Keeping a wasp.

A cave cricket

Arachnoknight
Joined
Mar 17, 2022
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257
First off I'm very allergic to wasps, good thing it's a 1 on the Schmidt pain index. I caught a mud dauber with no wings. I gave her some honey she loved it. But i need help for the enclosure, Right now I'm keeping her in a jar with a tiny drop of honey and a paper towel on the bottom. Any tips for enclosure "furniture". Or am I the only one who's keeping a wasp?
 

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HeartBum

Arachnobaron
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Nov 14, 2020
Messages
360
Freaky. A huge wasp let itself into my room yesterday and obviously triggered a dream. Dreamt I cut the wings off a wasp (???) to keep it, because I didn’t want it flying out the enclosure. What the heck.
 

DaveM

ArachnoOneCanReach
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First off I'm very allergic to wasps, good thing it's a 1 on the Schmidt pain index. I caught a mud dauber with no wings. I gave her some honey she loved it. But i need help for the enclosure, Right now I'm keeping her in a jar with a tiny drop of honey and a paper towel on the bottom. Any tips for enclosure "furniture". Or am I the only one who's keeping a wasp?
Not meaning to be cheeky here, but if it's a mud dauber, then I think it will require some mud and that it will sculpt its own furniture, if you can create a habitat that will adequately simulate a suitable living environment. Now, there's a problem here: although mud daubers do drink nectar (hence, the observed acceptance of honey), a significant fraction of the "food" they harvest is spider prey... how well will that sit with people here if you try to catch spiders to feed your pet wasp? I have no horse in this race. It's your throat that you're exposing here, @A cave cricket, to the largest community of spider lovers in the world! Do so at your own peril....

Freaky. A huge wasp let itself into my room yesterday and obviously triggered a dream. Dreamt I cut the wings off a wasp (???) to keep it, because I didn’t want it flying out the enclosure. What the heck.
This brings back a rueful childhood memory. I found a male and female pair of Dasymutilla occidentalis "Red velvet ants" or "cow killers" (native to eastern US, not found in Britain, so possibly unfamiliar to you) -- really a wasp species in which the females are wingless and can deliver very powerful stings, exaggerated in folklore as being able to kill cows; you get the idea. Cicada killers like Sphecius speciosus are some of the largest, toughest wasps in existence (larger than European hornets). Well, red velvet ants eat cicada killers; you further get the idea.

And they were beautiful! Truly as though they were tufted with with the most vivid red and black velvet. I was walking with my mother and noticed the female velvet ant crawling along in some dirt at the side of the road, the male flying just above her and frequently landing on and around her most amorously. I dumped the drink I was carrying to use my glass to catch them. And while the male landed to make a romantic overture, I succeeded in capturing them both! My cup had no top, but I covered it with my hand, the logic being that the female can sting but can't climb the side of the glass to sting my hand, whilst the male can fly up to my hand but can't sting. Perfect! or as a British person would preferentially say: Brilliant!
I was ecstatic, and happily rattled off all kinds of facts about these wonderful insects to my much-amused mother.

Then came the problem. I needed to sneeze, badly, to throw a big sneezing fit, an unstoppable and unavoidable urge... so I quickly and carefully transferred the glass to my mother's care, moving her hand to cover the top to prevent the male from escaping. Then, during my sneezing fit, I heard my mother screech, withdrawing her hand, and I saw my prized male velvet ant fly away. Being a good boy, my first concern was that my mother had been stung. Human mothers matter more than insects, I suppose, even if the insect be a prized specimen. That wasn't it, though: my mother had not been stung. The male had just flown up and brushed against her hand. In all my excitement telling insect facts and of how nasty a sting this species could give, I had forgotten to tell her that the males cannot sting. Doesn't everyone know that stingers are modified ovipositors, that males don't have stingers because they don't have ovipositors, because they have no ova to oviposit? I guess not.

