Just exactly how uninformed is the general public?

Pheonixx

Arachnoprince
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heres the bill
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A02684&sh=t

heres a memo version of it
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A02684&sh=

heres what i disagree with ...basicly it says that unless we get permits (i believe dog licenses cost 45$ what would a snake, monitor or even a Tarantula cost?) they can seize the animals and its "tough S*&^" for us. i dont like the fact that NY state out of fear or profit need makes us have to have permits, licensces or certificates to say we can keep our animals. not to mention if we dont keep them to thier "standards"(this means when they know we have these pets they can stop by when ever they want to "check up" on them) they will fine us and seize the animals. Thus costing us MORE money for storage, feeding etc...
(ever had to pick your dog up from the pound? last time it cost me over 200$
for a one day stay!)
*the including but not limited to part basicly says anything the game warden finds to be exotic falls under this law, i would think T's are exotic right? they are certianly not native to NY. right now i have 5 T's and if a permit was 30$ each it would cost me 150$ just so i can never breed or sell them. gee that sounds nice huh? not to mention i doubt NY will be charging as little as 30$. some of you guys have hundreds of T's you could be looking at THOUSANDS of dollars to keep them.
Section 1. Legislative findings. The legislature finds that keeping
2 exotic animals as pets poses a serious threat to the health and safety
3 of New York state residents. Wild animals, including but not limited to ,
4 monkeys, tigers and venomous snakes, are readily available for purchase
5 throughout New York state.


SUBJECT TO THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 11-0512 OF THIS ARTICLE, NO
50 person shall, except under a license or permit first obtained from the
51 department containing the prominent warning notice specified in subdivi-
52 sion nine of section 11-0917 of this article, possess, transport or
53 cause to be transported, imported or exported any live wolf, wolfdog,
54 coyote, coydog, fox, skunk, venomous reptile or raccoon, endangered
55 species designated pursuant to section 11-0535 {hereof} OF THIS TITLE,
56 species named in section 11-0536 OF THIS TITLE or other species of

A. 2684--F 3

1 native or non-native live wildlife or fish where the department finds
2 that possession, transportation, importation or exportation of such
3 species of wildlife or fish would present a danger to the health or
4 welfare of the people of the state, an individual resident or indigenous
5 fish or wildlife population. Environmental conservation officers, forest
6 rangers and members of the state police may seize every such animal
7 possessed without such license or permit. No action for damages shall
8 lie for such seizure, and disposition of seized animals shall be at the
9 discretion of the department.
 

MizM

Arachnoprincess
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Well, I would NEVER agree to pass ANYTHING with such a loose description as

"...other species of native or non-native live wildlife or fish where the department finds that possession, transportation, importation or exportation of such species of wildlife or fish would present a danger to the health or welfare of the people of the state, an individual resident or indigenous fish or wildlife population..."

Granted, I understand their position. Feral species can wreak havoc on native flora and fauna. But I think they are going about it incorrectly. As the bill states NOW, they could decide as they go along exactly which species THEY deem unacceptable. IMHO, a campaign to list which SPECIFIC SPECIES will be banned would be a more successful one than trying to get them to drop the whole matter. Because they WILL impose a ban. :(
 

Pheonixx

Arachnoprince
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any help you could provide would be wonderful...you see how the text of the bill is so loose? that list would include T's if someone got a wild hair up their A*&...
 

MizM

Arachnoprincess
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Sure, love to. What exactly does the petition SAY?
 

protheus

Arachnoknight
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Pheonixx said:
heres what i disagree with ...basicly it says that unless we get permits (i believe dog licenses cost 45$ what would a snake, monitor or even a Tarantula cost?) they can seize the animals and its "tough S*&^" for us.
Actually, it reads even worse than that to me, basically saying that no matter what, they can seize the animals, for no particularly good reason.

I think they should add a clause which requires them to provide homes for the rest of the animals' natural lives. ;)

Chris
 

MizM

Arachnoprincess
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Mmmm, good point!

And just maybe that would deter them from confiscating a 50 T collection!!! {D
 

sojkas

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Aug 22, 2003
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Heh, I thought we have stupid law in Poland ( in 2/3 months I'll finish law studies).
So breeding is banned?
Because in Poland we had to register all animals on CITES app. II. Brachypelmas included. For each animal -separate set of papers. But breeding was allowed. So just imagine what would you have to do, when you breed eg. B.smithi {D If you wanted to do everything legally, you had to register EACH spiderling. Approx. 4 pages of paper for EACH little one. :?
But it was fixed...

OTOH in Poland keeping venomus snakes is banned.
 

Pheonixx

Arachnoprince
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@ MIZIM: my petition is labled only as you saw...i will be mailing the signatures to the govenor when i think i have enough, say 500 or so?
feel free to provide help my sending links to the petition to anyone you know who cares.

@protheus that would be a sweet idea...
 

MizM

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MizM said:
New York State has a bill ready to go into effect banning venemous pets. Not limited to but including; boas, pythons, monitors, crocodilians and venomous species of reptiles. If this law is passed owners will be required to obtain permits for the animals they currently have. Owners will not be allowed to breed them. If owners are not granted a permit, they will be required to hand the animal over to animal control. The animal will most likely be destroyed! We cant let this happen. What pets are next? Cats and dogs? I don't remember the last time I saw someone get eaten by a snake or monitor lizard on the news.
(I corrected the above!)
I might sign a petition that stated particulars and asked for certain things, such as:

This petition is in regards to New York State Assembly Bill A02684.

