Leiurus quinquestriatus / Death Stalker questions

[JcDombrowski]

Hey everyone!

So, I am getting Leiurus quinquestriatus (adult 3 inches) at the end of June, and just had a few questions! First and foremost I am an experienced keeper of arachnids, and I'm an entomologist (although I studied Spider Venom and mygalomorph taxonomy not scorpions), but just having some trouble finding a comprehensive guide, and wanted to see if my proposed set up is ok:
- 4 gallon low tank, secure lid.
- 4 inches of sand / cocofiber mix (I believe it's one from a location that doesn't have complete sand based on the images I was sent)
- Some secure stones, a hide, some sturdy structures for climbing
- a small bottle cap for water, will be fed mostly crickets, maybe a rare large meal worm or super worm (they have a lot of fat so don't want to give them too much)
- an overhead low wattage light on a day night cycle that does have the ability to show its fluorescence at night but I won't leave this on all the time

Is there anything else I am missing? I want the tank to be completely set up and complete before the scorpion is there because after it is in the tank I will be extremely hands off, will be putting their food in through a smaller latch and only utilizing tongs if necessary for maintenance / care. Thank you so much in advance!

 

[fcat]

Really happy to have you here and looking forward to more posts from you! Sorry I don't have intel for you though.

If you didn't find anything searching here, trying using Google to search the site. Sometimes you get better results.

 

[darkness975]

Hey everyone!

So, I am getting Leiurus quinquestriatus (adult 3 inches) at the end of June, and just had a few questions! First and foremost I am an experienced keeper of arachnids, and I'm an entomologist (although I studied Spider Venom and mygalomorph taxonomy not scorpions), but just having some trouble finding a comprehensive guide, and wanted to see if my proposed set up is ok:
- 4 gallon low tank, secure lid.
- 4 inches of sand / cocofiber mix (I believe it's one from a location that doesn't have complete sand based on the images I was sent)
- Some secure stones, a hide, some sturdy structures for climbing
- a small bottle cap for water, will be fed mostly crickets, maybe a rare large meal worm or super worm (they have a lot of fat so don't want to give them too much)
- an overhead low wattage light on a day night cycle that does have the ability to show its fluorescence at night but I won't leave this on all the time

Is there anything else I am missing? I want the tank to be completely set up and complete before the scorpion is there because after it is in the tank I will be extremely hands off, will be putting their food in through a smaller latch and only utilizing tongs if necessary for maintenance / care. Thank you so much in advance!

So far it sounds okay. Glad the safety is taken seriously.

 

[Joey Spijkers]

an overhead low wattage light on a day night cycle that does have the ability to show its fluorescence at night but I won't leave this on all the time

A low wattage bulb for heat during the day, no light at night. The fluorescence happens under blacklight, however this is harmful long term, so blacklight should only be used for a few seconds at a time to locate them for example.

Other than that, it sounds like you're aware of the needs.

 

[JcDombrowski]

A low wattage bulb for heat during the day, no light at night. The fluorescence happens under blacklight, however this is harmful long term, so blacklight should only be used for a few seconds at a time to locate them for example.

Other than that, it sounds like you're aware of the needs.

Awesome! Thank you so much for letting me know! Will definitely do that!

 

[RMLeone]

I use sand only for Leiurus Quinquestriatus. Instead of rocks, which could potentially harm your scorpion (unless you hot glue them together) I use driftwood or cork bark, it's much lighter so if they dig in the sand it won't harm them if it fell. They really don't need water, you want to keep desert scorpions dry to prevent a very deadly fungal infection call mycosis. They should get their liquid from prey. I use a 3 gallon aquarium for betas. I use an infrared heat bulb that I place at one end so I achieve a temperature gradient. Give them a hide on both ends so they can move as needed. The nice thing about the IR heat bulb is they don't disturb the scorpions they can't see it, but you can observe them at night crawling about. Enjoy your new scorpion. Leiurus species are fun and feisty.

