Lampropelma carpenteri / Lampropelma nigerrimum

[DonLouchese]

Hello there,

I'd like to open a thread for a discussion about Lampropelma spp. and so my questions are the following.

Firstly I'd like to know , out of curiousity how big in DLS can Lampropelma carpenteri actually get , because the information online is quite confusing. I've watched a few videos about them , also the ones where Guy Tansley and his crew found it and researched on it in 2018. The information online , which there isn't alot is actually proving this species can get 8"+ also some are pointing towards the 9-9.5" mark. Is that something that can be approved by someone here - who has actually an AF. That would actually bring the spider to the size of Poecilotheria spp. which is almost unbelievable.

Secondly I'd like to ask how obvious is the difference between the actual Lampropelma nigerrimum and P. arboricola - we have some of the arboricola , my friend as well had succesful pairings. So I'm really interested if there is actually visual difference between the species , as far as I've watched the media and revisions there is little to none. Which actually brings me to thinking a lot of people might cross breed this species - almost like the case of B. smithi and B. hamorii which a regular tarantula keeper couldn't tell the difference. (The darker carapace on hamorii for example - when actually the specimens differ from one to another - you get to the point where a 100% B. hamorii has the same amount of the "dark carapace" as a 100% B. smithi) - Jokes aside I'd really like to know the actual difference between them.

I've seen a thread about it ;

Lampropelma Niggerimum and Lampropelma sp. Borneo Black difference?

Sooo I just really really mixed up with this one. I bought a sling that said to be a L. Niggerimum (or known also as Phormingochilus Arboricola for what I’ve search in the internet:$) and I really just don’t get it, what is the difference between that and L. Sp. Borneo Black? Despite from where...

arachnoboards.com

But it doesn't really confirm it enough for me to actually tell.

Thank you on the answeres I'm sure a lot of people looking into this species will appriciate it as well.

Best regards,

Don

 

[Arachnophobphile]

Lampropelma carpenteri I believe gets the largest out of all the genus.

I've read 9 inches dls as possible max. There's not much info. I was looking at this one I found for sale and tried finding info on it. I found one place listing max size but how accurate it is I do not know.

They are also lightning fast and highly defensive. If you don't have experience working with teleporting arboreals then this T is not for you.

Lampropelma nigerrimum can be the same in disposition but do not reach the sizes of carpenteri.

 

[A guy]

I've heard people refer to carpenteri as the "true" biggest arboreal species. However, I have not seen one that's as big as or bigger than large specimens of Poecilotheria rufilata/ornata.

I mean some specimens could probably hit the 8-9" mark but very rare circumstances I would say.

 

[viper69]

I've heard people refer to carpenteri as the "true" biggest arboreal species. However, I have not seen one that's as big as or bigger than large specimens of Poecilotheria rufilata/ornata.

Same here! They remain kings for now.

 

[advan]

Hello there,

I'd like to open a thread for a discussion about Lampropelma spp. and so my questions are the following.

Firstly I'd like to know , out of curiousity how big in DLS can Lampropelma carpenteri actually get , because the information online is quite confusing. I've watched a few videos about them , also the ones where Guy Tansley and his crew found it and researched on it in 2018. The information online , which there isn't alot is actually proving this species can get 8"+ also some are pointing towards the 9-9.5" mark. Is that something that can be approved by someone here - who has actually an AF. That would actually bring the spider to the size of Poecilotheria spp. which is almost unbelievable.

Secondly I'd like to ask how obvious is the difference between the actual Lampropelma nigerrimum and P. arboricola - we have some of the arboricola , my friend as well had succesful pairings. So I'm really interested if there is actually visual difference between the species , as far as I've watched the media and revisions there is little to none. Which actually brings me to thinking a lot of people might cross breed this species - almost like the case of B. smithi and B. hamorii which a regular tarantula keeper couldn't tell the difference. (The darker carapace on hamorii for example - when actually the specimens differ from one to another - you get to the point where a 100% B. hamorii has the same amount of the "dark carapace" as a 100% B. smithi) - Jokes aside I'd really like to know the actual difference between them.

I've seen a thread about it ;

Lampropelma Niggerimum and Lampropelma sp. Borneo Black difference?

Sooo I just really really mixed up with this one. I bought a sling that said to be a L. Niggerimum (or known also as Phormingochilus Arboricola for what I’ve search in the internet:$) and I really just don’t get it, what is the difference between that and L. Sp. Borneo Black? Despite from where...

arachnoboards.com

But it doesn't really confirm it enough for me to actually tell.

Thank you on the answeres I'm sure a lot of people looking into this species will appriciate it as well.

Best regards,

Don

I never kept L. carpenteri but they are considered one of the largest asian arboreals along with P. rufilata and L. violaceopes. I would recommend searching threads by @syndicate he kept and bred them for years.

