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- Nov 10, 2005
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its a rigged incubator I made based on what I have seen on the boards. I used old hospital IV hoses and tube feeding pieces to create the plumbing. I have an egg sack in there currently - we'll see how it works
Latrodectus (Theridiidae) Picture Thread
- Thread starter Kugellager
- Start date
oh!
i will have to check that out. i will search for the thread. i have about 6 or 7 sacs in vials now, about to hatch i think. i have been letting the moms tend them until they turn really dark, and then i take them out for the last few days. usually, i cut open the sac. however, the yields have not all been great, so i am open to trying the incubator for after i take them out.
do you just let them hatch naturally then? i was not sure about that. do then need the mom to help them out? or do they just get out by themselves when the time is right?:?
i will have to check that out. i will search for the thread. i have about 6 or 7 sacs in vials now, about to hatch i think. i have been letting the moms tend them until they turn really dark, and then i take them out for the last few days. usually, i cut open the sac. however, the yields have not all been great, so i am open to trying the incubator for after i take them out.
do you just let them hatch naturally then? i was not sure about that. do then need the mom to help them out? or do they just get out by themselves when the time is right?:?
cool shelves BTW!
mackids, that was nice of your significant other to make those. they are great. did she fabricate those from scratch? you are a lucky guy. my setups are more rube goldberg type contraptions. the animals seem happy, but they are not much for viewing.
mackids, that was nice of your significant other to make those. they are great. did she fabricate those from scratch? you are a lucky guy. my setups are more rube goldberg type contraptions. the animals seem happy, but they are not much for viewing.
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- Nov 10, 2005
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To be honest this will be my first experience also. There are probably others on here with more experience in the breeding department. In the mean time I am just keeping the area at about 80 degrees with an injection of water through the plumbing every week. Also the eggsack was given to me by the Bug Museum I work at so it wasn't produced by any I tend to, therefore I do not know when they were seperated from the mother.
My GF made the wood part with the green back ground and yes she built it from scratch! The plastic containers I use are Beanie Baby containers with a few holes drilled into them.
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Some new pics...
black morph tred slings (L.lugubris?) forced tweezer hatching. Glad i did this, because I would have lost these like the first two sacs.
L.v.
same girl a little older... almost there..
L.m.
L.p.
New enclosures coming. trying to document these thru jar glass is a drag.
L.h.
I love how she won't let go of her new sac with her rear legs while eating. Primordial love or instinctive coveting...called it what you will.
One of my first true attempts in selective breeding. Hesp from Arizona that had a nice brown abdomen but average size. Bred with male found with my local giants. This is one I've kept from that pairing. She is larger than mom, but maintained the brown color. No markings, just hershey chocolate.
I collected on the first of the year ...only the hardiest hesps are left. There has been a good cold spell ...near or at freezing a couple of nights and weeks of sub 40s.
I have great hopes for this gal. Great color.
Found this Theridion(?) boy hiding from the cold in a dried leaf about 3 inches from where I found the above sub-adult hesp. Looked high and low for a female. No luck. I need a female. Any ID opinions?
Laos...
One of my boyz
This one is a molt older now... i need some new pics of her.
I call her Stubs. During an early molt she had troubles with her rear leg. She almost died, but i snipped her leg and hand fed her for a few molts otherwise she was not able to catch her prey. Her leg looks bad, but it grew back and she can use it just fine now.
I almost snuffed this one out...glad I didn't.
an adult ..one or two molts away..
another...
This one I used to test Laos hunting skills right after sling seperation. I put a few slings in large (bulk size) pickle jars with some 1/4" hardware cloth (square mesh). Two didnt catch food ...both turned out to be males after having to hand feed them...pathetic hunters when given too much space. But, this one caught her first pinhead and some flys on her own and then that was that...she made the entire jar hers and grew up there.
Overall these Laos are turing out to be fantastic display animals. Easy going...a little shy, but wonderful daytime hunters.
S.g.
This girl just hated being forced to pose on the grape stems ...stupid human.
But, she's a pretty gal
A.tepidariorum
I think these are cool display animals. They are little delicate version of the "widow". The cold usually kills them, but I got lucky and saved this one a few months ago. Layed two sacs ...which made my day because even though they are very common, I have only caught/seen one male.