 

[JcDombrowski]

I use sand only for Leiurus Quinquestriatus. Instead of rocks, which could potentially harm your scorpion (unless you hot glue them together) I use driftwood or cork bark, it's much lighter so if they dig in the sand it won't harm them if it fell. They really don't need water, you want to keep desert scorpions dry to prevent a very deadly fungal infection call mycosis. They should get their liquid from prey. I use a 3 gallon aquarium for betas. I use an infrared heat bulb that I place at one end so I achieve a temperature gradient. Give them a hide on both ends so they can move as needed. The nice thing about the IR heat bulb is they don't disturb the scorpions they can't see it, but you can observe them at night crawling about. Enjoy your new scorpion. Leiurus species are fun and feisty.

Awesome! I used aquarium safe glue to hold the rocks together in a natural formation! Thank you all so much!

 

[RMLeone]

Awesome! I used aquarium safe glue to hold the rocks together in a natural formation! Thank you all so much!

I hope you enjoy your new scorpion, before you know it you'll have more and be a pro. Scorpions are such an easy to care for animal, pretty low maintenance and overall cost of ownership is doable on most budgets. Once you get the basics, it's pretty easy. A friend of mine was wanting to get a scorpion because she sees all mine on my social media. I told her it's not complicated and they really don't require a ton of work and they can be 100% safe if you follow proper handling.

Ps. About every 6 months you want to change the substrate so you'll want to pull everything out. Get a clear deli cup with lid and place it in the enclosure and you can use your tongs to gently pick the scorpion up at the 5th segment of the metasoma ( tail) apply just enough pressure to lift them but not harm them. Then make sure your lid is on tight before removing the scorpion ( you don't want your Leiurus Quinquestriatus running free in your house, and speaking from experience you don't want to get stung by them because it will be the worst 48 hrs of your life. ( I got stung by one of mine). Don't worry though, follow your own safety and don't relax on it and you won't ever get stung. Good luck with your new scorpion, hope to see a picture

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Hey everyone!

So, I am getting Leiurus quinquestriatus (adult 3 inches) at the end of June, and just had a few questions! First and foremost I am an experienced keeper of arachnids, and I'm an entomologist (although I studied Spider Venom and mygalomorph taxonomy not scorpions), but just having some trouble finding a comprehensive guide, and wanted to see if my proposed set up is ok:
- 4 gallon low tank, secure lid.
- 4 inches of sand / cocofiber mix (I believe it's one from a location that doesn't have complete sand based on the images I was sent)
- Some secure stones, a hide, some sturdy structures for climbing
- a small bottle cap for water, will be fed mostly crickets, maybe a rare large meal worm or super worm (they have a lot of fat so don't want to give them too much)
- an overhead low wattage light on a day night cycle that does have the ability to show its fluorescence at night but I won't leave this on all the time

Is there anything else I am missing? I want the tank to be completely set up and complete before the scorpion is there because after it is in the tank I will be extremely hands off, will be putting their food in through a smaller latch and only utilizing tongs if necessary for maintenance / care. Thank you so much in advance!

Leuirus love it hot 85F-95F some people even keep them upwards of 100F temperature gradient. They love to molt under 90+F temps. You can mist a small part of the terrarium innerwall and they drink the water droplets or provide them a bottlecap of water every two weeks.

 

[Dry Desert]

I hope you enjoy your new scorpion, before you know it you'll have more and be a pro. Scorpions are such an easy to care for animal, pretty low maintenance and overall cost of ownership is doable on most budgets. Once you get the basics, it's pretty easy. A friend of mine was wanting to get a scorpion because she sees all mine on my social media. I told her it's not complicated and they really don't require a ton of work and they can be 100% safe if you follow proper handling.

Ps. About every 6 months you want to change the substrate so you'll want to pull everything out. Get a clear deli cup with lid and place it in the enclosure and you can use your tongs to gently pick the scorpion up at the 5th segment of the metasoma ( tail) apply just enough pressure to lift them but not harm them. Then make sure your lid is on tight before removing the scorpion ( you don't want your Leiurus Quinquestriatus running free in your house, and speaking from experience you don't want to get stung by them because it will be the worst 48 hrs of your life. ( I got stung by one of mine). Don't worry though, follow your own safety and don't relax on it and you won't ever get stung. Good luck with your new scorpion, hope to see a picture

Do NOT pick up scorpions by their tails, especially the larger mature ones. Use a catch up method.

