Liphistius not burrowing in clay wall setup

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

I’ve always been interested in trapdoor husbandry but been cautious due to lack of availability (especially here in Korea) and supposed difficulties in care. After seeing various trapdoor successes and regarding substrate selection and the use of steep slopes and vertical walls on this forum, I decided that I’d go for it when the opportunity came, and that opportunity arrived when a shop started offering Liphistius yangae recently while I had a lot of clay on hand already. I decided to go for it, purchasing it alongside an ExoTerra 180mm x 110mm x 125mm critter keeper-type enclosure. I built the clay wall (mixed with some sand and peat moss) the day I got the spider and was satisfied with the density and general texture of the result-soft enough to excavate easily but hard enough to hold shape.

It has been a week since then, and the spider hasn’t burrowed. It did seem to take to the various starter burrows when herded towards them, staying in them and even assuming hunting postures once or twice, but without ever excavating further or making a trapdoor. From what I have read on this forum, a trapdoor should start excavating in a matter of hours in a properly set-up enclosure.

The two ideas I have are that a) the setup is too small (but in that case I’d expect the animal to at least try and dig a burrow before deciding it’s too small) or b) that the setup isn’t dry enough for the spider to feel comfortable burrowing into it.

Below are images of the setup for better understanding.

 

[Wolfram1]

@RezonantVoid

any tipps?

 

[NMTs]

I had success with mine using my normal substrate mix, similar to reptisoil or terra arana, mixed with coco coir, some sphagnum, and that's it. I housed it in a 32oz deli cup, sloped the substrate and made a starter burrow near the top. Mine didn't burrow or build a trapdoor for a few days, but that's because it was in heavy premolt. Once it molted (right on top of the starter burrow) and hardened, it built a trapdoor and has been expanding it's burrow.

Premolt:

0.0.1 Liphistius cf. yangae "Suwat"

• NMTs
• Sep 4, 2023
• 2
• liphistius suwat trapdoor spider

Newly acquired, rehoused today. Approximately 1.25-1.5" DLS. I felt terrible tearing up it's...

Post molt (it turned this crazy green color while it was hardening):


The enclosure - it doesn't look very sloped now, but that's because of the substrate that has been piled up as the burrow has been excavated:



The trapdoor, with tripwires clearly visible:


And some pics of the burrow and spider from the side/underneath - you can see where all that extra substrate came from:




Yours may be in premolt, so give it a little more time. If another week passes without a molt or burrowing, then consider changing your substrate to something less dense.

 

[RezonantVoid]

@RezonantVoid

any tipps?

Will chime in on my lunch break shortly

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I’ve always been interested in trapdoor husbandry but been cautious due to lack of availability (especially here in Korea) and supposed difficulties in care. After seeing various trapdoor successes and regarding substrate selection and the use of steep slopes and vertical walls on this forum, I decided that I’d go for it when the opportunity came, and that opportunity arrived when a shop started offering Liphistius yangae recently while I had a lot of clay on hand already. I decided to go for it, purchasing it alongside an ExoTerra 180mm x 110mm x 125mm critter keeper-type enclosure. I built the clay wall (mixed with some sand and peat moss) the day I got the spider and was satisfied with the density and general texture of the result-soft enough to excavate easily but hard enough to hold shape.

It has been a week since then, and the spider hasn’t burrowed. It did seem to take to the various starter burrows when herded towards them, staying in them and even assuming hunting postures once or twice, but without ever excavating further or making a trapdoor. From what I have read on this forum, a trapdoor should start excavating in a matter of hours in a properly set-up enclosure.

The two ideas I have are that a) the setup is too small (but in that case I’d expect the animal to at least try and dig a burrow before deciding it’s too small) or b) that the setup isn’t dry enough for the spider to feel comfortable burrowing into it.

Below are images of the setup for better understanding.

View attachment 457083
View attachment 457084

Looks like some thick substrate, let’s see what others think. My a seemani has half top soil , half coco fiber.

 

[RezonantVoid]

Looks like some thick substrate, let’s see what others think. My a seemani has half top soil , half coco fiber.

I'm still a little busy but this is my thought as well, peat tends to turn it smooth and compact IMO, all my mixes look much more like regular soil by the time in finished a batch. I'll put up my substrate making process shortly

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

Ah, I thought that it would be better to make the substrate firm to allow for sloping and forming clay lids, but guess I overdid things.

Note that the clay I have on hand is naturally reddish, which is why the substrate mix looks that way.

 

[Wolfram1]

i have often contemplated buying some potting clay, rolling it out and using it just as a thin surface over my regular mix, holding the "cliff" in place

@RezonantVoid, you recon that could work?

i might try it in the future, i just need a thunnelweb first XD

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

Update; the spider has started lining one of the starter burrows with silk but hasn’t excavated it any further or set up a trapdoor. I would prefer to change the substrate if I could, but it’s very much on the thin side and I’d rather have it eat once before being rehoused.

 

[Smotzer]

It has been a week since then, and the spider hasn’t burrowed.

Honestly I find that near all WC arachnids can take more than just a week to settle in regardless of type. At least that's how its been for me pretty much across all domains.

Also if it hasn't fully settled in yet and started excavating id say you'd be better to change it now before it does fully settle in if your wanting to alter the substrate mix.

 

[NMTs]

I agree with @Smotzer - why wait for something it may do eventually, when you can make a change that should get it to initiate burrow/trapdoor building sooner? In the pics you posted, it is covered in mud, which leads me to believe that it's been all over the enclosure looking for a suitable place to build a burrow but just hasn't found one. Once mine molted and hardened, it had a burrow excavated and a trapdoor built within a day, and was eating the next day after that, so it shouldn't take long once it has better substrate.

