Juvenile scorpion unwell, need advice.

[Morpheus]

Hi,

I have quite a few juvenile forest scorpions which I believe to be H. cyaneus, though I've never been able to confirm the exact species with any certainty. Unfortunately, one of them has developed a concerning issue, which presents as poor leg coordination, twitching moveable finger of the right pedipalp and a distended metasoma, as well as sedentariness and minimal responsiveness to stimuli. My first thought was maybe he/she was constipated due to the manner in which the metasoma was being almost perched upon, which is often how I've observed scorpions having a poop. But with the severely uncoordinated movements and lack of activity I've grown concerned that this may be terminal and worst of all, if maybe keeping the poor thing alive is actually unethical in its current state, so I need some more experienced folk to advise me on what might be going on and how to proceed. Thus far to keep it hydrated, I've been syringing a small amount of water into its preoral cavity once daily, with a sterile medical syringe and 22G plastic catheter dispensing attachment (see below). regardless, I don't think it's going to make it. I'm not sure how to humanely euthanize a scorpion, but I'm dreading the possibility of having to do so.



Also, among the other scorpions, most of which are healthy, feisty and energetic, one or two of them also seem to display some coordination issues, legs that don't quite work properly etc. I observed these symptoms even when they just 1 or 2 instar. I'm assuming these are genetically inherited nervous system anomalies one might expect to find in nature and hope it's not something really bad like some kind of contaminant that could affect the others in the brood. The parents are both very healthy and vivacious, though if I'm not mistaken I think I observed the twitchy pedipalp phenomenon in the father a long while ago, but I've observed no other strange behaviour/symptoms in either of the adults.

I'm in the process of replacing the substrate in all the scorpion enclosures because the substrate I was using was rubbish. I'm hoping that if there were any nasties in the substrate or if the bad substrate caused some stress, I can at least do that much to help mitigate any possible future issues.

A final note which may be relevant is their set-up. My adults and 7 of the juveniles are in separate enclosures. The adults being in ExoTerra glass enclosures and the 7 juveniles in small plastic terrariums ("invertariums"), inside a larger terrarium to control the temperature for all of them. The rest of them, roughly 10 at a guess (I can never remember exactly) are together in a communal set-up (in which the sick scorpion was living, but is now separated) in an ExoTerra glass terrarium the same size as the adult's enclosures. Temperatures range from 27c to 30c and humidity is 75-80%+ without huge variation (i.e. no lower night-time temperatures). They are also on a dimming, 12h light cycle using hue lights which turn red at night. I can supply actual photographs of their enclosures and living conditions if it's relevant and helpful.



Below is a video of the scorpion lying on its back displaying it's poor coordination and distended metasoma, the scorpion was promptly placed in a small tub with clean substrate, a hide and some water after this video.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated; even if this poor guy can't be saved, someone may at least allay some of my concerns about the welfare of the other animals.

Thanks!

 

[The Snark]

which presents as poor leg coordination, twitching moveable finger of the right pedipalp and a distended metasoma, as well as sedentariness and minimal responsiveness to stimuli.

But with the severely uncoordinated movements and lack of activity

Not definitively, but those are classical typical neurological symptoms. = suspected neurotoxin.
Humane euthanasia of scorps is super simple. Refrigerate. They automatically go into hibernation mode after a few hours on out to a few days. Then if you want hands off death, just move it to the freezer for about a week.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

What kind of substrate were you using?

You want to use substrates without any additives and fertilizer that may potentially cause illness or death in invertebrates. I strictly use cococoir and/or reptisoil made specifically for pets.

If changing out the substrate and providing proper temps does not improve anything euthanasia is recommended.

 

[Morpheus]

Not definitively, but those are classical typical neurological symptoms. = suspected neurotoxin.
Humane euthanasia of scorps is super simple. Refrigerate. They automatically go into hibernation mode after a few hours on out to a few days. Then if you want hands off death, just move it to the freezer for about a week.

I had considered the possibility of pyrethroid contamination, but I honestly can't imagine how. I have a strict ban on insecticides in this household. I'm not sure what other substances would have neurotoxic effects on scorpions that could cause such symptoms.

What kind of substrate were you using?

You want to use substrates without any additives and fertilizer that may potentially cause illness or death in invertebrates. I strictly use cococoir and/or reptisoil made specifically for pets.

If changing out the substrate and providing proper temps does not improve anything euthanasia is recommended.

My substrate has been the same 2:1 mixture of rainforest soil and coconut coir substrate since I can remember. It has been changed around 2 or 3 times since the brood was born about a year ago. Specifically the soil was Arcadia Earth Mix and Zoo Med Eco Earth coconut coir substrate. The reason I'm changing it, aside from cleaning the terrariums of any potential contaminants, is because the substrate dried out very quickly and just turned powdery. I'm not sure if Arcadia substrate has just reduced in quality over time, but whatever it is, it's not good now.

