Keeping Aphonopelma moist

[viper69]

It's actually funny you say that, I just watched a documentary about the evolution of animals in Chernobyl. It's not exactly fish to tarantulas but frogs in Chernobyl exposed to radiation rapidly evolved to become immune to radiation. Once a species of bright green frogs are now jet black. Their biology has evolved to produce extreme amounts of melanin that protects them from radiation.

They underwent evolution that should have taken hundreds or thousands of years.

I remember that! Really wild stuff

I’ve know about this t species far longer than it’s been in the hobby recently- but man it was rare to see them to buy. Now you can at times, cost is too much though.

 

[A guy]

Here's another excerpt from the aforementioned email, which details my history with the genus starting in late 2022.

@A guy, you might even notice a reference to a DM we had a little over a year ago discussing our experiments with the genus thus far at the time .



LPT: click on forum quotes in order to expand them and fully read lol.

Now, send me a PM and let's talk about me importing some of the species you have lol

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

This post gives me something to think about. I have 3 A. mooreae spiderlings I acquired in July 2019 from the first import to the USA and here it is about 6 years later and all three are only about an inch long. They are still a uniform grey-blue color with no hint of the bright greens and oranges. I've been giving them water and food on an as-needed basis, not keeping them damp and not feeding them so much they get super fat. When I got them they were super tiny with the typical newborn pinkish-tan coloration and have been molting about once a year since I got them. Maybe now I will try ramping up the water content in the soil and start feeding them more often to see if that jump starts their growth. At this rate I will be an old man before they reach maturity.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

No, the idea is the dry conditions that the hobby is keeping them in is not optimal, they're surviving, not thriving.

I keep mine dry , maybe I should try overflowing the water dish ?

 

[A guy]

I keep mine dry , maybe I should try overflowing the water dish ?

Like mentioned before, the typical overflowing of the water dish isn't enough.

 

[l4nsky]

Like mentioned before, the typical overflowing of the water dish isn't enough.

Also important to note is that ventilation needs to be addressed in tandem with increased soil moisture if you're planning on following these experiments yourself.

Increasing substrate moisture without having atleast some substrate level cross ventilation AND some top ventilation will not produce these results. In fact, it will likely produce a dead spider.

 

[viper69]

I keep mine dry , maybe I should try overflowing the water dish ?

You have nothing to lose by following what op did

 

[Ratmosphere]

Definitely going to try this out. Game changer!

 

[Moakmeister]

Wow... I'm flabbergasted. I came in here fully expecting no science, just guessing, from some dude (or a guy lol) asking if he could just disregard all the established practices and keep this desert-dwelling species wrong. And I find a successful experiment that actually shows that it's better to give them lots of humidity.

This makes me wonder if we should keep all dry species wetter than we thought.

 

[A guy]

This makes me wonder if we should keep all dry species wetter than we thought.

Give it a shot but as mentioned above, give them lots of ventilation on top and a lot on substrate level

 

[Moakmeister]

Give it a shot but as mentioned above, give them lots of ventilation on top and a lot on substrate level

I think having a ton of airholes is super important for all tank pets. I just like the idea of a lot of fresh air moving through there regardless of how wet or dry they need to be, so I'm good there.

 

[l4nsky]

Wow... I'm flabbergasted. I came in here fully expecting no science, just guessing, from some dude (or a guy lol) asking if he could just disregard all the established practices and keep this desert-dwelling species wrong. And I find a successful experiment that actually shows that it's better to give them lots of humidity.

This makes me wonder if we should keep all dry species wetter than we thought.

Lol there are still MANY logical fallacies towards the care of these animals in captivity which still need to addressed.

Can you think of ANY other ectothermic animal (meaning cold blooded, meaning their activity levels, visibility, and health are tied directly to the external air temperature) from a lowland rainforest (which has the MOST stable year round parameters of any terrestrial environment, always hot and humid) where the common husbandry advice is temperature doesn't matter, if you're fine they're fine?!

I'll wait.....

 

[Moakmeister]

Lol there are still MANY logical fallacies towards the care of these animals in captivity which still need to addressed.

Can you think of ANY other ectothermic animal (meaning cold blooded, meaning their activity levels, visibility, and health are tied directly to the external air temperature) from a lowland rainforest (which has the MOST stable year round parameters of any terrestrial environment, always hot and humid) where the common husbandry advice is temperature doesn't matter, if you're fine they're fine?!

I'll wait.....

Nope, I've always thought that was a bit strange. Humans are definitely comfortable in cooler environments than cold blooded animals. I use a heat mat on the side of my scorpion's tank and a heat lamp above my beetles' tank. I don't use extra heating for my Ts but if I ever get more living space I may try and figure something out.

 

[Glorfindel]

proper ventilation is crucial for maintaining a healthy environment

 

[A guy]

Lol there are still MANY logical fallacies towards the care of these animals in captivity which still need to addressed.

Can you think of ANY other ectothermic animal (meaning cold blooded, meaning their activity levels, visibility, and health are tied directly to the external air temperature) from a lowland rainforest (which has the MOST stable year round parameters of any terrestrial environment, always hot and humid) where the common husbandry advice is temperature doesn't matter, if you're fine they're fine?!

I'll wait.....

I think we should build them highways and give them electric cars to save them energy in hunting.

 

[TheraMygale]

Wow... I'm flabbergasted. I came in here fully expecting no science, just guessing, from some dude (or a guy lol) asking if he could just disregard all the established practices and keep this desert-dwelling species wrong. And I find a successful experiment that actually shows that it's better to give them lots of humidity.