SO, it was practically a Shakespearean tragedy, and I was the culprit. I destroyed a beautiful insect romance. :sad:
The male flew off to who knows where. I was as mad as King Lear, and having done so much wrong to the female, I named her Cordelia and kept her as a cherished pet for the rest of her short life. Today she rests, skewered with a pin through the thorax to an insect collection board in a box in my basement. I'm pure evil, I know, undeserving of any mercy or reprieve. If it softens at all how harshly I must be judged, then consider please one minor mitigating factor. At least I did not skewer her through the heart, because the insect heart (or chain of hearts, technically "dorsal vessel") runs through the abdomen, and hardly at all in the thorax.
 
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chanda

Arachnoking
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Wasps that can't fly (either due to wing damage or flightless wasps like velvet ants) are pretty easy to keep. They just need a well-ventilated enclosure, things to climb on, and food. I've had good luck using sliced fruit (mostly grapes and oranges) for food. Just change it out every couple of days so it doesn't dry out or get moldy.

For velvet ants (Mutilidae) I've used large (8-12" diameter) plastic cups with screened lids, a little sand in the bottom, and bits of wood or dried plants.

For tarantula hawks (Pepsis/Hemipepsis sp.) I've used pop-up butterfly enclosures with long vertical/diagonal twigs for climbing - though a hard-sided enclosure like plastic or glass would also work, if her wings are damaged anyway. When I've kept the tarantula hawks, it's usually been fully intact individuals, and just for a week or two, so I could show them to my students before releasing them, so the soft-sided enclosure was necessary to prevent wing damage. I did find one with damaged wings, though, and ended up keeping her for the remainder of her natural life.

I imagine keeping a mud dauber would be similar. Despite the suggestion above to provide her with mud, she won't really need it. She won't make "furniture" or a shelter for herself. They only use the mud to create nests in which to lay eggs. While it is theoretically possible that she could construct a mud nest, she won't be able to hunt, to provision the nest with paralyzed spider prey for her offspring - so even if she has mated, she either won't lay an egg to begin with, or the egg/larva won't survive. At most, the mud would provide her with something to do - if she'd even attempt nest-building in her condition. If you do decide to offer her mud, make sure it isn't too wet - and that the enclosure is well-ventilated - so the enclosure doesn't get too stuffy or overrun with mold.
 

A cave cricket

Arachnoknight
Joined
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Thanks for the funny post @DaveM !

Btw bless you. And I think you need some tissues with your sneezing fit.

And I won't update on spider feeding but I do have spiders i can feed cutie. And yes her name is cutie.

I'm pretty sure got stung by her last night while i and fed her some honey. sorry my phone camera is really crappy.
 

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chanda

Arachnoking
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Thanks for the funny post @DaveM !

Btw bless you. And I think you need some tissues with your sneezing fit.

And I won't update on spider feeding but I do have spiders i can feed cutie. And yes her name is cutie.
She doesn't need to eat spiders. While some adult mud daubers may occasionally feed on hemolymph from spiders, their primary diet is nectar or fruit juices.

It is the larvae of mud daubers that rely on spiders as food - but given her condition, she's unlikely to be able to construct and stock a nest, even if you were to provide her with the necessary spiders (roughly 10 to 30 per cell, depending on the size of the spiders).
 

Pmurinushmacla

Arachnobaron
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Not meaning to be cheeky here, but if it's a mud dauber, then I think it will require some mud and that it will sculpt its own furniture, if you can create a habitat that will adequately simulate a suitable living environment. Now, there's a problem here: although mud daubers do drink nectar (hence, the observed acceptance of honey), a significant fraction of the "food" they harvest is spider prey... how well will that sit with people here if you try to catch spiders to feed your pet wasp? I have no horse in this race. It's your throat that you're exposing here, @A cave cricket, to the largest community of spider lovers in the world! Do so at your own peril....



This brings back a rueful childhood memory. I found a male and female pair of Dasymutilla occidentalis "Red velvet ants" or "cow killers" (native to eastern US, not found in Britain, so possibly unfamiliar to you) -- really a wasp species in which the females are wingless and can deliver very powerful stings, exaggerated in folklore as being able to kill cows; you get the idea. Cicada killers like Sphecius speciosus are some of the largest, toughest wasps in existence (larger than European hornets). Well, red velvet ants eat cicada killers; you further get the idea.