Also there's no need to change the substrate every six months, daily, or alternate day spot cleaning if fine.
Scorpions have dry firm poo, unless you are feeding yours fish !!

 

[MorbidArachnid]

Do NOT pick up scorpions by their tails, especially the larger mature ones. Use a catch up method.

Also there's no need to change the substrate every six months, daily, or alternate day spot cleaning if fine.
Scorpions have dry firm poo, unless you are feeding yours fish !!

Tailing is the best most stable method to control the stinger on a medically significant scorpion. It does not hurt them. Their tails are part of their abdomens, and are not liable to break. There are some extreme cases where tailing could be potentially harmful to the scorpion, I would not tail a scorpion that is especially small, because it's easy to apply too much pressure, nor would I tail a scorpion that was especially fat due to being gravid or being in premolt. Tailing (as with all handling, can be stressful for them which is another reason why they should not be tailed (or ideally moved or handled at all) while gravid or in premolt. There are also some scorpions where the thinness of their tails make this a more dangerous maneuver, such as with hadogenes or liocheles species. But for the vast majority of scorpions (and all medically significant scorpions where tailing is the best practice to control the stinger) tailing is a safe and effective way to move them from one container to another.

 

[Dry Desert]

Tailing is the best most stable method to control the stinger on a medically significant scorpion. It does not hurt them. Their tails are part of their abdomens, and are not liable to break. There are some extreme cases where tailing could be potentially harmful to the scorpion, I would not tail a scorpion that is especially small, because it's easy to apply too much pressure, nor would I tail a scorpion that was especially fat due to being gravid or being in premolt. Tailing (as with all handling, can be stressful for them which is another reason why they should not be tailed (or ideally moved or handled at all) while gravid or in premolt. There are also some scorpions where the thinness of their tails make this a more dangerous maneuver, such as with hadogenes or liocheles species. But for the vast majority of scorpions (and all medically significant scorpions where tailing is the best practice to control the stinger) tailing is a safe and effective way to move them from one container to another.

You've just mentioned quite a few cases where not recommended.
A catch up with tongs is quite safe and much less stressful.

You're telling me that an adult 8 inch Emperor is quite happy with being tailed.
The advice of non tailing applies to all.

 

[MorbidArachnid]

You've just mentioned quite a few cases where not recommended.
A catch up with tongs is quite safe and much less stressful.

You're telling me that an adult 8 inch Emperor is quite happy with being tailed.
The advice of non tailing applies to all.

First off Emps do not get 8", thats a strong "I'll believe it when I see it". Secondly I have tailed adult emps, like I said its very hard to damage their tails because the metasomal segments are made of one solid piece, so you would need to be applying a lot of force to crush them. There are some very specific cases where tailing is not recommended, but even these are more because it would be stressful to the scorpion. I haven't heard of a scorpions tail ever getting broken because of a tailing. Thirdly with specifically medically significant scorpions tailing is the safest way to handle them. You hold a venomous snake by the head, you hold a scorpion by the tail. It is the safest way to ensure you have control over the dangerous part of the animal.

 

[RMLeone]

First off Emps do not get 8", thats a strong "I'll believe it when I see it". Secondly I have tailed adult emps, like I said its very hard to damage their tails because the metasomal segments are made of one solid piece, so you would need to be applying a lot of force to crush them. There are some very specific cases where tailing is not recommended, but even these are more because it would be stressful to the scorpion. I haven't heard of a scorpions tail ever getting broken because of a tailing. Thirdly with specifically medically significant scorpions tailing is the safest way to handle them. You hold a venomous snake by the head, you hold a scorpion by the tail. It is the safest way to ensure you have control over the dangerous part of the animal.

My fattails get tailed because I need to control the metasoma to prevent stings and it works fine. With my small scorpions I use a scoop method to get under the scorpions then place them in the deli cup. A quick tailing isn't going to cause any significant issues. I use a couple methods depending upon my individual scorpions.

