Let's talk about water dishes

[Bugmom]

Just some random musings I was thinking about.

I'm going to be honest here about my husbandry: Tarantulas (juvies and adults) that consistently fill their water dishes with substrate just stop getting water dishes. I like to give them enough credit for knowing how to take care of themselves that they can decide if they need the water dish or not.

Maybe not a popular opinion on here, but I see it this way: We assume they will eat and molt and dig and all that when and if they want, so why do we not assume the same is true for water dishes? It's not as if having a bowl of water inches from a burrow is a natural occurrence to them, especially desert and tree dwellers. Maybe they even see a bowl of water as a threat, as something that could flood their burrows. We can guess, but we can't actually think, like a tarantula.

Let's look at Aphonopelma hentzi. I've found countless burrows, out in the desert, 10, 20, 30 miles from the nearest water source, months into a drought and 100+ degree heat. The T's inside these burrows were not dehydrated. They were quite plump. If we aren't baking our tarantulas with artificial heat sources, and we provide healthy feeders on a regular basis, why do we assume they also need 24/7 access to water? That is not natural for them. If we are trying to replicate the conditions of their wild/natural habitats, why do we give them something that they would not have in the wild, then worry when they don't use it?

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't use a water dish. It should be offered. But I also think having 8 dishes buried in the substrate because it's buried all 8 of them is kind of the proverbial "definition of insanity." I use water dishes in enclosures where they aren't filled with substrate on a consistent basis. But if I fill dish and a day later it's buried, and then that process repeats two or three times, I'm going to pay attention to what my tarantula is telling me: "I am not going to use this for it's intended purpose." That's when I stop providing a dish and start wetting a difference corner each week. Then I pay attention: Does the tarantula actively avoid that corner? Well that tells me something too - it flat-out doesn't like moist substrate. I'm not going to keep doing something that the tarantula is showing me it doesn't like (according to my own interpretation of it's behavior, which can sometimes feel like trying to understand an alien race).

I know we are all very concerned about dehydrating our tarantulas. And this is NOT regarding slings. This is regarding juvies and adults. I know dehydration is a legit concern for species that aren't native to areas that have droughts or low average rainfall amounts. But what about the species who live in those areas? Are keepers worrying too much about water dishes? Could we be actually be stressing some tarantulas by giving them a water dish - namely the ones who consistently bury the dish, or kick a bolus into it? Could that mean they see the dish as something unsavory to begin with?

Again, just some musings that I thought would make for good, hopefully informative, discussion.

 

[Radium]

Since Euathlus sp. red fasts a lot, I'm personally not willing to take a chance. Besides, I'm willing to bet they do drink out of rain-filled tire tracks, puddles etc. when they're available in nature.

As determined as she is to cause extra janitorial duties for me by burying her water dish, I have seen this particular tarantula drink from it (and also lounge by it for hours, delicately resting her first feet and pedipalps in the water like a trophy wife at a Fourth of July pool party).

 

[cold blood]

It's not as if having a bowl of water inches from a burrow is a natural occurrence to them, especially desert and tree dwellers.

Actually it pretty much is, dew forms every night/morning (during what is commonly peak t activity).

I've speculated that one reason for such heavy mats of webbing in African species is to collect and hold water. I've noticed many times where water puddles on these mats actually lasts longer than the stuff in the dish. Seems like most ts from dry places lay these thick mats in and around their burrows.

 

[Echo]

I've heard why the Ts do this is due to the suspected reason that the water source will seduce natral enermy...
Just get control of the humidity of substrate considering different species. One suggestion I've heard is like this: FIRST, water the sub and make it realllly moist. Keep a really good ventilation and wait for it getting dry on the surface, then start feeding. When the sub is realllly dry, water it throughout again. ALWAYS KEEP A REALLY GOOD VENTILATION, and go into this cycle. It can simulate the rainfall in the wild, isn't it? Plus, the species from the drought such as desert can't stand what i just post.
As for the water dish...i would just get one....better than nothing...fill water at will...but make sure there is water especially when i am on a trip or after T's molting.

 

[14pokies]

I've speculated that one reason for such heavy mats of webbing in African species is to collect and hold water. I've noticed many times where water puddles on these mats actually lasts longer than the stuff in the dish. Seems like most ts from dry places lay these thick mats in and around their burrows.

Great theory!

I do basically the same thing with a tarp layed over a shallow hole that I dig before sundown when I'm deep in the woods away from a water source..

It would be awesome if there was some proof of this...

 

[Poec54]

Actually it pretty much is, dew forms every night/morning (during what is commonly peak t activity).

I've speculated that one reason for such heavy mats of webbing in African species is to collect and hold water. I've noticed many times where water puddles on these mats actually lasts longer than the stuff in the dish. Seems like most ts from dry places lay these thick mats in and around their burrows.

Since we can't duplicate our tarantula's climate & weather, we have to do some things differently. I can't imagine not using water bowls for my spiders. A few people can pull it off, but for the majority, they will lose spiders.

