Just finished reading The Tarantula Keeper's Guide...

[Tanner Dzula]

This flies in the face of everything i have read on AB, anytime you go on here asking anything about humidity, people sing "dry with a water dish". That has been my experience, i see that very strongly adhered to and i dont see the difference with what stan is advocating.

He only recommends keeping them drier after the sling stage is past. The swampdeller thing is just a name, man, here is what he actually says.

TKG, 2nd edition, pg 245, top left paragraph:

"The substrate (presumed to be peat; see the discussion under "Substrates" on page 135 for more information) should be damp enough to hold its shape after being squeezed in the hand, but dry enough that no liquid water can be squeezed from it. "

This would mean that stan is NOT suggesting we keep T. Blondi in standing water, as per the name "Swamp Dweller" would suggest. This seems perfectly reasonable to me, the devil is in the details, boys.

yes. dry with a water dish, for most beginner tarantula's.
most Brachypelma's, Grammostola's, and aphonopelma's and such can and should be kept with just a water bowl over filled, as these are usually pretty arid and dry species.

By no means are experienced people on here suggesting that you keep, say, a T. Blondi the same way.
and lets not get into things like Asian OW's and such. the fact is though, 90% of the posts on here, are usually from New Tarantula Owners, who usually all have some type of beginner arid species(brachy,grammy, ETC) who was told they need to mist their tank several times a Week, with no ventilation, by some inexperienced petco employee who's never spent more then 5 minutes with a tarantula.


and many people have already pointed out MANY of the issues the book has already.
nobody is saying that the book is garbage or anything, but much like you have pointed out about this website, the book has some problems.

the only difference? this website has people posting daily sharing their experiences. the book? well we are still waiting for the 4th edition.


PS: what does you running linux have to do with the information on this website?

the websites information is improved: people are posting literally by the minute on here, and more and more information is being added, with very little posts being deleted(that are not already copies of other threads at this point)

The website itself is being enhanced: you should have seen it years ago. there have been so many changes, to the formatting, to the style and theme. there have been changes to the structure of the website itself, and so forth.

and again, updated?: literally, minute by minute updates by individual keepers and enthusiasts. as good as the book is, it is based off of 1 mans Experiences and knowledge. this is a website filled with literally thousands of keepers collective experience.


and yes the book is filed with some "heated" debates.
one of which being the ICU. i for one can confirm that the ICU is not always the best thing. after reading the TKG when i first started keeping T's, i had a T show the exact signs mentioned in the book, and the book explained to put it in an ICU. 2 days later my E. Pachypus was dead. now I'm not saying it was strictly from the ICU, but it happens to be ironic that everybody seems to be in agreeance that ICU's do more harm then good with Arid/Dry species, and my Arid/Dry species died while in the ICU.
also ironic, when i had a similar situation this past summer happen, and i took the advised of the users on here and did NOT put it in the ICU, instead giving water directly to her mouth and putting her over a water source, 3 days later she was back to webbing up her Enclosure just fine.

 

[BishopiMaster]

yes. dry with a water dish, for most beginner tarantula's.
most Brachypelma's, Grammostola's, and aphonopelma's and such can and should be kept with just a water bowl over filled, as these are usually pretty arid and dry species.

By no means are experienced people on here suggesting that you keep, say, a T. Blondi the same way.
and lets not get into things like Asian OW's and such. the fact is though, 90% of the posts on here, are usually from New Tarantula Owners, who usually all have some type of beginner arid species(brachy,grammy, ETC) who was told they need to mist their tank several times a Week, with no ventilation, by some inexperienced petco employee who's never spent more then 5 minutes with a tarantula.


and many people have already pointed out MANY of the issues the book has already.
nobody is saying that the book is garbage or anything, but much like you have pointed out about this website, the book has some problems.

the only difference? this website has people posting daily sharing their experiences. the book? well we are still waiting for the 4th edition.