 

[Smotzer]

I agree with @Smotzer - why wait for something it may do eventually, when you can make a change that should get it to initiate burrow/trapdoor building sooner? In the pics you posted, it is covered in mud, which leads me to believe that it's been all over the enclosure looking for a suitable place to build a burrow but just hasn't found one. Once mine molted and hardened, it had a burrow excavated and a trapdoor built within a day, and was eating the next day after that, so it shouldn't take long once it has better substrate.

^^This is solid advice OP

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

I agree with @Smotzer - why wait for something it may do eventually, when you can make a change that should get it to initiate burrow/trapdoor building sooner? In the pics you posted, it is covered in mud, which leads me to believe that it's been all over the enclosure looking for a suitable place to build a burrow but just hasn't found one. Once mine molted and hardened, it had a burrow excavated and a trapdoor built within a day, and was eating the next day after that, so it shouldn't take long once it has better substrate.

Normally I’d agree with this but the big concern is that it might starve to death overnight due to how thin its abdomen is at the moment. That first picture was taken before it started laying down silk at one of the starter burrows (it no longer wanders around the enclosure): If it’s starting to lay down silk it might actually eat, and I might be throwing away a chance to keep it alive by rehousing it immediately when it needs to feed.

For all I know this thing is only hours away from excavating a burrow and building a trapdoor, and forcing it to start over might kill it for real.

 

[Smotzer]

Normally I’d agree with this but the big concern is that it might starve to death overnight due to how thin its abdomen is at the moment. That first picture was taken before it started laying down silk at one of the starter burrows: If it’s starting to lay down silk it might actually eat, and I might be throwing away a chance to keep it alive by rehousing it immediately when it needs to feed.

It didn’t not look thin at all in the photo?

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

It didn’t not look thin at all in the photo?

That photo is from a few days ago, and keep in mind that Liphistius abdomens can’t shrink as much as those of Ts or true spiders due to the fact they retain hardened segments; it’s already pretty thin in that image.

Also-we don’t have Reptisoil or Terra Aranea over here in Korea, all the commercially available substrate mixes are some sort of peat/clay/coir mix (and IIRC that’s basically what Reptisoil is). I am using a sub that’s over 80% clay specifically because people on this forum who know more than I do told me not to use coir. Now I’m being told by those same people that I have to use a coir mix?

 

[NMTs]

That photo is from a few days ago, and keep in mind that Liphistius abdomens can’t shrink as much as those of Ts or true spiders due to the fact they retain hardened segments; it’s already pretty thin in that image.

Have you tried offering it a prey item yet? It may eat without a trapdoor if it's that hungry...

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

Also-we don’t have Reptisoil or Terra Aranea over here in Korea, all the commercially available substrate mixes are some sort of peat/clay/coir mix (and IIRC that’s basically what Reptisoil is). I am using a sub that’s over 80% clay specifically because people on this forum who know more than I do told me not to use coir. Now I’m being told by those same people that I have to use a coir mix?

Have you tried offering it a prey item yet? It may eat without a trapdoor if it's that hungry...

I did and didn’t get a response, but that was before it started laying down silk and became sedentary.

The issue is that there is a) a cricket shortage and b) a long public holiday in Korea right now, so there is no way for me to get appropriate feeders until at least Thursday. If I had feeders left right now I’d have tried feeding it already. This is another reason I am conflicted about rehousing it right here and now-I cannot afford to have it wandering around again and expending energy until it’s actually eaten something.

 

[NMTs]

I think there may have been some misunderstanding there, because I've not seen anyone that is saying to use coco coir exclusively, or not to use it at all. I think the mixes that you have available that are peat/clay/coir/sand/charcoal/other organics would work fine - that is essentially what I'm using. The coco coir in my mixture is minimal, maybe 10%, but it helps with moisture retention. I even think you could take the clay substrate you're using now and use it in a mixture with about 50% topsoil and it would work, too - just something to loosen it up enough to where the spider can break it apart easily but it will still hold it's shape. Honestly, if it's already adopting one of the burrows and lining it with silk, you could possibly even just top what you have in there with a light layer of peat/top soil/etc. to give it something to stitch together into a trapdoor - that might work, too.

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

Oh, I am not using 100% clay-it's about 70-80% clay and the rest is a combination of peat and sand. It's actually not set very hard-I can easily gouge into it with minimal effort-so I can't imagine a Liphistius would have much trouble excavating it. The reason for avoiding coir like the plague is mostly based on my own experiences and what @RezonantVoid has stated about coir (or even coir mixes) being too loose for trapdoor burrowing activities. I've had some success with clay-coir mixes for Pelinobius, but better not to generalize too much

As for topsoil, all the topsoil mixes I can find have chemical fertilizers mixed in.

The plan I have is (assuming it doesn't starve until I have access to feeders) is to hopefully get it to eat now that it's sedentary, and if it still can't build a trapdoor, to redo the enclosure then when it's not at immediate risk of starvation. If it doesn't eat on Thursday, I can switch out the enclosure on Thursday and then see if it's burrowed by Friday.

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

So a brief update to the situation.

The feeders came in a day earlier than expected, the trapdoor didn't eat, and I did as other have suggested here and swapped out the substrate (to a mixture that's about 50% clay, 40% coir and 10% sand). However, the trapdoor has not burrowed as of now.

@RezonantVoid-what’s the formula for your substrate mixture? You’ve emphasized the need for firm, rather than loose, substrate in the past but that hasn’t been working for me.