You can't simply go by rainfall. There are coastal areas that are very dry, yet plants flourish there from the regular fogs. Using arid species as an example isn't representative. Even obtaining water in less obvious ways, they must still have evolved to conserve water through a variety of efficiencies. That's very different from many tropicals that live with high rainfall, and have other survival priorities.

 

[Chris11]

I use a water dish for every one of mine, just on the off chance that it NEEDS a drink it has one available.

 

[Sam_Peanuts]

They need water, not dishes so as long as they get their fill of water, either way is fine. A water dish is mostly the better thing to do because it's easier to maintain a constant supply of water which is safer for the tarantula, but if it becomes harder than moistening the soil on a more regular basis, then it loses a lot of it's advantage.

If I have an arid species who always buries their water dish(I'm looking at you OBTs), I'll end up leaving the dish buried at some point and simply moisten part of the substrate once in a while or make a puddle on their web if possible since as cold blood said, it can hold water wonderfully well.
If it's a species that require a bit more humidity, I'll make an extra effort to keep the dish from getting buried and if they require a ton of humidity, the substrate will pretty much be completely moist except from the top part that will dry from time to time so I'm much less worried about the dish, but they'll always have one if it doesn't get buried.

They often bury it because they seem to desire a flat surface in front of their burrow and since the enclosures we usually provide are often fairly small, there's not a lot of places to put a water dish where it won't be in their way. In bigger enclosures, it's often less of a problem.

 

[Bugmom]

Actually it pretty much is, dew forms every night/morning (during what is commonly peak t activity).

I've speculated that one reason for such heavy mats of webbing in African species is to collect and hold water. I've noticed many times where water puddles on these mats actually lasts longer than the stuff in the dish. Seems like most ts from dry places lay these thick mats in and around their burrows.

Dew isn't the same as a 2 oz deli cup full of water though. At least, not in my head.

I've yet to find a hentzi burrow that had much webbing around it at all. Now, obviously, that's only one species, representing one little area of the world, in one specific climate, but it was what made me think of all this.

 

[cold blood]

Not the same? Its life giving water in both occurrences.

In the wild, dew is there like clockwork. To emulate the "wild", you'd almost have to be on the ball with the mister from midnight till the sun comes up. Not a realistic endeavor, hence the use of a water dish.

I doubt very highly that ts in the wild are going to streams/lakes/ponds/rivers to get drinks, those are dangerous places for spiders. They certainly don't need deep pools, but from a keeper standpoint, the deeper pool of a water dish is simply a more convenient way to keep this water source available with the most consistency.

Its a proven fact that an experienced keeper can easily get away without a water dish, but its also a fact that for most of us, a dish is a better, safer, more reliable way to ensure our ts stay hydrated with less effort and guesswork.

 

[lalberts9310]

Since you can't replicate the exact climate from the region a species is native to in a enclosure, I honestly think providing water where possible is indeed vital. And in this instance a water dish is the most convenient way to make sure the T has access to a water source. I understand not providing a waterdish for species that tends to burrow/fill the dish, or for heavy webbers like GBBs and M. balfouris, if the owners still provides access to water in the form of dribbling water drops on webbing etc. But that doesn't mean it's useless, or other species won't use it or need it.

I live in a extremely hot region (temps rise 110 F during summer) and since I own tropical aboreals mostly I don't have the issue of Ts filling dishes with dirt or burying them.. in fact, this summer with these heat waves we're having, I notice my Ts drinking a LOT more water, when they hang around the dish and I refill it they will instantly, when they feel waterflow, dunk their mouthparts into the waterdish and take one big and long sip (and they are all plumb, so it's not a dehydration issue). So water dishes isn't unnecessary and if a T drinks from it it's proof that they use it. And I witnessed this with ALL my tropical aboreals, adults and juvies. The only ones in my collection who gets a few droplets of water on their webbing for drinking are my juvie M. balfouris, as they web so damn much and I have to clean the dish every day because all the water wicks out into the substrate making it soaking wet, and balfouris should be kept dry. So they are the only ones I keep without dishes.

 

[gypsy cola]

I use a water dish in every single enclosure except most slings. I know some spiders won't drink from it but it I don't care. It's aesthetics for me.

When it comes to tarantulas, the phrase "to each his own..." comes to mind

 

[EDED]

nice topic,

For a long time I thought water dish was only for WC spider that looked horrible.

I recently got a bunch of sauce dishes off amazon to give every adult spiders of all kinds an option to have water available.
like others have said once you see a well fed, humid tank, tropical spider drinking a lot it makes you wonder what happened

Pre molt spiders and post molt spiders always get water as well.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

One difference between captivity and the outdoors is the type of soil/ substrate tarantulas live in. Different soils retain and absorb water differently. In captivity, tarantula keepers primarily use cocofiber, vermiculite, peat moss, or a combination of which have good water retention properties so it quickly soaks up and locks in water. In the wild, tarantulas primarily live in clay or sandy clay soil; although I'm sure it varies a great deal and this obviously excludes arboreal species. Soils that contain a higher clay particle content are poor at absorbing water. Tarantulas are probably drinking the water contained in the soil when it's available and when it's not, water is provided by what they eat. In the wild it would conceivably be easy for a tarantula to drink from the soil since clay doesn't absorb water well. In captivity, they probably are not able to do so as well since the substrate locks in the water. Ever notice when it rains or when you water the lawn water pools up on the ground for a while and how soggy the ground is? Ever notice how quickly a substrate like cocofiber soaks up water? One thing to keep in mind when deciding to use a water dish or not.