PS: what does you running linux have to do with the information on this website?

the websites information is improved: people are posting literally by the minute on here, and more and more information is being added, with very little posts being deleted(that are not already copies of other threads at this point)

The website itself is being enhanced: you should have seen it years ago. there have been so many changes, to the formatting, to the style and theme. there have been changes to the structure of the website itself, and so forth.

and again, updated?: literally, minute by minute updates by individual keepers and enthusiasts. as good as the book is, it is based off of 1 mans Experiences and knowledge. this is a website filled with literally thousands of keepers collective experience.


and yes the book is filed with some "heated" debates.
one of which being the ICU. i for one can confirm that the ICU is not always the best thing. after reading the TKG when i first started keeping T's, i had a T show the exact signs mentioned in the book, and the book explained to put it in an ICU. 2 days later my E. Pachypus was dead. now I'm not saying it was strictly from the ICU, but it happens to be ironic that everybody seems to be in agreeance that ICU's do more harm then good with Arid/Dry species, and my Arid/Dry species died while in the ICU.
also ironic, when i had a similar situation this past summer happen, and i took the advised of the users on here and did NOT put it in the ICU, instead giving water directly to her mouth and putting her over a water source, 3 days later she was back to webbing up her Enclosure just fine.

"By no means are experienced people on here suggesting that you keep, say, a T. Blondi the same way. "

-Where did I say this?

"and many people have already pointed out MANY of the issues the book has already.
nobody is saying that the book is garbage or anything, but much like you have pointed out about this website, the book has some problems."

- Nobody said the book was perfect, not even me, I only seek to rebut the claims regarding humidity and a few others.

"and again, updated?: literally, minute by minute updates by individual keepers and enthusiasts. as good as the book is, it is based off of 1 mans Experiences and knowledge. this is a website filled with literally thousands of keepers collective experience"

- And thousands of differences of opinion as I am explaining now, like i said, TKG is a great source of centralized info, it does have it's problems, but they are few,

"PS: what does you running linux have to do with the information on this website?"

It was an analogy to say that AB is not this open source platform which is "constantly updated, revised, and improved". It is wrought with disagreement, and you have to choose who to listen to in order to make a decision, so it's not this utopian open source platform that sasker seems to be suggesting. I would not use the word updated to describe AB, it's not relying on any centralized body of information such that it produces "updates". People do acquire more experience, sure, but that's far from an update. The rate at which experience is gained in this hobby, and can be measured. with regards to tarantulas is "did you breed x species". No one is really struggling to keep species alive that I have seen, we're not discovering a ton of new tarantulas, nor do I see arachnid studies posted, if ever. Please note that by me using the word "studies", I am not discrediting the collective experience of people on this boards. So pretty much what we have to go off of for UPDATES is breeding species, and that is not posted regularly. So I think it is quite the misrepresentation to describe AB as "constantly updated, revised, and improved".


Not sure what you're actually rebutting here.

 

[Jason B]

After seeing the above mention of the babies section, I will also point on this being outdated, I would never keep a sling from an arid species on damp substrate just because its a sling. And the need to fully assess the moisture of the substrate at every feeding. I keep my slings from arid species the same as I would their adult counterpart, except when the enclosure is to small to add a water bowl. In that case I will moisten a small part of there substrate roughly once a week. My slings have never desiccate because I have allowed the sub to dry out. Because I normally do allow it to dry, then I dampen that same part after its dried. Unless its the species of a sling that needs a high level of humidity, then its fine. Keeping a sling from one of the arid species, obt, gbb, rose hairs, in a high humidity enclosure simply because its a sling is just causing it unwanted stress.. a water source is ok, all of the substrate that they have being that water source is not.

 

[BishopiMaster]

After seeing the above mention of the babies section, I will also point on this being outdated, I would never keep a sling from an arid species on damp substrate just because its a sling. And the need to fully assess the moisture of the substrate at every feeding. I keep my slings from arid species the same as I would their adult counterpart, except when the enclosure is to small to add a water bowl. In that case I will moisten a small part of there substrate roughly once a week. My slings have never desiccate because I have allowed the sub to dry out. Because I normally do allow it to dry, then I dampen that same part after its dried. Unless its the species of a sling that needs a high level of humidity, then its fine. Keeping a sling from one of the arid species, obt, gbb, rose hairs, in a high humidity enclosure simply because its a sling is just causing it unwanted stress.. a water source is ok, all of the substrate that they have being that water source is not.

Yeah, we're just in fundamental disagreement here, younger tarantulas have not yet developed their waxy epicuticle to slow down the rate at which evaporation occurs, which is not "simply because it's a sling", there's something to be explored here. Your slings have survived, that does not mean that your method is "better".

 

[Venom1080]

How do you know this exactly?

i honestly dont. Poec54 used to say something along those lines. my bad.

