Lacey Act 2022

[CJJon]

But I’m wondering if us here in the UK will suffer a knock-on effect (online retailers who have purchased captive bred from a US breeder, for example, would they be able to export these?)

Not a chance.

 

[HeartBum]

Not a chance.

Not a chance of affecting us or not a chance of exporting?

 

[LucN]

You should go read the election campaigns of all the major Canadian political parties from the past election... All of them include similar things to this amendment...

Seriously ?! Wow... Which means our Online vendors could also be prohibited to import new animals. Which means no new imports from Germany or US/Mexico. That's... not good.

Does this mean that most birds, such as Parakeets, Cockatiels and such will also be banned given they're not native to our countries ?

I'll have to find those election campaigns and have a read, then.

 

[CJJon]

Not a chance of affecting us or not a chance of exporting?

Exporting.

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

You guess should get your aphonopelma slings now before it’s to late. It could be a long ban. <edit>

Honestly with this ban, aphonopelma slings are the least of my concern lol. I've seen many acts like this, but this one seems to be the most concerning to this hobby.

shine and cannabis are illegal lots of places too - not a good way to live tbh but i get what you mean



this would effect virtually every animal that’s not native to the US or considered domesticated (which there exists no cat on earth who is domesticated so what this actually is supposed to mean who knows) - if i am understanding the bill correctly this would even include my beta fish as they’re endemic to Thailand and could be seen as “invasive”

Hopefully for this very reason the act is not passed. Their blanket statement might just come and bite them in the ass. I would hope so.

 

[Liquifin]

This is a lot to take in, but the way I interpret this is that if this does pass it is basically the end of the entire exotic pet trade/hobby. This sounds way too much for any and every exotic pet owner/hobbyists. I'm certain it's not just us Tarantula hobbyists, but probably also every other exotic pet hobbyists discussing this issue as well. I think everyone should bring every and all exotic pet trade owners, hobbyists, breeders, vendors, etc. together to do something about this unexpected situation.

 

[TylerFishman5675]

Hopefully for this very reason the act is not passed. Their blanket statement might just come and bite them in the ass. I would hope so.

Domesticated animals have done irrefutable damage to our ecosystem, through agriculture and invasive species. Not only domestic animals harm the environment (cats killing 2 billion song birds a year) but they have the real absolute ability to be harmful. Yet we are never going to ban cats or dogs (I wouldn’t want them to either!) Their are thousands of dog attacks in the U.S. each year, but how many tarantula attacks? Lol. THIS SHOULD BE UP TO THE STATE TO RECON IF THE ANIMALS ARE HARMFUL OR NOT. If you live somewhere it experiences hard freezes are you seriously going to expect tropical species to thrive? Are you kidding? I get the consensus that this may help to limit the amount of wild caught individuals being brought into the trade. But if the exotic animal keeping hobby was solely dependent on wild caught animals then we would be out of a hobby, because the majority of our pets here on this forum are captive bred. We do a conservative service by keeping these animals in captivity while their natural ranges are clear cut for palm oil and our domesticated animal friends. This bill is stupid.

 

[emartinm28]

The most important thing to remember through all of this is that any species that hits that “minimal quantities” standards for commerce and importation will not be automatically banned from importation. We will also have 1 year after the act is passed, 1 year to get as many new species and bloodlines in as we can. We’ll also need to start building communities within our states so that if, god forbid, any T successfully goes through notice and comment and is prohibited from interstate transport, at least a few states will have a solid network with which to keep the species around in the hobby. Most importantly, know that even when this is passed all exotics not on the injurious list will still be able to be transported across state lines, so we need to make sure that sellers know this and don’t misinterpret the law to think that they need to shut down

edit: we will also need to be on top of commenting under any proposed bans on regulations.gov. Nothing is set in stone yet, this defeat doesn’t destroy the hobby, but it opens us up to attack. They’ll need to come for our species 1 by 1, and we must resist it every step of the way

 