Mixing up L. nigerrimum and L. sp. "Borneo black" is possible. As adults they do look a like. Size is the main difference, L. nigerrimum maybe hit 6" and L. sp. "Borneo Black" can hit 8" and are a much bulkier spider. They are both sexually dimorphic at an early stage. 1"-1.5" for L. nigerrimum and 2"-3" for L. sp. "Borneo black." Also the carapace is much lighter on female L. nigerrimum before adulthood. See here >>>>>> https://arachnoboards.com/threads/lampropelma-sp-borneo-sexual-dimorphism.269803/

 

[DonLouchese]

Quite confused with one of the facts you've given. So L. sp. "Borneo black" is actually P. arboricola, that is correct right? Since as well L. sp. "Borneo black" is the same as L. nigerrimum arboricola which was after transfered to P. arboricola. I doubt this species can grow to 8-9" since we have mature females with succesful sacs that are maxed out on 7". (5years +)

I think a lot of the information about the size of these species is actually mistaken , that's why I've started asking if L. carpenteri can grow so much bigger than the arboricola itself.

Really confused and I think people are really overreacting on the size of these species but noone is actually keeping them.

As well tried searching but can't find any reports ;

from syndicate about Lampropelma , carpenteri , nigerrimum

The only person having probably adult female is @CEC maybe if he's up for an answere.

Regards,

Don

 

[Wolfram1]

i think most of the reports about the very large Lampropelma carpenteri specimens came from WC imports.

I do plan to get L. carpenteri in the future to see if they get as large as advertised, if i can find them...

In the meantime I do have 1.1 P. arboricola with the male maturing out recently, a faily small male, however the size difference is quite significant between the sexes, as seen in this example:

https://vogelspinnenforum.ch/wcf/index.php?attachment/12596-0ca3a848-73f6-4b76-8446-98e6ba6e5c23-jpg/

And they did indeed have a darker carapace compared to the pictures of L. nigerrimum linked above.

I general i have heard it said that Lampropelma are more leggy and thus get larger than their more stout counterparts

juvenile male P. arboricola:

0.0.1 Phormingochilus arboricola ~2,5" Specimen 2

• Wolfram1
• May 23, 2022
• arboricola lampropelma nigerrimum arboricola lampropelma sp. "borneo black" phormingochilus phormingochilus arboricola sp. "borneo black"

as pretty as they are now, i do hope to have some gorgeous black spiders soon :)

& mature male:


yes L. sp. 'Borneo Black' was also referred to as the subspecies L. nigerrimum arboricola and finally moved to a different genus altogether and described as Phormingochilus arboricola.

However while i do not disagree with it, i really do not understand how the revision paper of L. sp. "Borneo Black" was accepted as a valid species description.

These, do get quite large and i imagine 8" isnt too far off on average. My female however is still quite young so it remains to be seen how large it will get.

juvenile Female P. arboricola:

0.1 Phormingochilus arboricola ~3,5 to 4"

• Wolfram1
• Jul 17, 2023
• 3
• arboricola lampropelma sp. "borneo black" phormingochilus phormingochilus arboricola

shredded her exuvie again, but at this point i believe the sexual dimorphism excludes this from...

Lets hope we get some info from CEC in the meantime. :^)

 

[Mike Withrow]

NVM person above me posted a better explanation.
If you take time to read all the taxonomy papers for lampropelma and Omothymus and Phormingochilus and the most recent revisions. It all makes better sense.

I'm assuming you digest that information pretty well.

 

[advan]

Quite confused with one of the facts you've given. So L. sp. "Borneo black" is actually P. arboricola, that is correct right? Since as well L. sp. "Borneo black" is the same as L. nigerrimum arboricola which was after transfered to P. arboricola. I doubt this species can grow to 8-9" since we have mature females with succesful sacs that are maxed out on 7". (5years +)

I think a lot of the information about the size of these species is actually mistaken , that's why I've started asking if L. carpenteri can grow so much bigger than the arboricola itself.

Really confused and I think people are really overreacting on the size of these species but noone is actually keeping them.

As well tried searching but can't find any reports ;
View attachment 459471
from syndicate about Lampropelma , carpenteri , nigerrimum

The only person having probably adult female is @CEC maybe if he's up for an answere.

Regards,

Don

Hi Don, I'm not sure where you are confused? Yes, L. sp. "Borneo Black" is now P. arboricola. No where did I say they get 8"-9." I said up to 8". Why? Because the girl in the picture below was 7.75" at the time of that pairing. She molted a few times after that and I never measured her again. Didn't care to.

How do you think @CEC got into spiders and where his first ones came from?

But I'll shoot my brother a text and ask him to respond. -Chad

EDIT: Forget to mention plenty comes up with @syndicate and Lampropelma. But if you want L. carpenteri, they were referred to as Cyriopagopus sp. "Sulawesi Black" back when he was active on this site.

 

[DonLouchese]

Hi there,

thank you for the respond. I'm reading to many posts and topics about the Lampropelma species so I'm deep inside the burrow right now where I don't exactly even see the numbers anymore. But yeah multiple occasions people wrote 8-9" and so on. Maybe I missread it since the information is so vague on it. As I said only have 7" females that are on mature level for a long time now.

But I'd love to see if your brother can tell us about the carpenteri. Would much appriciate.

Thank you to everyone else as well on responses.