@BishopiMaster i mean Aphonopelma, Brachypelma, Grammostola, Eupalaestrus, Euathlus.
had to finish up some cages. here goes.
-the advice for arid species is good. they dont really need anything.

- for the fossorial, Stan is way off on the C lividus. they absolutely require moist substrate to survive. keeping them in "effectively arid setups" is a good way to kill off pretty much any asian spider. dumping water down the burrow is probably unneeded, but i believe it would work fine.

- the caging advice is incorrect for the swamp dwellers. 10g is large enough for anything i think. ive certainly never heard of anyone forcing their Theraphosa or Ephebopus to adapt to dry conditions.

-Avics dont need dishes high up. i see mine at their dishes here and there. they also dont need high humidity. they require a dry climate for which high ventilation certainly helps. the care for the other 4 genera in the arboreal section is good.

all in all, not a great source of info, but still worth having. (2nd edition)


i will say that he gives wrong advice on Avicularia. (including Caribena and Ybyrapora)

 

[Jason B]

Yeah, we're just in fundamental disagreement here, younger tarantulas have not yet developed their waxy epicuticle to slow down the rate at which evaporation occurs, which is not "simply because it's a sling", there's something to be explored here. Your slings have survived, that does not mean that your method is "better".

Waxy epicuticle or not they don't require jungle like humidity 24/7 to survive, if that was indeed a fact they would be extinct, Even if you take into consideration of dew forming in the morning in the wild they still experience dry arid conditions some 90% of the time. Not to mention the fact that if you give these arid species an option between damp and dry substrate even as slings they will spend the vast majority of the time on the dry substrate with some species never going near the wet substrate.

Out of raising some 25-35 slings I've only lost 4, and in all cases I can attribute the fact that I was keeping them to 'wet' as the most likely cause of death, one of them being an Avic, 2 caribena, and one H. Mac.
After making some changes to my husbandry and going with a more dryer route when keeping these species I had success. Maybe there were more attributes involved I can't be sure this wasn't a controlled study by any means. But if when I kept them on damp substrate, they died, and when I switched it to mostly dry substrate with one section I dampened then allowed to dry before repeating the process they lived thats more then enough to convince me.

 

[BishopiMaster]

Waxy epicuticle or not they don't require jungle like humidity 24/7 to survive, if that was indeed a fact they would be extinct, Even if you take into consideration of dew forming in the morning in the wild they still experience dry arid conditions some 90% of the time. Not to mention the fact that if you give these arid species an option between damp and dry substrate even as slings they will spend the vast majority of the time on the dry substrate with some species never going near the wet substrate.

Out of raising some 25-35 slings I've only lost 4, and in all cases I can attribute the fact that I was keeping them to 'wet' as the most likely cause of death, one of them being an Avic, 2 caribena, and one H. Mac.
After making some changes to my husbandry and going with a more dryer route when keeping these species I had success. Maybe there were more attributes involved I can't be sure this wasn't a controlled study by any means. But if when I kept them on damp substrate, they died, and when I switched it to mostly dry substrate with one section I dampened then allowed to dry before repeating the process they lived thats more then enough to convince me.

You're missing how humid it is in some of these burrows, why do you think p. muticus burrows some several feet in the wild, preferentially next to roots?

"But if when I kept them on damp substrate, they died, and when I switched it to mostly dry substrate with one section I dampened then allowed to dry before repeating the process they lived thats more then enough to convince me."

Ok, so you're not keeping them dry, you are dampening a section.

 

[Venom1080]

You're missing how humid it is in some of these burrows, why do you think p. muticus burrows some several feet in the wild, preferentially next to roots?

"But if when I kept them on damp substrate, they died, and when I switched it to mostly dry substrate with one section I dampened then allowed to dry before repeating the process they lived thats more then enough to convince me."

Ok, so you're not keeping them dry, you are dampening a section.

kept my muticus bone dry for years with a dish.

 

[Jason B]

You're missing how humid it is in some of these burrows, why do you think p. muticus burrows some several feet in the wild, preferentially next to roots?

"But if when I kept them on damp substrate, they died, and when I switched it to mostly dry substrate with one section I dampened then allowed to dry before repeating the process they lived thats more then enough to convince me."

Ok, so you're not keeping them dry, you are dampening a section.