[TylerFishman5675]

The most important thing to remember through all of this is that any species that hits that “minimal quantities” standards for commerce and importation will not be automatically banned from importation. We will also have 1 year after the act is passed, 1 year to get as many new species and bloodlines in as we can. We’ll also need to start building communities within our states so that if, god forbid, any T successfully goes through notice and comment and is prohibited from interstate transport, at least a few states will have a solid network with which to keep the species around in the hobby. Most importantly, know that even when this is passed all exotics not on the injurious list will still be able to be transported across state lines, so we need to make sure that sellers know this and don’t misinterpret the law to think that they need to shut down

edit: we will also need to be on top of commenting under any proposed bans on regulations.gov. Nothing is set in stone yet, this defeat doesn’t destroy the hobby, but it opens us up to attack. They’ll need to come for our species 1 by 1, and we must resist it every step of the way

So when will we not be able to transport animals over state lines? How long until this is completely ratified and enforced?

 

[emartinm28]

So when will we not be able to transport animals over state lines? How long until this is completely ratified and enforced?

When this is ratified, it will go into effect after one year. The only animals that will be prohibited from transport across state lines are those listed as “injurious” under the Lacey Act. This currently includes a lot of salamanders (because of chytrid), bats, zebra mussels, and notably large pythons and anacondas, along with some other misc. species that i don’t know off the top of my head. These will be the ONLY animals banned from interstate transport. In order to add say, a t. albo to the list, the Fish and Wildlife Service will have to publish a proposal on regulations.gov. This will be open to the public for commenting to say whether they support this new rule or not. After a 9 step process bouncing between committees and basically just getting passed through a bunch of bureaucracy, the rule may then be published in the Federal Register. It’s quite a time consuming task, and it’s not very likely that they’ll go through the effort to stamp out every species from the hobby. If a burm or a retic is your dream snake though, your time for obtaining one is fast running out.

can’t be understated though that any species that does not have an established breeding population here in the US will be banned from importation unless they’ve been imported, exported, or have been in interstate commerce in “minimal quantities.” Not sure all the logistics of that because I don’t breed but any species that relies on importation from Germany to enter the US hobby will be banned from importation if they don’t meet that standard (which the Secretary will have FULL discretion to determine). This means no new bloodlines. This also means no new species, so keeping a healthy population of certain species here in the US may fall down to how well breeders here are aware of and communicate with each other.

 

[TylerFishman5675]

When this is ratified, it will go into effect after one year. The only animals that will be prohibited from transport across state lines are those listed as “injurious” under the Lacey Act. This currently includes a lot of salamanders (because of chytrid), bats, zebra mussels, and notably large pythons and anacondas, along with some other misc. species that i don’t know off the top of my head. These will be the ONLY animals banned from interstate transport. In order to add say, a t. albo to the list, the Fish and Wildlife Service will have to publish a proposal on regulations.gov. This will be open to the public for commenting to say whether they support this new rule or not. After a 9 step process bouncing between committees and basically just getting passed through a bunch of bureaucracy, the rule may then be published in the Federal Register. It’s quite a time consuming task, and it’s not very likely that they’ll go through the effort to stamp out every species from the hobby. If a burm or a retic is your dream snake though, your time for obtaining one is fast running out.

Hm good to know, well to play devils advocate this seemingly will suppress the demand for wild caught animals, which I’m always in favor for.