And they were beautiful! Truly as though they were tufted with with the most vivid red and black velvet. I was walking with my mother and noticed the female velvet ant crawling along in some dirt at the side of the road, the male flying just above her and frequently landing on and around her most amorously. I dumped the drink I was carrying to use my glass to catch them. And while the male landed to make a romantic overture, I succeeded in capturing them both! My cup had no top, but I covered it with my hand, the logic being that the female can sting but can't climb the side of the glass to sting my hand, whilst the male can fly up to my hand but can't sting. Perfect! or as a British person would preferentially say: Brilliant!
I was ecstatic, and happily rattled off all kinds of facts about these wonderful insects to my much-amused mother.

Then came the problem. I needed to sneeze, badly, to throw a big sneezing fit, an unstoppable and unavoidable urge... so I quickly and carefully transferred the glass to my mother's care, moving her hand to cover the top to prevent the male from escaping. Then, during my sneezing fit, I heard my mother screech, withdrawing her hand, and I saw my prized male velvet ant fly away. Being a good boy, my first concern was that my mother had been stung. Human mothers matter more than insects, I suppose, even if the insect be a prized specimen. That wasn't it, though: my mother had not been stung. The male had just flown up and brushed against her hand. In all my excitement telling insect facts and of how nasty a sting this species could give, I had forgotten to tell her that the males cannot sting. Doesn't everyone know that stingers are modified ovipositors, that males don't have stingers because they don't have ovipositors, because they have no ova to oviposit? I guess not.

SO, it was practically a Shakespearean tragedy, and I was the culprit. I destroyed a beautiful insect romance. :sad:
The male flew off to who knows where. I was as mad as King Lear, and having done so much wrong to the female, I named her Cordelia and kept her as a cherished pet for the rest of her short life. Today she rests, skewered with a pin through the thorax to an insect collection board in a box in my basement. I'm pure evil, I know, undeserving of any mercy or reprieve. If it softens at all how harshly I must be judged, then consider please one minor mitigating factor. At least I did not skewer her through the heart, because the insect heart (or chain of hearts, technically "dorsal vessel") runs through the abdomen, and hardly at all in the thorax.
Imo its the same as feeding crickets to a T. Some people may like crickets, but the T needs to eat.
 

DaveM

ArachnoOneCanReach
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Imo its the same as feeding crickets to a T. Some people may like crickets, but the T needs to eat.
Now, @Pmurinushmacla, I'm not accusing you of being heartless, and not even saying you're wrong -- in fact, I agree with you completely -- but I merely think I should point out that this is exactly how a savage brute might justify cannibalizing a smaller and weaker member of his tribe.

"Some people may have liked Little Ugg, funny guy always cracking jokes while he cracked his coconuts for us, but it's the same as any other feeding we do. A big guy like me just needs to eat!"
 

chanda

Arachnoking
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Imo its the same as feeding crickets to a T. Some people may like crickets, but the T needs to eat.
It really isn't the same. A predator like a tarantula needs to eat other living creatures (like crickets, mealworms, or roaches) to survive. A fully mature wasp does not need to eat spiders. She will do just fine with nectar or fruit juice - which is what she would primarily eat in the wild. It is only the wasp larvae that need to eat spiders.
 

DaveM

ArachnoOneCanReach
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It really isn't the same. A predator like a tarantula needs to eat other living creatures (like crickets, mealworms, or roaches) to survive. A fully mature wasp does not need to eat spiders. She will do just fine with nectar or fruit juice - which is what she would primarily eat in the wild. It is only the wasp larvae that need to eat spiders.
That's a great point, @chanda. By the way, hello, and I always appreciate reading your posts.
What you write, though it has no doubt been true, about tarantulas needing to eat other living creatures: I wonder if that will always necessarily continue to be the case. I've fed spiderlings crumbs of ground beef before, and at least spiderlings will typically accept prekilled prey, or pieces of prey. Where I'm going with this is: we now have Impossible Burgers... artificial, lab-grown meat. Hmmm... I know there is vegan dog food. I wonder if some pan-animal lovers will ever try to raise tarantulas on meat substitutes? Some adult tarantulas unaccustomed to accepting prekilled prey can be fooled if the prey is poked to simulate movement. I'm not suggesting that meat substitutes would be good [or necessarily bad either], but I do think that our future will be more artificial.