Yes however with some of the arid species i'm not completely positive that the spot which is usually 1/4 of the total enclosure does anything other then give me a piece of mine. And i'm refering to keeping arid species who flee from damp substrate if given the choice. I would not include P. Muticus in the category. What I'm saying is he states that if you let a slings enclosure dry out regardless of the species they will begin to immediately desiccate and as such you should never let it dry out completely. I am saying even sling care is more species dependent then that.. We used to as a hobby keep avics slings exactly like that.. and they had a high death rate because of it. The humidity we thought we had to have was actually causing the high death rate, we know better now. And if a species that lives in a jungle survival rate benefits by being kept drier. Why would it makes sense to keep an arid species that like a GBB, who never experience the humidity levels an avic does, in an enclosure thats completely damp and should never be allowed to dry.

 

[BishopiMaster]

Yes however with some of the arid species i'm not completely positive that the spot which is usually 1/4 of the total enclosure does anything other then give me a piece of mine. And i'm refering to keeping arid species who flee from damp substrate if given the choice. I would not include P. Muticus in the category. What I'm saying is he states that if you let a slings enclosure dry out regardless of the species they will begin to immediately desiccate and as such you should never let it dry out completely. I am saying even sling care is more species dependent then that.. We used to as a hobby keep avics slings exactly like that.. and they had a high death rate because of it. The humidity we thought we had to have was actually causing the high death rate, we know better now. And if a species that lives in a jungle survival rate benefits by being kept drier. Why would it makes sense to keep an arid species that like a GBB, who never experience the humidity levels an avic does, in an enclosure thats completely damp and should never be allowed to dry.

Presumably, because of their epicuticle. Well, he did say "entirely dry out", to be fair. I can appreciate the idea of keeping slings species dependent, but this argument rests on the differences of how impervious to evaporation slings are vs adults, and is beginning to go towards the study route.

I'd like to point out that environment is not necessarily black and white, you can have an arid condition, but if the spider sits underneath a hide, in which the humidity is, just throwing a number out there, 90% or so, and doesn't leave until they're larger, then that's something to be noted.

 

[Ellenantula]

We had a thread here a while back called TKG Points of Discussion which Rick started but Stan even posted to: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/tkg-points-of-discussion.271083/

(Just in case anyone is interested)

[edited to add: I keep searching the forum because I also thought Stan started a thread here requesting updated information for his upcoming 4th edition -- I must be mis-remembering since I cannot locate that thread. At one time, his site listed upcoming changes for the TKG]

 

[BishopiMaster]

We had a thread here a while back called TKG Points of Discussion which Rick started but Stan even posted to: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/tkg-points-of-discussion.271083/

(Just in case anyone is interested)

[edited to add: I keep searching the forum because I also thought Stan started a thread here requesting updated information for his upcoming 4th edition -- I must be mis-remembering since I cannot locate that thread. At one time, his site listed upcoming changes for the TKG]

That thread should really be made a sticky, I will thoroughly read it over the next few days, thank you.

 

[Tanner Dzula]

"By no means are experienced people on here suggesting that you keep, say, a T. Blondi the same way. "

-Where did I say this?

"and many people have already pointed out MANY of the issues the book has already.
nobody is saying that the book is garbage or anything, but much like you have pointed out about this website, the book has some problems."

- Nobody said the book was perfect, not even me, I only seek to rebut the claims regarding humidity and a few others.

"and again, updated?: literally, minute by minute updates by individual keepers and enthusiasts. as good as the book is, it is based off of 1 mans Experiences and knowledge. this is a website filled with literally thousands of keepers collective experience"

- And thousands of differences of opinion as I am explaining now, like i said, TKG is a great source of centralized info, it does have it's problems, but they are few,

"PS: what does you running linux have to do with the information on this website?"

It was an analogy to say that AB is not this open source platform which is "constantly updated, revised, and improved". It is wrought with disagreement, and you have to choose who to listen to in order to make a decision, so it's not this utopian open source platform that sasker seems to be suggesting. I would not use the word updated to describe AB, it's not relying on any centralized body of information such that it produces "updates". People do acquire more experience, sure, but that's far from an update. The rate at which experience is gained in this hobby, and can be measured. with regards to tarantulas is "did you breed x species". No one is really struggling to keep species alive that I have seen, we're not discovering a ton of new tarantulas, nor do I see arachnid studies posted, if ever. Please note that by me using the word "studies", I am not discrediting the collective experience of people on this boards. So pretty much what we have to go off of for UPDATES is breeding species, and that is not posted regularly. So I think it is quite the misrepresentation to describe AB as "constantly updated, revised, and improved".