This makes me wonder if we should keep all dry species wetter than we thought.

i think arid species do require a dry period, because it encourages biological changes inside of them. If you have an arid species like P murinus, and keep it moist with no ventilation, it will most likely die.

even a too large overflowed bowl, in a small badly ventilated enclosure can be problematic.

so my approach would be balanced. If you keep a small portion of enclosure moist, with appropriate airflow, then you will see where tarantula prefers to go.

and all tarantulas are exposed to a rainy period.

try explaining that to some new keepers though, that are not familiar with researching, though. It can get out of control. Which is why the whole keeping them dry thing works, for brachypelma hamorii, in example.

every situation is different, and it requires time and research from the keeper, to better understand the natural habitats of the species.

lets be honest, some people do like low maintenance. and thats fine too.

warmth/cold and rain, are also triggers for breeding. Very successful Breeders are aware of this, thus their success where others fail.

 

[A guy]

i think arid species do require a dry period, because it encourages biological changes inside of them. If you have an arid species like P murinus, and keep it moist with no ventilation, it will most likely die.

even a too large overflowed bowl, in a small badly ventilated enclosure can be problematic.

so my approach would be balanced. If you keep a small portion of enclosure moist, with appropriate airflow, then you will see where tarantula prefers to go.

and all tarantulas are exposed to a rainy period.

If that's the case then doesn't it beg the question even more?

Why did multiple specimens of Aphonopelma, a desert dwelling species of tarantula, in this case, their whole lives have been experiencing non stop moist "season" have been doing extremely well and have been growing to rates unheard of before?

This is just a food for thought but there is definitely something here, something a lot of people aren't ready to hear just yet.

 

[TheraMygale]

If that's the case then doesn't it beg the question even more?

Why did multiple specimens of Aphonopelma, a desert dwelling species of tarantula, in this case, their whole lives have been experiencing non stop moist "season" have been doing extremely well and have been growing to rates unheard of before?

This is just a food for thought but there is definitely something here, something a lot of people aren't ready to hear just yet.

youre preaching to choir in my case, i think we are both in the same camp.

i thing people getting results should cross the wall, aka the game of thrones wall, and spread the word.

it doesnt matter who doesnt agree.

its working. that is all that matters. Those who want results will try it as well. And then more people will share their results.

you also have a lot of experience with tarantulas, and know how to work husbandry. you even questioned your husbdandry with a certain brachypelma because you werent getting the results you wanted. People with a lot of experience don’t always admit such things.

go for it and share where you know you can.

 

[DystruktoBoi1]

So I started with taking my Desert Blonde out of their enclosure and soaking the substrate pretty good. I took them out because that substrate has been bone dry for like 3 years and I added ALOT of water. After a few mins I put her back in and put some leaf litter on top to hold the moisture down. Then I misted heavily for a few days trying to get that substrate up in moisture level. So far there seems to be no harm to the Chalcodes, but it moves around more than it had previously. Also added springtails during the moistening period in case there was any potential mold growth or anything.

 

[Gevo]

I'm so late to this party, but I have a few thoughts:

there are so many people keeping tarantulas, compared to the number of scientists studying them, that together, we can definitely help each other out.

the goals of each party are different, but i think both share a desire for tarantulas to be thriving.

Exactly! Also, while the scientific study of these animals is fascinating and something I like to follow, we need to remember that arachnologists who study tarantulas are usually studying their biology and wild ecology, not studying their husbandry in captivity. Their findings can certainly be applicable to captive care and breeding, but that's usually a secondary benefit and not the primary aim of their research. So, we rely on keepers to also be flexible to changing husbandry practices, to share their experiences, and to make sound and reasonable adjustments when appropriate. The downside is that a lot of people make the wrong assumptions and don't make sound and reasonable adjustments, so I very much appreciate the more seasoned keepers who can experiment in the right ways and who then share those results here. Thanks so much to @A guy for this!

I'm reminded of a podcast episode I listened to from The Tarantula Collective with a special guest (I think it was Marshall's Arachnids? I could be wrong), and the guest was talking about how the prevailing wisdom is that tarantulas don't need temperature control but that in the wild, they have temperature gradients to work with throughout the day and that he's had great success in replicating these gradients by using lamps positioned and set to allow his tarantulas to move in and out of the warmth and light as they need to. And then at night, things go dark and the whole temperature is allowed to drop off. I recall him saying that females with eggsacs would actually carry those eggsacks out to the lamp and hold them up and slowly turn them over to gradually warm the developing eggs inside, like they might do with the sunshine in the wild.

It seems like whether we're talking about moisture levels or temperatures, gradients and choice seem to be really key, and that's the part that carries risks for less experienced keepers. Keeping "dry species" dry and keeping everyone at room temperature is enough for survival, and it's much less risky than potentially suffocating your tarantula because an acrylic or glass box doesn't have the same kind of airflow as an open plain does after a rainfall, or potentially cooking your tarantula because a heat lamp shining from directly overhead heats up all 4 or 5 inches of soil and doesn't mimic the temperature gradient that can be found in the ground with limitless depth to dig to--that kind of thing. So, I don't think it's wrong that our general husbandry practices and advice tend to be very conservative to avoid these kinds of issues, and I think it's a testament to the hardiness of these animals that they're actually able to survive and even thrive in a much wider margin of conditions than many other non-traditional pets, but if there are ways to make their captive conditions align more with their ideal natural conditions, I'm here for it.