 

[Dry Desert]

First off Emps do not get 8", thats a strong "I'll believe it when I see it". Secondly I have tailed adult emps, like I said its very hard to damage their tails because the metasomal segments are made of one solid piece, so you would need to be applying a lot of force to crush them. There are some very specific cases where tailing is not recommended, but even these are more because it would be stressful to the scorpion. I haven't heard of a scorpions tail ever getting broken because of a tailing. Thirdly with specifically medically significant scorpions tailing is the safest way to handle them. You hold a venomous snake by the head, you hold a scorpion by the tail. It is the safest way to ensure you have control over the dangerous part of the animal.

Well I've had 2 females one exactly 8 ins, the other a fraction less. So before you spout your views have some credibility involved.

You hold a venomous snake by the head AFTER it's been restrained, probably by hooking or tailing it first.

The way I've always moved venomous scorpions is by using a very large metal kitchen type spoon with metal handle. Done in a flash with no stress involved.

Whereas the tail may not be damaged in some cases, the sensory hairs could be.

 

[MorbidArachnid]

Well I've had 2 females one exactly 8 ins, the other a fraction less. So before you spout your views have some credibility involved.

You hold a venomous snake by the head AFTER it's been restrained, probably by hooking or tailing it first.

The way I've always moved venomous scorpions is by using a very large metal kitchen type spoon with metal handle. Done in a flash with no stress involved.

Whereas the tail may not be damaged in some cases, the sensory hairs could be.

Do you have pics of them? I'm not saying it's impossible but most hobby Emperors were collected in the Northern area of their range in Ghana, which tend to be smaller than the ones collected more south towards the Cameroon border. There's a loose hobby distinction between "savannah" form emps and "forest" form emps, the Lorenzo paper includes a discussion about the difference in body size across their native range as a response to Lourenco who was comparing the sizes of Pandinus imperator to a species he described as Pandinus camerounensis. This paper says Pandinus imperator get up to 180mm in length (about 7 inches) but the two specimens he sites are 154 and 163mm.

Here's the applicable snippet from the Lorenzo paper. Like I said, I will believe it when I see it.

Redefinition and Systematic Revision of the East African Scorpion Genus Pandinoides (Scorpiones: Scorpionidae) With Critique of the Taxonomy of Pandinus, Sensu Lato

The scorpion fauna of East Africa, encompassing Burundi, Kenya, Tanzania, Rwanda, and Uganda, is more diverse than those of West and Central Africa, but a systematic survey has never been conducted and the distributions of its species remain poorly understood. A recent opportunity to examine two...

bioone.org

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Band-15-.-Juli-2014-Nr-.-192-Further-considerations-Mitteilungen-Louren%C3%A7o/9b3b00655c45c279aa582f2735d40f06fa7447d1

Edit: Found a paper on the difference in sizes among forest vs savannah populations of Pandinus imperator. The sizes are only prosoma + mesosoma, but even then the largest female from the forest population was just over 80mm. We know the tail isn't that much if at all longer than the body for female emps, so max of just over 160mm, probably up to 170mm.

https://britishspiders.org.uk/system/files/library/110404.pdf

Links to the two papers in question. I've also never noticed any damage to sensory hairs. While it's true snakes are grabbed by the head after they're restrained, the point still stands that controlling the venom apparatus is crucial to personal safety. I'm also not advocating you tail a scorpion with your fingers, if you use forceps there's no risk to getting tagged before you can restrain the animal. To be clear, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't cup a scorpion, nor am I advocating dragging around a scorpion by the tail, but to say that tailing is dangerous to the scorpion is inaccurate, and to say "do NOT" tail a scorpion is ignoring that this is the best way to avoid getting stung. I use the spoon method to move very small scorpions, ones that are too small to get tailed, such as 2i babies. This method is great for smaller scorpions because they can't find purchase on the metal, and tend to just run in place in the divot of the spoon. I would not personally use this method with a larger scorpion, as you would need a much larger spoon to ensure the scorpion cannot reach the lip of the spoon to find purchase to get away. I've also had a 2i T stigmurus who managed to climb out of the spoon while I was in the middle of moving her, luckily I was also using a secondary containment or she would've been on the floor. As far as the animals stress level goes, moving containers even in a catch cup can freak them out and they will try to escape, usually mine tend to be really bolty when in a new enclosure or space and will glass dance on the sides of the container, or if they're on a spoon they'll run in place trying to escape. The stress levels seem about the same, which is why moving and handling scorpions should be done as minimally as possible as a general rule.