S.bipuncta
Enclosures are coming soon for most of my smaller gems. You widow and other true spider keepers may find this silly, but for me, these are as cool to have as any the above. Thrilled because the fem is giving me sacs and I have slings. The adult males seem to be homebodies and MAY live as long as the females (trying to find more info regarding this). The males web up almost as heavily as the females and they take prey twice their size. Widow males are such wimps. These boyz on the otherhand have big palps and actually act like it. Had a male and female cohabing it for awhile, but I may not have fed them enough because one ate the other. And get this...i found the male chewing down the larger female! A little sweet revenge in the Theridiidae world.
black morph tred slings (L.lugubris?) forced tweezer hatching. Glad i did this, because I would have lost these like the first two sacs.
L.v.
same girl a little older... almost there..
L.m.
L.p.
New enclosures coming. trying to document these thru jar glass is a drag.
L.h.
I love how she won't let go of her new sac with her rear legs while eating. Primordial love or instinctive coveting...called it what you will.
One of my first true attempts in selective breeding. Hesp from Arizona that had a nice brown abdomen but average size. Bred with male found with my local giants. This is one I've kept from that pairing. She is larger than mom, but maintained the brown color. No markings, just hershey chocolate.
I collected on the first of the year ...only the hardiest hesps are left. There has been a good cold spell ...near or at freezing a couple of nights and weeks of sub 40s.
I have great hopes for this gal. Great color.
Found this Theridion(?) boy hiding from the cold in a dried leaf about 3 inches from where I found the above sub-adult hesp.
Looked high and low for a female. No luck. I need a female. Any ID opinions?
Laos...
One of my boyz
This one is a molt older now... i need some new pics of her.
I call her Stubs. During an early molt she had troubles with her rear leg. She almost died, but i snipped her leg and hand fed her for a few molts otherwise she was not able to catch her prey. Her leg looks bad, but it grew back and she can use it just fine now.
I almost snuffed this one out...glad I didn't.
an adult ..one or two molts away..
another...
This one I used to test Laos hunting skills right after sling seperation. I put a few slings in large (bulk size) pickle jars with some 1/4" hardware cloth (square mesh). Two didnt catch food ...both turned out to be males after having to hand feed them...pathetic hunters when given too much space. But, this one caught her first pinhead and some flys on her own and then that was that...she made the entire jar hers and grew up there.
Overall these Laos are turing out to be fantastic display animals. Easy going...a little shy, but wonderful daytime hunters.
S.g.
This girl just hated being forced to pose on the grape stems ...stupid human.
But, she's a pretty gal
A.tepidariorum
I think these are cool display animals. They are little delicate version of the "widow". The cold usually kills them, but I got lucky and saved this one a few months ago. Layed two sacs ...which made my day because even though they are very common, I have only caught/seen one male.
S.bipuncta
Enclosures are coming soon for most of my smaller gems. You widow and other true spider keepers may find this silly, but for me, these are as cool to have as any the above. Thrilled because the fem is giving me sacs and I have slings. The adult males seem to be homebodies and MAY live as long as the females (trying to find more info regarding this). The males web up almost as heavily as the females and they take prey twice their size. Widow males are such wimps. These boyz on the otherhand have big palps and actually act like it.
Had a male and female cohabing it for awhile, but I may not have fed them enough because one ate the other. And get this...i found the male chewing down the larger female! A little sweet revenge in the Theridiidae world.
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- Jun 8, 2006
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Thanks btw. Its been a crash course. Just starting to reep the benefits of my mistakes.
As for the revs ...I am not necessarily sure if they are truely revivensis. I need to find a good description.
Go ahead... take your shot and ID these babes.
I have some held-backs and a bunch of picky eaters. This one just ate to her hearts content.
Slings are very close if not the same as my new black tred slings ...though, I did not have a good lens back when the revs first hatched, so the few shots I have are poor to use for careful comparison against the tred slings.
BTW... the rev sack was very elongated. But with only one sac to look at and the fact that even hesps now and then make irregular sacs, I can only use this as a weak clue. Anyone with images of rev sac(s), please post or PM them to me.
One of the juv/slings... 1/4in legspan give er take.