 

[The Snark]

I have a strict ban on insecticides in this household. I'm not sure what other substances would have neurotoxic effects on scorpions that could cause such symptoms.

It's academic at this point. If those are neurological symptoms there nothing that can be done about it.
The only other suggestion I can offer is undertake the infection control assessment - sleuthing. That being, what has been in an environment that could be contaminated that has come into the house and directly or relayed to the environment the animal is kept in. Think hands, feet, clothes, objects... In hospitals we have chased down some very bizarre infection sources nobody would have ever thought of. A sweat band, a box of tissue -pathogens, a wig - parasites, a hug from a child away from the hospital - Rubella outbreak etc. And some neurotoxins can be just as insidious.

 

[darkness975]

I had considered the possibility of pyrethroid contamination, but I honestly can't imagine how. I have a strict ban on insecticides in this household. I'm not sure what other substances would have neurotoxic effects on scorpions that could cause such symptoms.



My substrate has been the same 2:1 mixture of rainforest soil and coconut coir substrate since I can remember. It has been changed around 2 or 3 times since the brood was born about a year ago. Specifically the soil was Arcadia Earth Mix and Zoo Med Eco Earth coconut coir substrate. The reason I'm changing it, aside from cleaning the terrariums of any potential contaminants, is because the substrate dried out very quickly and just turned powdery. I'm not sure if Arcadia substrate has just reduced in quality over time, but whatever it is, it's not good now.

Candles , air fresheners, perfumes, cleaners, etc can all cause harm.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

My substrate has been the same 2:1 mixture of rainforest soil and coconut coir substrate since I can remember. It has been changed around 2 or 3 times since the brood was born about a year ago. Specifically the soil was Arcadia Earth Mix and Zoo Med Eco Earth coconut coir substrate. The reason I'm changing it, aside from cleaning the terrariums of any potential contaminants, is because the substrate dried out very quickly and just turned powdery. I'm not sure if Arcadia substrate has just reduced in quality over time, but whatever it is, it's not good now.

Hmm. Heterometrinae from southeast Asia have a high transpiration (water loss) rate the substrate needs to be always kept moist and the waterdish always filled. Not saying this was the cause of its death. If it dries (substrate), it (Heterometrinae scorpion) dies.

 

[Morpheus]

It's academic at this point. If those are neurological symptoms there nothing that can be done about it.
The only other suggestion I can offer is undertake the infection control assessment - sleuthing. That being, what has been in an environment that could be contaminated that has come into the house and directly or relayed to the environment the animal is kept in. Think hands, feet, clothes, objects... In hospitals we have chased down some very bizarre infection sources nobody would have ever thought of. A sweat band, a box of tissue -pathogens, a wig - parasites, a hug from a child away from the hospital - Rubella outbreak etc. And some neurotoxins can be just as insidious.

Candles , air fresheners, perfumes, cleaners, etc can all cause harm.

Well, I'm going to have to find any possible source of contamination I can. I have around 25 scorpions, so this is fairly worrying. To clean the terrariums I use F10 SC veterinary disinfectant and isopropyl alcohol; I have used bleach solution on some of the furnishings in the past, but I always rinsed them very well (including a run through the dishwasher, without detergent), I'm incredibly diligent about this. However, more recently I've just used standard dish soap. Cork bark is rinsed under a tap to remove soil/debris and then baked in the oven for an hour at around 170c. The only air pollutants that I can think of are the very occasional spray of Febreze (almost never in the same room as the scorpions) and some incense, again very occasionally. Is it possible that insecticides or other toxins could carry through the air, through the window? I'm starting to sound paranoid now, but it's an honest question, people spray all sorts of things in their gardens without thinking about it or where it goes!

Hmm. Heterometrinae from southeast Asia have a high transpiration (water loss) rate the substrate needs to be always kept moist and the waterdish always filled. Not saying this was the cause of its death. If it dries (substrate), it (Heterometrinae scorpion) dies.

To be clear, the scorpion is alive and the substrate is being changed precisely to avoid this happening. Also, water is always provided ad libitum.

 

[The Snark]

Chasing ghosts. Neurological or neuro like symptoms. Letting my brain go freewheeling. Scorpion toxins, hypercalcemia, amylase. blood disorders other, dehydration from blood sugars imbalance... Without some basic vitals that can't be taken on scorpions we can reach far out into conjecture land.
What @darkness975 Mentioned about aromatics, incense is definitely to be avoided on general principals, mom nature synthesizes various equivalents of pyrethroids which combustion accelerates.
I'm stumped.

 

[Morpheus]

Chasing ghosts. Neurological or neuro like symptoms. Letting my brain go freewheeling. Scorpion toxins, hypercalcemia, amylase. blood disorders other, dehydration from blood sugars imbalance... Without some basic vitals that can't be taken on scorpions we can reach far out into conjecture land.
What @darkness975 Mentioned about aromatics, incense is definitely to be avoided on general principals, mom nature synthesizes various equivalents of pyrethroids which combustion accelerates.
I'm stumped.