Again, to be clear, we're talking about a quick tail to lift a scorpion from one container to another using forceps, and while you definitely can use a catch cup if you want it is not accurate to say that you *shouldn't* ever tail a scorpion, especially for a medically significant one.

 

[RMLeone]

Do you have pics of them? I'm not saying it's impossible but most hobby Emperors were collected in the Northern area of their range in Ghana, which tend to be smaller than the ones collected more south towards the Cameroon border. There's a loose hobby distinction between "savannah" form emps and "forest" form emps, the Lorenzo paper includes a discussion about the difference in body size across their native range as a response to Lourenco who was comparing the sizes of Pandinus imperator to a species he described as Pandinus camerounensis. This paper says Pandinus imperator get up to 180mm in length (about 7 inches) but the two specimens he sites are 154 and 163mm.
View attachment 475265
Here's the applicable snippet from the Lorenzo paper. Like I said, I will believe it when I see it.

Redefinition and Systematic Revision of the East African Scorpion Genus Pandinoides (Scorpiones: Scorpionidae) With Critique of the Taxonomy of Pandinus, Sensu Lato

The scorpion fauna of East Africa, encompassing Burundi, Kenya, Tanzania, Rwanda, and Uganda, is more diverse than those of West and Central Africa, but a systematic survey has never been conducted and the distributions of its species remain poorly understood. A recent opportunity to examine two...

bioone.org

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Band-15-.-Juli-2014-Nr-.-192-Further-considerations-Mitteilungen-Louren%C3%A7o/9b3b00655c45c279aa582f2735d40f06fa7447d1

Links to the two papers in question. I've also never noticed any damage to sensory hairs. While it's true snakes are grabbed by the head after they're restrained, the point still stands that controlling the venom apparatus is crucial to personal safety. I'm also not advocating you tail a scorpion with your fingers, if you use forceps there's no risk to getting tagged before you can restrain the animal. To be clear, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't cup a scorpion, nor am I advocating dragging around a scorpion by the tail, but to say that tailing is dangerous to the scorpion is inaccurate, and to say "do NOT" tail a scorpion is ignoring that this is the best way to avoid getting stung. I use the spoon method to move very small scorpions, ones that are too small to get tailed, such as 2i babies. This method is great for smaller scorpions because they can't find purchase on the metal, and tend to just run in place in the divot of the spoon. I would not personally use this method with a larger scorpion, as you would need a much larger spoon to ensure the scorpion cannot reach the lip of the spoon to find purchase to get away. I've also had a 2i T stigmurus who managed to climb out of the spoon while I was in the middle of moving her, luckily I was also using a secondary containment or she would've been on the floor. As far as the animals stress level goes, moving containers even in a catch cup can freak them out and they will try to escape, usually mine tend to be really bolty when in a new enclosure or space and will glass dance on the sides of the container, or if they're on a spoon they'll run in place trying to escape. The stress levels seem about the same, which is why moving and handling scorpions should be done as minimally as possible as a general rule.

Again, to be clear, we're talking about a quick tail to lift a scorpion from one container to another using forceps, and while you definitely can use a catch cup if you want it is not accurate to say that you *shouldn't* ever tail a scorpion, especially for a medically significant one.

I've found the best way for my big fattails is tailing while my thinner metasomal scorpions such as my Leiurus Quinquestriatus I use a scoop method. For me using the cup method puts my hands way to close than I want to be to the business end of a scorpion that's angry. I've already gotten stung by my baby LQ when it attempted to crawl out and I instinctively put my hand in it's way to block it without really thinking. So now I don't want my hands anywhere near my scorpions. I also learned to use a deep dish glass casserole as a secondary layer incase accidental escape from the 1st one. I don't use bigger beta tank until they reach maturity so while they grow I give them plastic tubs adjusted to size so I can ensure they successfully eat.