Cheers,

Don

 

[Mike Withrow]

Hi Don, I'm not sure where you are confused? Yes, L. sp. "Borneo Black" is now P. arboricola. No where did I say they get 8"-9." I said up to 8". Why? Because the girl in the picture below was 7.75" at the time of that pairing. She molted a few times after that and I never measured her again. Didn't care to.

How do you think @CEC got into spiders and where his first ones came from?

But I'll shoot my brother a text and ask him to respond. -Chad

EDIT: Forget to mention plenty comes up with syndicate and Lampropelma. But if you want L. carpenteri, they were referred to as Cyriopagopus sp. "Sulawesi Black" back when he was active on this site.

The Cyriopagopus name. I thought they were moved into Phormingochilus. And I have to admit that spider is none of any Phormingochilus genius I've seen.

 

[advan]

Hi there,

thank you for the respond. I'm reading to many posts and topics about the Lampropelma species so I'm deep inside the burrow right now where I don't exactly even see the numbers anymore. But yeah multiple occasions people wrote 8-9" and so on. Maybe I missread it since the information is so vague on it. As I said only have 7" females that are on mature level for a long time now.

But I'd love to see if your brother can tell us about the carpenteri. Would much appriciate.

Thank you to everyone else as well on responses.

Cheers,

Don

Hi Don, I'm not sure Chase has ever kept L. carpenteri. According to your quote:

Really confused and I think people are really overreacting on the size of these species but noone is actually keeping them.

I'm not sure why you are waiting for his input? Although, I did shoot him a text. That's why I referred you to @syndicate.

The Cyriopagopus name. I thought they were moved into Phormingochilus. And I have to admit that spider is none of any Phormingochilus genius I've seen.

Cyriopagopus before 2015 was considered an arboreal genus mainly until Jacobi/Smith 2015 moved them all over to Omothymus. Then Gabriel/Sherwood 2019 did a bunch of moving around again. The asian arboreal genera is a mess and I was hoping Volker von Wirth (@Theraphosid Research Team ) or some one as well versed in asian theraphosids would tackle it by now. Almost all genera of theraphosids need an in depth revision as the North American Aphonopelma got in 2016.

 

[Mike Withrow]

Cyriopagopus before 2015 was considered an arboreal genus mainly until Jacobi/Smith 2015 moved them all over to Omothymus. Then Gabriel/Sherwood 2019 did a bunch of moving around again. The asian arboreal genera is a mess and I was hoping Volker von Wirth (@Theraphosid Research Team ) or some one as well versed in asian theraphosids would tackle it by now. Almost all genera of theraphosids need an in depth revision as the North American Aphonopelma got in 2016.

Yes,I've read every paper published.

That picture is what intrigues me. I am from the start Asian spiders and because of a post from a well known member here sent me in a rabbit hole of pure goodness.

In terms of Phormingochilus and Cyriopagopus and a few others. That's a new one me .
And I'll take like ten of you have them because wow!

Like no joke at this very minute

 

[CEC]

Hi there,

thank you for the respond. I'm reading to many posts and topics about the Lampropelma species so I'm deep inside the burrow right now where I don't exactly even see the numbers anymore. But yeah multiple occasions people wrote 8-9" and so on. Maybe I missread it since the information is so vague on it. As I said only have 7" females that are on mature level for a long time now.

But I'd love to see if your brother can tell us about the carpenteri. Would much appriciate.

Thank you to everyone else as well on responses.

Cheers,

Don

I really have nothing to add here that hasn't already been covered'. I agree with Advan and Wolfram1 having raising all three species mentioned. Chad, I currently have a lone female carpenteri but she's a young adult (about 7") so ATM I can't really say how big carpenteri get. Although I too doubt they get any larger DLS than Poecilotheria ornata or rufilata. I take size claims with a grain of salt, unless it's next to a ruler or comes from a person that I trust that I know does the same.

Lampropelma carpenteri

 

[curtisgiganteus]

Lampropelma nigerrimum has a purple sheen under the right lighting and much denser setae on the legs. Average 6”

Lampropelma carpenteri look very similar to Phormingochilus arboricola but are much leggier and much larger. Think black Omothymus violaceopes. Average 7”+

Phormingochilus arboricola are black/dark grey spiders and don’t have any real color on them beyond the femurs which, post molt, may be more of a gunmetal washed over with black. Average 6”

 

[CEC]

Hi Don, I'm not sure Chase has ever kept L. carpenteri. According to your quote:


I'm not sure why you are waiting for his input? Although, I did shoot him a text. That's why I referred you to @syndicate.

Cyriopagopus before 2015 was considered an arboreal genus mainly until Jacobi/Smith 2015 moved them all over to Omothymus. Then Gabriel/Sherwood 2019 did a bunch of moving around again. The asian arboreal genera is a mess and I was hoping Volker von Wirth (@Theraphosid Research Team ) or some one as well versed in asian theraphosids would tackle it by now. Almost all genera of theraphosids need an in depth revision as the North American Aphonopelma got in 2016.

He's in the midst, ...

 

[l4nsky]

He's in the midst, ...
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My labelmaker and I await Ingo's publication .