Yep you're right, I'm just going to make sure everything is clean. I'll avoid incense from now on just in case.

I think I'm going to have to euthanize the scorpion, which breaks my heart, but I can't just allow it to suffer. All my other scorpions are thriving, so I'm just going to have to chalk this up to bad luck.

Thanks a lot for your advice!

 

[Joey Spijkers]

I once had a whole brood of Janalychas tricarinatus exhibiting symptoms similar to this after rehousing them in separate enclosures. After I noticed this, I rehoused them again and threw away the batch of substrate that I was using before, saving some of them. The same brand of coconut fiber I had always used, but apparently I had just one contaminated batch.
You didn't change the substrate for this specific individual before this happened?
Whatever the source was, I agree that it must've been some sort of toxin or otherwise harmful chemical.

 

[Morpheus]

I once had a whole brood of Janalychas tricarinatus exhibiting symptoms similar to this after rehousing them in separate enclosures. After I noticed this, I rehoused them again and threw away the batch of substrate that I was using before, saving some of them. The same brand of coconut fiber I had always used, but apparently I had just one contaminated batch.
You didn't change the substrate for this specific individual before this happened?
Whatever the source was, I agree that it must've been some sort of toxin or otherwise harmful chemical.

Since separating them from the mother about a year ago, their substrate was replaced once. A couple of my scorpions do exhibit mild signs of neurotoxicity, but are otherwise ok, this individual was particularly severe. Also, given that it wasn't underweight suggests that this is something that developed relatively recently, so I very much suspect something in the substrate, which has now been disposed of.

I have the scorpions from that enclosure temporarily in a plastic box, with a heat source, water and a small amount of substrate (completely different substrate!), just to monitor them for a few days while I sort out their new permanent enclosure.

 

[The Snark]

I once had a whole brood of Janalychas tricarinatus exhibiting symptoms similar to this after rehousing them in separate enclosures. After I noticed this, I rehoused them again and threw away the batch of substrate that I was using before, saving some of them. The same brand of coconut fiber I had always used, but apparently I had just one contaminated batch.

I've mentioned this before. Coir is collected by the ton by minimum wage workers, processed, sanitized, fumigated by any of a number of kinds of chemicals, often treated with a fire retardant, then shipped all over the globe.
A ship my mother's best friend was on had a hold filled with coir. Spontaneous combustion at sea. It made it into long beach harbor but they couldn't extinguish the fire. Essentially it burned to the waterline.

 

[CRX]

I hate to say it, but in first post it sounds like your animal got poisoned by something. Not much more to do than provide a clean safe environment and wait.

I know it sucks. I left this hobby 12 years ago because my entire collection got contaminated with flea medication from our dogs. Everything died. I only recently got back into it with a young ASF and some jumpers.

 

[darkness975]

I hate to say it, but in first post it sounds like your animal got poisoned by something. Not much more to do than provide a clean safe environment and wait.

I know it sucks. I left this hobby 12 years ago because my entire collection got contaminated with flea medication from our dogs. Everything died. I only recently got back into it with a young ASF and some jumpers.

Glad to have you back.

Agreed on the poisoning.

 

[Morpheus]

I hate to say it, but in first post it sounds like your animal got poisoned by something. Not much more to do than provide a clean safe environment and wait.

I know it sucks. I left this hobby 12 years ago because my entire collection got contaminated with flea medication from our dogs. Everything died. I only recently got back into it with a young ASF and some jumpers.

Well that's awful... Yeah anything made for killing bugs will kill scorps sadly, crazy how that stuff even got in there, perhaps as simple as touching the dog before doing something in the enclosures. I don't have dogs/cats myself, but I could easily see myself overlooking flea treatment as a potential contaminant, even though it should be obvious, I'd never even thought of it.

I don't have insecticides in the house, or insect killing meds etc. and theoretically it should be relatively easy to keep things like that away, but things that aren't explicitly for killing insects are much more insidious and concerning.

Also, not that it needs to be said, but just a quick update; I put the scorpion to sleep, was the first scorpion I ever put down, it was awful. No pain or suffering, I actually used Co2 before putting him in the fridge, then transferred him to the freezer after a few hours. Still, even if it was the right thing to do, killing one of my little scorps was not nice.

 

[CRX]

@darkness975 thank you

@Morpheus All we can do is live and learn. I've had to kill more animals than I wanted to, and I will probably have to kill more in the future. Its just the life we choose working with them, sometimes there is no other option. It makes me sad, and its one of the reasons I sometimes think the pet trade should not exist. But we can't really stop that, can we? The best thing we can do is provide free information and help for all pet owners.