 

[Dry Desert]

Do you have pics of them? I'm not saying it's impossible but most hobby Emperors were collected in the Northern area of their range in Ghana, which tend to be smaller than the ones collected more south towards the Cameroon border. There's a loose hobby distinction between "savannah" form emps and "forest" form emps, the Lorenzo paper includes a discussion about the difference in body size across their native range as a response to Lourenco who was comparing the sizes of Pandinus imperator to a species he described as Pandinus camerounensis. This paper says Pandinus imperator get up to 180mm in length (about 7 inches) but the two specimens he sites are 154 and 163mm.
View attachment 475265
Here's the applicable snippet from the Lorenzo paper. Like I said, I will believe it when I see it.

Redefinition and Systematic Revision of the East African Scorpion Genus Pandinoides (Scorpiones: Scorpionidae) With Critique of the Taxonomy of Pandinus, Sensu Lato

The scorpion fauna of East Africa, encompassing Burundi, Kenya, Tanzania, Rwanda, and Uganda, is more diverse than those of West and Central Africa, but a systematic survey has never been conducted and the distributions of its species remain poorly understood. A recent opportunity to examine two...

bioone.org

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Band-15-.-Juli-2014-Nr-.-192-Further-considerations-Mitteilungen-Louren%C3%A7o/9b3b00655c45c279aa582f2735d40f06fa7447d1

Edit: Found a paper on the difference in sizes among forest vs savannah populations of Pandinus imperator. The sizes are only prosoma + mesosoma, but even then the largest female from the forest population was just over 80mm. We know the tail isn't that much if at all longer than the body for female emps, so max of just over 160mm, probably up to 170mm.

https://britishspiders.org.uk/system/files/library/110404.pdf

Links to the two papers in question. I've also never noticed any damage to sensory hairs. While it's true snakes are grabbed by the head after they're restrained, the point still stands that controlling the venom apparatus is crucial to personal safety. I'm also not advocating you tail a scorpion with your fingers, if you use forceps there's no risk to getting tagged before you can restrain the animal. To be clear, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't cup a scorpion, nor am I advocating dragging around a scorpion by the tail, but to say that tailing is dangerous to the scorpion is inaccurate, and to say "do NOT" tail a scorpion is ignoring that this is the best way to avoid getting stung. I use the spoon method to move very small scorpions, ones that are too small to get tailed, such as 2i babies. This method is great for smaller scorpions because they can't find purchase on the metal, and tend to just run in place in the divot of the spoon. I would not personally use this method with a larger scorpion, as you would need a much larger spoon to ensure the scorpion cannot reach the lip of the spoon to find purchase to get away. I've also had a 2i T stigmurus who managed to climb out of the spoon while I was in the middle of moving her, luckily I was also using a secondary containment or she would've been on the floor. As far as the animals stress level goes, moving containers even in a catch cup can freak them out and they will try to escape, usually mine tend to be really bolty when in a new enclosure or space and will glass dance on the sides of the container, or if they're on a spoon they'll run in place trying to escape. The stress levels seem about the same, which is why moving and handling scorpions should be done as minimally as possible as a general rule.

Again, to be clear, we're talking about a quick tail to lift a scorpion from one container to another using forceps, and while you definitely can use a catch cup if you want it is not accurate to say that you *shouldn't* ever tail a scorpion, especially for a medically significant one.

I'm not talking about the Emperor's currently available today from limited areas due to the CITES ban.
My first experiences with scorpions came in early 1979 whilst in the Middle East and was able to wild study and collect.
When I returned to the UK , late '80s I started keeping Emperors.
At this time they were all WC and imported from all regions of Africa, and most were huge.
Today, like most things in the hobby, are completely different due to major bans on most exporting countries since CITES.