Subs look interesting ... This rev sub-adult still has much of its markings ...compared to the sub-adult treds. I got my treds one molt away from adult (I believe one may have molted twice) , so I cannot make a good comparison and my documentation was in the same state as i mentioned above. The fragmentation of the dots was shared by the two.
This adult was powerfed bigtime. She is so ready.
Treds finale molt revealed heavy velvet hairs making them flat black also. Body shape seems dead on too, but I have not given them a good side by side long looksy. Anyway...really beautiful spider. I will inbreed this one if I can raise some males (they are starting to show...very late bloomers)
Moving on...
Geo aging nicely!
Natures warning sign...
She and another were nice light silver adults and stayed that way until the last few months, during which they darkened like dipping them in chocolate.
My experience with geos is limited to keeping a couple some time back. They were earthy tan/grey...maybe a bit more olive and they retained markings throughout their adulthood. They did darken some, but not to this xtreme.
Has anyone kept the light silver goes which kept that tone into old age?
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I had some interesting things on L revivensis, about it's cobwebs, that they make a funnel or something and use dead plant litter and prey husks to camouflage themselves from predators. A blind if I understand correctly. Also, in high density populations in the arid wilds, females frequently migrate. But as far as a positive ID, that's tough. Big and black!
In these pics these subadults have white markings like L tredecimguttatus which the latter species derives it's scientific name from that fact -- 13 white markings before adulthood.
In these pics these subadults have white markings like L tredecimguttatus which the latter species derives it's scientific name from that fact -- 13 white markings before adulthood.
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- Aug 15, 2006
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I like how you use the chicken wire. i assume you did that to encourage them to build the funnel in a certain direction. those pallidus pictures are awesome! also, love the revivensis shots by buthus.
my experience is that the mactans, variolus and bishopi (possibly hesperus also) build similar tube/funnel webs with remote retreats, but i have never seen them incorporate the debris. the research article regarding pallidus and revivensis webs/debris (forgot the authors, but i think buthus posted a reference to it the other day) explored the use of the debris both for protection from heat and from predators (or was that two different articles?). it seems odd that the other species have not developed this strategy, if it is for protection from predators, rather than from heat of the sun. unless it is the behavior of that particular predator bird (shrike?) in the region of the pallidus and revivensis habitats that has given rise to this mechanism.
i should've asked for a camera for christmas!
my experience is that the mactans, variolus and bishopi (possibly hesperus also) build similar tube/funnel webs with remote retreats, but i have never seen them incorporate the debris. the research article regarding pallidus and revivensis webs/debris (forgot the authors, but i think buthus posted a reference to it the other day) explored the use of the debris both for protection from heat and from predators (or was that two different articles?). it seems odd that the other species have not developed this strategy, if it is for protection from predators, rather than from heat of the sun. unless it is the behavior of that particular predator bird (shrike?) in the region of the pallidus and revivensis habitats that has given rise to this mechanism.
i should've asked for a camera for christmas!
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- Nov 22, 2005
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Here's some L. menavodi love- sorry for the bad pic quality. Her plastic cube isn't the cleanest...
you can see his embolus in this shot:
you can see his embolus in this shot:
I love these pics. According to that link I posted yesterday. L. pallidus and L. revivensis make a multi-layered silk funnel retreat. Good thing to keep in mind.
Here is that link, click here.
Important reference to include in such a sticky.
L. hesperus will utilize the environment for a retreat (i.e. a hole, a crack, any tight space it can retreat into or behind, etc.) or simply advantage itself behind plenty of irregular silk lines.
Here is that link, click here.
Important reference to include in such a sticky.
L. hesperus will utilize the environment for a retreat (i.e. a hole, a crack, any tight space it can retreat into or behind, etc.) or simply advantage itself behind plenty of irregular silk lines.