Not sure what you're actually rebutting here.

"No one is really struggling to keep species alive that I have seen, we're not discovering a ton of new tarantulas, nor do I see arachnid studies posted, if ever. Please note that by me using the word "studies""

^^ this just goes to show that you have not spent much time on this board, aside from the number of pointless arguments you always seem to find a way to get into.

No studies? thats ironic, there are numerous scientific studies that have been posted about and conducted by many members of this board. if you ACTUALLY searched for them, you would probably be more aware of it.
EVERY single time a species or genus is revised, it is immediately posted on here.

and as for discovering "a ton of new tarantulas"
do you understand how these things work? its not like you can wake up monday, discover a new species, and have it published officially by wednesday.

there are hundreds of hours of studies that go into this. days, weeks and even months of travel, specimen identification, more studies ETC.
and the publication time for that? I've seen it take over a year for a New Species to be fully confirmed and then officially published. and it taking a year? thats actually pretty quick!

the funny part is, usually species end up on here being breed and sold BEFORE They are "technically" discovered and published.

much in the same way that somebody previously mentioned that before t. Stirmi was officially considered to be T. Stirmi, it was here in the hobby.



and have you considered what happens if the information in that "centralized" source is not 100% accurate? because its published and documented, people automatically follow it to a T as if it were The law, which in the case of some of the situations with this book(few, as the book itself is a good source of information, but simply outdated) the information is not updated at all.

its ironic that you argue that this website is not "updated" when the argument is centralized around a printed document that has not been "updated" since the day it was printed. period.

at least on here, as more information enters the hobby, people opinions and advised changes, but thats not the case with the book until a new edition is printed.

i also truly don't think you understand what "open-sourced" means. you complain that on here you have to "choose" between sets of information because everybody here is allowed to post about it. how is that not in a way, open-sourced?

 

[BishopiMaster]

"No one is really struggling to keep species alive that I have seen, we're not discovering a ton of new tarantulas, nor do I see arachnid studies posted, if ever. Please note that by me using the word "studies""

^^ this just goes to show that you have not spent much time on this board, aside from the number of pointless arguments you always seem to find a way to get into.

No studies? thats ironic, there are numerous scientific studies that have been posted about and conducted by many members of this board. if you ACTUALLY searched for them, you would probably be more aware of it.
EVERY single time a species or genus is revised, it is immediately posted on here.

nd as for discovering "a ton of new tarantulas"
do you understand how these things work? its not like you can wake up monday, discover a new species, and have it published officially by wednesday. a

there are hundreds of hours of studies that go into this. days, weeks and even months of travel, specimen identification, more studies ETC.
and the publication time for that? I've seen it take over a year for a New Species to be fully confirmed and then officially published. and it taking a year? thats actually pretty quick!

the funny part is, usually species end up on here being breed and sold BEFORE They are "technically" discovered and published.

much in the same way that somebody previously mentioned that before t. Stirmi was officially considered to be T. Stirmi, it was here in the hobby.



and have you considered what happens if the information in that "centralized" source is not 100% accurate? because its published and documented, people automatically follow it to a T as if it were The law, which in the case of some of the situations with this book(few, as the book itself is a good source of information, but simply outdated) the information is not updated at all.

its ironic that you argue that this website is not "updated" when the argument is centralized around a printed document that has not been "updated" since the day it was printed. period.

at least on here, as more information enters the hobby, people opinions and advised changes, but thats not the case with the book until a new edition is printed.

i also truly don't think you understand what "open-sourced" means. you complain that on here you have to "choose" between sets of information because everybody here is allowed to post about it. how is that not in a way, open-sourced?

"No studies? thats ironic, there are numerous scientific studies that have been posted about and conducted by many members of this board. if you ACTUALLY searched for them, you would probably be more aware of it.
EVERY single time a species or genus is revised, it is immediately posted on here."

You're playing a semantics game, go right now to any of the tarantula forums, tarantula chat, tarantula questions and discussions, you will not see studies posted in a way that is representational of the boards. There is a link http://arachnoboards.com/threads/li...blished-in-2012-updated-15-march-2012.226422/
It does have a list of studies, but these links are not thrown around sir, they are not representational of the arachnoboards user experience, let us judge a forum by the forum and not sticky threads.