Regarding tailing scorpions I learnt many years ago that using tongs was bad, even rubbed tipped ones, even worse,as you have no idea exactly how much pressure is being applied when squeezing two pieces of metal together.
As mentioned, I used to use the very large deep metal spoons that chefs use, the ones with holes are better because the Scorpio holds onto the holes and doesn't attempt to climb out.
Just how I did things long ago.

 

[MorbidArachnid]

I'm not talking about the Emperor's currently available today from limited areas due to the CITES ban.
My first experiences with scorpions came in early 1979 whilst in the Middle East and was able to wild study and collect.
When I returned to the UK , late '80s I started keeping Emperors.
At this time they were all WC and imported from all regions of Africa, and most were huge.
Today, like most things in the hobby, are completely different due to major bans on most exporting countries since CITES.

Regarding tailing scorpions I learnt many years ago that using tongs was bad, even rubbed tipped ones, even worse,as you have no idea exactly how much pressure is being applied when squeezing two pieces of metal together.
As mentioned, I used to use the very large deep metal spoons that chefs use, the ones with holes are better because the Scorpio holds onto the holes and doesn't attempt to climb out.
Just how I did things long ago.

I actually just did a bit of a deep dive on Emperor scorpion sizes because of this. So in the CITIES paper it cites them as being "up to 200mm".
https://cites.org/sites/default/files/eng/cop/09/prop/E09-Prop-63_64_65_Pandinus.PDF

But this claim is unsourced. However the Casper, 1985 source is from here:
https://dn790002.ca.archive.org/0/items/biostor-214377/biostor-214377.pdf

When the largest scorpion used for this paper was 17cm.
Additionally two papers by Rossi have a specimen that is 180mm.
https://ia802507.us.archive.org/0/items/onychium-10-010-031/onychium-10-010-031.pdf
https://www.european-arachnology.org/esa/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/AM49_47-54_Rossi.pdf

What's interesting to note is that the first paper, published in 2014, actually cites them as being up to 230mm.

We can see he's using specimens from ARPC, MHNG, and MSNB.
Also from this paper is the measurements for the ARPC specimen, here:

And from the MHNG specimen, here:

This specimen is the specimen he also uses in the 2015 paper, here:

The 2015 paper doesn't give a size range for imperator, but in the material examined the specimen from MSNB is no longer included:

The first Rossi paper also seems to be what they're citing here for saying P. imperator gets between 107-230mm.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...eppes_of_Burkina_Faso_Scorpiones_Scorpionidae
This paper is also interesting because it mentions the difference in sizes across the different biomes of their native range, with the Savannah form from Ghana and Togo being markedly smaller than the Forest form emperors.



They also state specifically they were looking at smaller sized, semi-arid locality emperors, which is why I think the 230mm number is from Rossi's first paper.
https://britishspiders.org.uk/system/files/library/110404.pdf
This paper also specifically measures the difference between forest and savannah locality emperors, and though they only measure the prosoma and mesosoma the largest individual here is just over 80mm. Assuming the tail is not that much longer if at all longer than the body, that would still only put them in the 160-170mm range.

There's also this paper where he also talks about the differences in sizes across their native range, but also only cites them at being up to 180mm (though the specific specimen discussed is 163mm and this author suspects it was misidentified).
file:///C:/Users/zbrbgq/Downloads/B407.pdf


So to summarize, the max size of 180mm seems to come from the Rossi papers for one of the particular individuals from Liberia, which would put it among the larger "forest" variety emperors, and even this seems to be a rather large outlier, with most measured specimens reaching between 160-170mm on the larger end. The 200mm number appears to come from CITIES, and I cannot find the specimen or any reference to the specimen they used to get that number, and the 230mm number might come from a specimen from Rossi's first paper from MSNB that has no data associated with it. Again I would like to see any evidence, published measurements, or a picture of a specimen even reaching above 190mm. Do agree most of the emps currently in the hobby are from the smaller savannah populations, which is why all the emps I see in the US are 4-5". The largest emp I've ever personally seen a picture of next to a ruler was just over 6".

Re the tailing, it's definitely fine to cup if you don't feel comfortable with controlling the pressure you're applying using tongs, but again saying you shouldn't use tongs ever because it's harmful to them is unfounded.