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Ahhhhhh. Megalon, that was YOU that posted the link to the article. that was weird, i had just read it the day before. very interesting and illuminating. there is another interesting one comparing the web construction of several families of spiders, including therididae (sp?), represented by Latrodectus. i will try to come up with the link, but the one you reference was really more interesting. Then to see those great pictures from Splintercell with the pallidus in the funnel was fantastic and timely.
it is only recently that i notices the tunnel shaped web and retreat that some widows make (only had hesperus before) and started to build my habitats to facilitate a retreat and to guide the shape of the tunnel web. mostly, it was an attempt to keep the spider away from the opening and to get the opening of the web facing towards the opening of the container, so that i could conveniently drop roaches down the tunnel (side opening cubes now). works great with bishopi and variolus. trying mactans now. then i was going to try to make an artificial hole for some hesperus i have, to see what they do with that. i am so glad to get away from quart jars and having them hide right under the lid. much easier to feed and the web doesn't get repeatedly disturbed.
it is only recently that i notices the tunnel shaped web and retreat that some widows make (only had hesperus before) and started to build my habitats to facilitate a retreat and to guide the shape of the tunnel web. mostly, it was an attempt to keep the spider away from the opening and to get the opening of the web facing towards the opening of the container, so that i could conveniently drop roaches down the tunnel (side opening cubes now). works great with bishopi and variolus. trying mactans now. then i was going to try to make an artificial hole for some hesperus i have, to see what they do with that. i am so glad to get away from quart jars and having them hide right under the lid. much easier to feed and the web doesn't get repeatedly disturbed.
Yes, L. hesperus are great cobweb constructors. Building high, low, and wide. If given opportunity they will utilize the whole space allowed them.
That's a smart idea to build them a retreat and make sure there is no decor approximately below the habitat top or lid.
Splintercell's did have uncanny timing and I love that first pic in particularly, revealing how the silk funnel looks and how the L. pallidus uses it. Maybe that can give us a general idea based on descriptions in that link I posted on how L. revivensis cobwebs basically appear.
That's a smart idea to build them a retreat and make sure there is no decor approximately below the habitat top or lid.
Splintercell's did have uncanny timing and I love that first pic in particularly, revealing how the silk funnel looks and how the L. pallidus uses it. Maybe that can give us a general idea based on descriptions in that link I posted on how L. revivensis cobwebs basically appear.
Oh, another shot of the L. pallidus fibrous multi-layered silk retreat sans the chicken wire. C/O boardmember buthus
the other article regarding theridiid spider webs indicated that Latrodectus webs were less stereotypical than the webs of orb-web weavers of the same family (more evolved spiders). i take this to mean possible more adaptable to the given environment. possibly, given the same container, many of the widow species might weave closely similar webs, i.e. remote retreat, funnel/tube-shaped web, gum-footed lines. my geometricus, variolus, and bishopi all seem to weave in a similar pattern. i will be interested to see what a hesperus does with the containers i use for my variolus and bishopi. in quart jars, their webs just look like random cobwebs. they also are less timid and seem fine without a retreat. whereas my geometricus are constantly stressed if they don't have a secure retreat.
waiting for more beanie baby cubes to arrive to continue my experiments. I love webs!
i owe the original insight about providing a retreat to buthus. i was inspire by his posts about his cool widow cages. mine are nowhere near as nice. and the lucite sucks for getting pictures. with the containers on their sides so that i can shoot pictures through the open end, maybe i can finally get some good pictures.
waiting for more beanie baby cubes to arrive to continue my experiments. I love webs!
i owe the original insight about providing a retreat to buthus. i was inspire by his posts about his cool widow cages. mine are nowhere near as nice. and the lucite sucks for getting pictures. with the containers on their sides so that i can shoot pictures through the open end, maybe i can finally get some good pictures.
re buthus's pallidus photo
that photo of the pallidus retreat is awesome. i am curious how long the spider has been making that web. it is very thick and seems multi-layered. is that just the result of the spider adding to it for a long time?
that photo of the pallidus retreat is awesome. i am curious how long the spider has been making that web. it is very thick and seems multi-layered. is that just the result of the spider adding to it for a long time?
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You are looking up into a jar. She has been in there for a couple of weeks when that pic was taken.
They fool you into thinking it is a funnel, but it's more of a pocket structured in the same way that the rest of the web is, but tighter. Other widows do this in some form or fashion, but not as easily noticed.
You know, L hesperus most of the time uses the geography to it's best advantage. But there are exceptions like the ones I see and sometimes catch at work have to make their web on a perpendicular vertical surface and create webs between the spaces in masonry. That's when I see something of a resemblence to a funnel retreat but more accurately described it is a pocket of layered silk.