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

When this is ratified, it will go into effect after one year. The only animals that will be prohibited from transport across state lines are those listed as “injurious” under the Lacey Act. This currently includes a lot of salamanders (because of chytrid), bats, zebra mussels, and notably large pythons and anacondas, along with some other misc. species that i don’t know off the top of my head. These will be the ONLY animals banned from interstate transport. In order to add say, a t. albo to the list, the Fish and Wildlife Service will have to publish a proposal on regulations.gov. This will be open to the public for commenting to say whether they support this new rule or not. After a 9 step process bouncing between committees and basically just getting passed through a bunch of bureaucracy, the rule may then be published in the Federal Register. It’s quite a time consuming task, and it’s not very likely that they’ll go through the effort to stamp out every species from the hobby. If a burm or a retic is your dream snake though, your time for obtaining one is fast running out.

can’t be understated though that any species that does not have an established breeding population here in the US will be banned from importation unless they’ve been imported, exported, or have been in interstate commerce in “minimal quantities.” Not sure all the logistics of that because I don’t breed but any species that relies on importation from Germany to enter the US hobby will be banned from importation if they don’t meet that standard (which the Secretary will have FULL discretion to determine). This means no new bloodlines. This also means no new species, so keeping a healthy population of certain species here in the US may fall down to how well breeders here are aware of and communicate with each other.

Doesn't sound like the end of the hobby, but it will be more challenging for sure to keep healthy, diverse tarantula populations. One thing i dont get tho; if a species is imported too much its banned? Or if its imported not enough?

 

[Arthroverts]

Hm good to know, well to play devils advocate this seemingly will suppress the demand for wild caught animals, which I’m always in favor for.

No it won’t.

Exotic roaches, millipedes, beetles, ants, isopods, phasmids, mantids, gastropods, etc. are all illegal under the Plant Protection Act. Did this depress legal imports of those species? Yes.
Did it do anything about the illegal imports? No, it exacerbated them by making such options the only way to get specimens with lots of people happy to turn a blind eye. By making it impossible to bring in species legally, these amendments are just going to cut out, say, law-abiding exporters and breeders in Europe and allow smugglers with no care for the environment or the welfare of the specimens to fill the gap. It is very high minded to think people will actually follow the law, but even right now the majority of our species are at some point collected and transported illegally (Birupes simoroxigorum, Typhochlaena sp., Brachypelma sp.), and I can bet you if we wanted Taksinus bambus or something like that we would be more than happy to “don’t ask, don’t tell”.

That’s very cynical, but I’m only that way because it’s already happening, and these amendments will only fuel it further. These amendments do nothing for conservation.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[emartinm28]

Doesn't sound like the end of the hobby, but it will be more challenging for sure to keep healthy, diverse tarantula populations. One thing i dont get tho; if a species is imported too much its banned? Or if its imported not enough?

If its imported not enough

 

[TylerFishman5675]

No it won’t.

Exotic roaches, millipedes, beetles, ants, isopods, phasmids, mantids, gastropods, etc. are all illegal under the Plant Protection Act. Did this depress legal imports of those species? Yes.
Did it do anything about the illegal imports? No, it exacerbated them by making such options the only way to get specimens with lots of people happy to turn a blind eye. By making it impossible to bring in species legally, these amendments are just going to cut out, say, law-abiding exporters and breeders in Europe and allow smugglers with no care for the environment or the welfare of the specimens to fill the gap. It is very high minded to think people will actually follow the law, but even right now the majority of our species are at some point collected and transported illegally (Birupes simoroxigorum, Typhochlaena sp., Brachypelma sp.), and I can bet you if we wanted Taksinus bambus or something like that we would be more than happy to “don’t ask, don’t tell”.

That’s very cynical, but I’m only that way because it’s already happening, and these amendments will only fuel it further. These amendments do nothing for conservation.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

Great point, didn’t think of that.

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

If its imported not enough

Do we have any number for this, or was it just a vauge statement?

 

[emartinm28]

Do we have any number for this, or was it just a vauge statement?

The Secretary of the Interior gets to unilaterally decide

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

The Secretary of the Interior gets to unilaterally decide

Dunno if youre banging your head at me or the law lol, thanks for the clarification tho.

 

[emartinm28]

Dunno if youre banging your head at me or the law lol, thanks for the clarification tho.

At the law lol, sorry didn’t mean for it to come across that way

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

At the law lol, sorry didn’t mean for it to come across that way

It's alright, in the past it's usually been at me. I'm not the most agreeable guy here lol.