Why did we have to evolve such clever brains that are so capable of artifice? It would be so much simpler if we were all mud dauber wasps, happily sucking honey, not knowing or caring from whence it came.
 

A cave cricket

Arachnoknight
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Messages
257
She died, end of thread.



JK, she ApPaReNtLy died of a parasite, not going in to much detail but it causes the wasps wings to fall off and makes the wasp behave strangely. And it's not normal for a wasps wings to fall off. Obviously.

rip cutie. ??? To 2022.
 

DaveM

ArachnoOneCanReach
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ApPaReNtLy
What is this?

APRNL, paety?

Sorry your wasp died, but are you doing OK, @A cave cricket? Something seems off about you. Tough being 17?
It's important to be truthful. Are you going to describe how you know this wasp had a parasite that made the wings fall off?
Mysterious or fantastical stories do not win good will from people in an informational forum.

Here's an interesting blog post about a parasite of social wasps.
 
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A cave cricket

Arachnoknight
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First of all, what do you mean "am I doing ok?"

Second of all, why do you want to know how I know it has a parasite?

Totally not having any "thoughts" but remember, stay on topic 🙂.
 

Pmurinushmacla

Arachnobaron
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It really isn't the same. A predator like a tarantula needs to eat other living creatures (like crickets, mealworms, or roaches) to survive. A fully mature wasp does not need to eat spiders. She will do just fine with nectar or fruit juice - which is what she would primarily eat in the wild. It is only the wasp larvae that need to eat spiders.
I am not well educated in wasp keeping as I hate them and have been stung dozens of times. I was under the impression that it was necessary for them to survive or at least a good idea due to that being their natural forage (might miss out on needed protein etc). If they can live the same without spiders then I agree, but even if they can live without, id still probably feed it a spider once in a while. If that makes up a large portion of their natural diet (IF) then Id speculate they have somewhat developed to rely on it in their diet. All speculation tho, I hate wasps and am no wasp expert.
 

DaveM

ArachnoOneCanReach
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First of all, what do you mean "am I doing ok?"
Concern for a fellow human being that exhibits erratic behavior.

Second of all, why do you want to know how I know it has a parasite?
This thread is about keeping a wasp. Parasites that affect the wasp in question by causing its wings to fall off... ...that sounds odd, and, if true, would be on-topic and very interesting.
 

Pmurinushmacla

Arachnobaron
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Now, @Pmurinushmacla, I'm not accusing you of being heartless, and not even saying you're wrong -- in fact, I agree with you completely -- but I merely think I should point out that this is exactly how a savage brute might justify cannibalizing a smaller and weaker member of his tribe.

"Some people may have liked Little Ugg, funny guy always cracking jokes while he cracked his coconuts for us, but it's the same as any other feeding we do. A big guy like me just needs to eat!"
Well in that case its human eat human, not wasp eat spider. But rest assured, if I was in such tribe and the weaker tribemate posessed beneficial skills like cracking coconuts, he would be spared.
 

DaveM

ArachnoOneCanReach
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Well in that case its human eat human, not wasp eat spider. But rest assured, if I was in such tribe and the weaker tribemate posessed beneficial skills like cracking coconuts, he would be spared.
I like your attitude. Practical, utilitarianist ethics a la John Stuart Mill. You can be part of my tribe, @Pmurinushmacla, the tribe I will form if doomsday should strike. Beekeepers would be quite useful to us I think, for honey and for pollinating crops to reestablish agriculture. People that keep parasite-ridden wasps and won't explain the parasites they harbor, less useful. We could eat them!
 

A cave cricket

Arachnoknight
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You didn't answer my question, why do want to know?

Second question, why do you care what I feel?

And a answer, I'm very sad about cutie's death and I wish she didn't
 
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