 

[viper69]

I like to give them enough credit for knowing how to take care of themselves that they can decide if they need the water dish or not.

They can make decisions. It's true we don't know what they are thinking/reacting. However the above statement assumes that the T knows the following: it's covering a water dish, it's covering it's ONLY source of water. W/those assumptions in place, then one may assume "the T doesn't want a water dish". That's a poor assumption. At best all we know is that it's filling in a wet hole for some unknown reason.

I'm primarily a NW owner. My Avics are chronically more thirsty than my NW terrestrials, esp my Brachy and Grammo's. My male E sp Red always dumps sub into its water dish. Some of my AF Brachy's do that, but rarely. Yet despite my male E sp Red being fed, he always goes for the water, despite the fact he filled in not long ago. I've also observed some Ts won't start eating again until after getting a drink.

My AF B. albo, went without food for 18 months, and without significant water too, talk about ability to conserve food/energy/water. Temps were 75/70 day/night. When she started eating again for no obvious reason, she was already FAT. Her abdomen is the largest for her size of all my Brachys. Yet despite her fat abdomen, she will DRINK!!

So, I'm not saying you are wrong or right, I'm only saying I don't believe your rationale is accurate re: the subfilling and they don't want water, and is predicated on assumptions in my opinion based on how it reads.

In the end, I do believe it's important to provide water because the most FAT Ts still drink despite being well fed. I've seen it in a few of my species.

 

[gypsy cola]

I think the water dish conversation may have to be refined down to species. Some T's may be covering the dish different reasons. Hopefully this doesn't confuse any new keepers and spawn ever more posts "HELP should I remove the water dish?!!!"

 

[Pociemon]

Not the same? Its life giving water in both occurrences.

In the wild, dew is there like clockwork. To emulate the "wild", you'd almost have to be on the ball with the mister from midnight till the sun comes up. Not a realistic endeavor, hence the use of a water dish.

I doubt very highly that ts in the wild are going to streams/lakes/ponds/rivers to get drinks, those are dangerous places for spiders. They certainly don't need deep pools, but from a keeper standpoint, the deeper pool of a water dish is simply a more convenient way to keep this water source available with the most consistency.

Its a proven fact that an experienced keeper can easily get away without a water dish, but its also a fact that for most of us, a dish is a better, safer, more reliable way to ensure our ts stay hydrated with less effort and guesswork.

The day i stopped using waterbowls my time with T´s changed for the better.... I only use them if i give a T a longer cooling/dry period. it is much less time consuming to use a sprayer every other day, rather than keep filling water in these bowls all the time. But i do understand it for people who keep terrestrials, it can be a easyer way to make sure the T has acces to water. With burrowers i use a sprayer in front of their burrow, that does the trick nicely. I did use waterbowls with NW terrestrials, but i that was in the early days of my hobby here, i cant take the hairs, so leave them out of this!
For arboreals i just use a sprayer 2 times a week, and just adjust if it is rainy season or dry season. I would reccomend people to getting at this point, it will make life much more easy going.
But i really dont understand why people reccomend using waterbowls for arboreal slings, that makes no sense whatsoever, when i have many offspring home i might have 500+ slings home, i put them in small vials with just potting soil in. Humidity they will get when i feed them. I make sure my feeder animals are well hydrated and i make sure the humidity is around 70%. I dont mist at slings, just give dirt some water.

 

[Sam_Peanuts]

A waterdish is a safety net, that's why they are recommended for every tarantula when possible.

You can still moisten dirt even if they have a waterdish, but if you forget or it dries faster than you anticipated, water in a dish/bowl should stay for longer or at the very least, it will have been an extra source of it without risking adding too much water to the substrate since not everyone knows when to stop.

Access to more water means you don't have to add some as often, that's why I use them with my arboreal slings who don't bury them.

Also, I use a spray bottle to fill my water dish is it's exactly the same as wetting the substrate. As long as they don't drop something nasty in them, they don't need to be removed and cleaned/replaced.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

From my point of view the water dish is necessary. There's only cons in not using one IMO.

 

[cold blood]

But i really dont understand why people reccomend using waterbowls for arboreal slings, that makes no sense whatsoever, when i have many offspring home i might have 500+ slings home, i put them in small vials with just potting soil in. Humidity they will get when i feed them. I make sure my feeder animals are well hydrated and i make sure the humidity is around 70%. I dont mist at slings, just give dirt some water.

Many of us, if not most (including myself) suggest water dishes once the enclosure can accommodate it. I don't think I have ever heard of anyone suggesting or using water dishes in vials. I think most of us do exactly what you do with small slings.