
And I find it annoying when people can't be civil, and start getting personal.
AND I find the Arachnopets reference hilarious =D

 

[esmoot]

Here is what AR posted. AR tried to say I encourage newbies to get pokies and other total BS.

Blatent Lie...

Tarantulas don't cause deaths. There has never been a verified case. - Esmoot.

Your lack of educated statments bother me. Before you go off preaching to Newbees and others why don't you get your facts down. Ex: King Baboon (Citharischius Crawshayi) belongs to a group that HAS caused human deaths. You can imagine the effects that caused this didn't subside after 6 - 12 hours.
If you have a history of reacting badly to insect bites, you may be at risk. Ya know Esmoot, no one has ever died from a Pokie, why don't you change that? untill a year or so ago. People used to say the same thing about King Baboons. Sorry but you're VERY wrong Esmoot. People CAN and HAVE died from T bites. But hell Pokie are safe, screw it, ya know? What do they know? It's all there for no reason, your right they're harmless...Pick yours up tonight, oh and be sure to use BOTH hands...<---ARGAHHHH Ignorance I tell you!!!

~Rayne~

 

[Inuleki]

alright.... i don't own a pokie, but that's mainly due to the fact that i've seen just how fast they are (thanks gary for making my heart jump in my chest beautiful T btw) but really, if someone had died from a bite, esp. from a king baboon i'm pretty sure we would have heard about it, and positive that someone like Rick West or Martin would have heard about it....

this whole anti-pokie thing tho is just rediculous, it seems to me that it's almost a phobia... i mean honestly, yeah, they aren't really for people that just start, but it does happen. If you've seen how fast they are, and you realize that it's more than likely going to hurt like hell *IF* you ever get bitten, and you feel you can handle the responsibility, more power to you....

(i personally like the formosa)

just a few thoughts,
-Joshua

 

[MrFeexit]

I think you guys are missing something. I don't think this is his first T, It is going to be his first Pokie. He does ask what would be a good first Pokie.