"And as for discovering "a ton of new tarantulas"
do you understand how these things work? its not like you can wake up monday, discover a new species, and have it published officially by wednesday"

So you're right, you can't call AB constantly updated, revised, and improved, can you? Thanks for proving my point.

"and have you considered what happens if the information in that "centralized" source is not 100% accurate? because its published and documented, people automatically follow it to a T as if it were The law, which in the case of some of the situations with this book(few, as the book itself is a good source of information, but simply outdated) the information is not updated at all. "

- I've stated twice now, along with numerous others, that the information in TKG is not ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ACCURATE, my rebuttals regard the humidity explanations, primarily.

"i also truly don't think you understand what "open-sourced" means. you complain that on here you have to "choose" between sets of information because everybody here is allowed to post about it. how is that not in a way, open-sourced?"

- This is just your lack of nuance, you're not comprehending the context here, sasker called AB constantly updated, revised, and improved, in a way that is parallel with what open source is, which was the analogy, I'm not going to get into a semantics debate with you about what open source is, my main point is that AB is not a utopian, constantly updated, revised, and improved source.


"its ironic that you argue that this website is not "updated" when the argument is centralized around a printed document that has not been "updated" since the day it was printed. period"

- This is just a false comparison, and it bridges upon your earlier point of TKG being perfect, which no one said it was. Furthermore, no one said the TKG was updated, and if you're using this point to make a case for AB over the TKG, refer to my earlier points. Just because TKG is not updated, that does not mean that AB is "updated", you're not understanding the context and usefulness of an update, again, the user experience of AB is to go through disagreement after disagreement such as we are having now.

 

[Jason B]

We had a thread here a while back called TKG Points of Discussion which Rick started but Stan even posted to: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/tkg-points-of-discussion.271083/

(Just in case anyone is interested)

[edited to add: I keep searching the forum because I also thought Stan started a thread here requesting updated information for his upcoming 4th edition -- I must be mis-remembering since I cannot locate that thread. At one time, his site listed upcoming changes for the TKG]

That thread ended with some disappointment, the last 2-3 pages were stan running a contest for someone to come up with a better name then swamp dwellers, and the second to last post was on jan 2016 with stan saying he would announce the winner in a week, yet there is no reference to the winner and the last post is you. lol. Alot of what @Poec54 stated in that thread still hold true today. And I'm my referencing the breeding technique here not whether Stan kept mostly NW terrestrials, though that comment does seem to have some truth to it. Its like the one guy from Europe was talking about how breeders their fluctuate temps, flood cages, and how we should be documenting and experimenting with this as much as possible. At this point I can say I've kept over 60 some Ts during my time in the hobby. And I know little to nothing about enviromental conditions most of these species experience before their breeding season. I've kept 7 crested geckos and I can tell you off the top of my head that they need to be cooled for a few months which helps with breeding after the cooling period, I can't remember but the temps are off my head but thats not the point. If we knew the triggers we might be able to cut down the number of times a female is not receptive and eats the male instead.

 

[sasker]

sasker called AB constantly updated, revised, and improved, in a way that is parallel with what open source is

I am getting a bit sick and tired of the way you put words in other people's mouths and then start to personally attack these people. You are doing it here, you do it in other threads. It's annoying, people don't like it, and it is because of people like you that AB stops being fun. I never drew a parallel to open source. You did, when you involved Linux. I never said that there are constant updates of AB as it it were a software product.

my main point is that AB is not a utopian, constantly updated, revised, and improved source

I never claimed that AB is a perfect (or in your words, Utopian) source. I simply stated that so far I found the information I needed on this platform, that the information is less prone to becoming obsolete than a static book and that I personally did not see the need to buy the book.

And thousands of differences of opinion

That's simply not true. Those who keep and breed tarantulas for years all agree on many things. For one, they agree that the TKG is a good source of information but that there is also much information in the book that is outdated. It is fairly easy to discern if someone who posts has much experience and has something interesting to say or if someone is just reproducing something that he/she read or heard somewhere.

the user experience of AB is to go through disagreement after disagreement such as we are having now

Exactly, you disagree with many things that is being said on AB. You create disagreement after disagreement. But it is simply not true that AB is a collection of disagreements (although you seem to work really hard to make it that way). Overall, I find Arachnoboards to be an informative place where people share their experiences in a pleasant, respectful way. Personally, I don't have much trouble finding valuable information among the clutter, such as this thread has unfortunately become.

You're playing a semantics game

No, you are playing semantics games by picking a few words from someone's post and starting a hair-splitting rant.

 

[Moakmeister]

I was thinking about buying this book, but I decided not to. So far, all information I needed I could find on AB, all proven techniques, thoroughly discussed with first hand experiences, constantly updated, enhanced and improved. And the best thing: it's for free

Who the heck disliked that?

 

[Venom1080]

Who the heck disliked that?

click on the "list" button.

 

[BishopiMaster]

I am getting a bit sick and tired of the way you put words in other people's mouths and then start to personally attack these people. You are doing it here, you do it in other threads. It's annoying, people don't like it, and it is because of people like you that AB stops being fun. I never drew a parallel to open source. You did, when you involved Linux. I never said that there are constant updates of AB as it it were a software product.



I never claimed that AB is a perfect (or in your words, Utopian) source. I simply stated that so far I found the information I needed on this platform, that the information is less prone to becoming obsolete than a static book and that I personally did not see the need to buy the book.



That's simply not true. Those who keep and breed tarantulas for years all agree on many things. For one, they agree that the TKG is a good source of information but that there is also much information in the book that is outdated. It is fairly easy to discern if someone who posts has much experience and has something interesting to say or if someone is just reproducing something that he/she read or heard somewhere.



Exactly, you disagree with many things that is being said on AB. You create disagreement after disagreement. But it is simply not true that AB is a collection of disagreements (although you seem to work really hard to make it that way). Overall, I find Arachnoboards to be an informative place where people share their experiences in a pleasant, respectful way. Personally, I don't have much trouble finding valuable information among the clutter, such as this thread has unfortunately become.



No, you are playing semantics games by picking a few words from someone's post and starting a hair-splitting rant.

"I am getting a bit sick and tired of the way you put words in other people's mouths and then start to personally attack these people. You are doing it here, you do it in other threads. It's annoying, people don't like it, and it is because of people like you that AB stops being fun. I never drew a parallel to open source. You did, when you involved Linux. I never said that there are constant updates of AB as it it were a software product. "

- I never put any words in your mouth, you are the one who described AB as constantly updated, revised, and improved, which i deem to be a utopian fantasy, and I, me personally, have used an analogy to provide a common sense meaning of constantly updated, revised, and improved, such as an open source project as Linux is, which is not a product, by the way.


"I never claimed that AB is a perfect (or in your words, Utopian) source. I simply stated that so far I found the information I needed on this platform, that the information is less prone to becoming obsolete than a static book and that I personally did not see the need to buy the book"

- Nah, I'd say your explanation sums it up perfectly, which I'll quote again:

"I was thinking about buying this book, but I decided not to. So far, all information I needed I could find on AB, all proven techniques, thoroughly discussed with first hand experiences, constantly updated, enhanced and improved. And the best thing: it's for free "

- This I deem to be a utopian explanation for the reasons: all of the above, and please do not be intellectually dishonest, your explanation was not merely that "AB is 'less prone' to becoming obsolete, it was absolutely profound.

"No, you are playing semantics games by picking a few words from someone's post and starting a hair-splitting rant."

- An allegation of cherry picking? Ha! if you think I'm playing on semantics, I'm happy to discuss this with you, just provide me an example.

"Exactly, you disagree with many things that is being said on AB. You create disagreement after disagreement. But it is simply not true that AB is a collection of disagreements (although you seem to work really hard to make it that way). Overall, I find Arachnoboards to be an informative place where people share their experiences in a pleasant, respectful way. Personally, I don't have much trouble finding valuable information among the clutter, such as this thread has unfortunately become."

- No one said that AB was "a collection of disagreements", I personally said that it was wrought with disagreement, which is true, and if you think that's limited to me then you have an unrealistic view of things. I'll put it to you this way, you're moving from point A to point C, you start at point A, the user, you have to go through point B, the filter of disagreement, then you get to point C, the information, simple enough.

I'd also like to offer you a gem of wisdom, if you find my comments so inflammatory, stop engaging in them, I think you've brought me up in like 3 threads now where I haven't directly addressed you. One of the great things about open discussion areas like forums, is that you can choose who to discuss with, so, how about stop addressing my posts if you dislike them so much, find someone you like to respond to.

 

[sasker]

I'd also like to offer you a gem of wisdom, if you find my comments so inflammatory, stop engaging in them

Thanks for the advice. I just put you in my 'ignore list'.