As a collector of tarantuals (Theraphosidae) from all around the world, I am concerned with the proposal of this Bill. Tarantulas in captivity are not a threat to the general public nor the local flora and fauna. They are kept in secure enclosures and are not free roaming. Bill A02684 would effectively end the hobby of tarantula collecting as most collections have many individuals and licensing them would make the cost of the hobby prohibitive.

Section 1 states "Across the country, children have been mauled by tigers, asphyxiated by snakes, and bitten by monkeys. Wild animals kept as pets can transmit serious diseases to people, including Herpes B, Salmonella and Ebola virus."
I petition the state do a case study on the above ocurrences in New York State and publish the findings prior to passing of the bill.

Section 2 includes the statment "...or other species of
A. 2684--F 3
1 native or non-native live wildlife"
I petition that this bill exclude insects and/or arachnids, particularly Theraphosidae.

Section 2 includes the statment "disposition of seized animals shall be at the
9 discretion of the department."
I petition that the disposition of seized animals shall be handled in a humane manner.

IMHO, when you petition for something, you need to tell them exactly what you want from them.
 

FryLock

Banned
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Humm very tired but must make this point… 500 monkey keepers make a petition to stop monkeys being added to a banning law no one cares it goes though… 5000 T keepers make a petition to stop T’s being added to a banning law on one cares some more… 10000 herp keepers do the same now a few care.. 100000 fish keeper do the same this time a lot more care.. 100000 bird keepers do now your getting some were a LOT more care.. you all stick tight and stick to your guns then you have a good chance of getting it scraped, united you stand divided.. you know that bit ;)
 

Pheonixx

Arachnoprince
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Mizim...

you make a good point there. however the text i put in there is only a tid bit of info on why I am doing the petition, hindsight being 20/20 i should have included the links to the states bill and such...but all i plan to send the govenor is the signatures...and a letter do you mind if i save your post for refrence when i write the letter?
 

MizM

Arachnoprincess
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Pheonixx said:
Mizim...

you make a good point there. however the text i put in there is only a tid bit of info on why I am doing the petition, hindsight being 20/20 i should have included the links to the states bill and such...but all i plan to send the govenor is the signatures...and a letter do you mind if i save your post for refrence when i write the letter?
Not at all!! I think I am misunderstanding here though!! I thought the quote at the top of my post was the entire petition! :8o
 

Pheonixx

Arachnoprince
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no i have been writing letters to my assembly man, i called the govenors office and told the local petstores about this. The assemblyman in out district was opposed to this bill initialy and agrees with me somewhat. i figure i can get alot of support on the boards here and on ST. many petshops, and hobbyists stand to lose a great deal. the state just wants more $$$ and does not care about the little guy, since this one affects me i am taking as much of a stand as i know how.

thanks for letting me copy the info you posted i wont plagerize you, i'll just use it as a refrence.
 

LAking

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I work in a pet shop and every weekend (when the store is busy) i see/meet people who believe all types of myths about spider/snakes/lizards. The people who get me somewhat angry or frustrated are the ones (usually mothers) who refuse to let their kid see the reptile section because they "hate snakes" or think that "those animals are disgusting". Ok fine, you have a fear that you just can't get over (or don't want to get over), but don't pass that fear on to your child. Every time a parent says "that's disgusting" or "don't go near them" they are passing on an irrational fear to their children. Why deny your child the chance to learn something? Just the sight of a parent showing fear in a particular situation will help embed that same fear into a childs mind. Those are the people who kind of piss me off.

As far as the people who have been brought up on myths, at least they are usually willing to learn. I often hear: "Aren't you scared?" It's almost always kids or teenagers who say that one. I then pick up the animal i'm tending to (if possible) and say "no, there's no reason to, it's not going to hurt me".
I also hear "Isn't it venomous". Lots of kids think that the snakes are venomous. Some adults ask that question too but you can tell they are somewhat expecting me to say no. To me it's just common sense. First of all, would i really just pick up a venomous snake in my bare hands? Second, do you really think your average pet store would even carry an animal that could very possibly kill the customers? I guess the kids would have a harder time rationalizing the situation, but you would think at least the H.S. students would figure it out. I always enjoy passing on the facts and dispelling the myths. Like others have said, most people are pretty interested once you start talking about the animals. I do as much as possible to explain that most if not all the "exotic" animals we have are pretty harmless and often very docile. It's unfortunate that i have to educate so many people on how not so deadly or mean these animals are, but at the same time, i enjoy passing on the info and possibly helping someone learn to respect the animals.
 

Alias

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Mr. Rourke said:
Another phone favorite:
ME: Hello?
CALLER: Do you have anyone who knows a lot about reptiles?
ME: Well, I have some experience. Maybe I could help....what's your question?
CALLER: I need to know how to take care of an armadillo.

And the best I can recall:
ME: Can I help you, ma'am?
CUSTOMER: Yes, I need to get one of those little turtles for my granddaughter, but I can't find them anywhere?
ME: Uhh...what kind of turtle are you talking about?
CUSTOMER: You know, one of those that lives in a fishbowl? The little ones, just a little bigger than a quarter?
ME: Ahhh. Sorry, but the state prohibits sale of turtles under 4" due to the Salmonella risk.
CUSTOMER: (looks at me like I'm crazy)
ME: (long-winded explanation of Salmonella risk, kids putting turtles in mouths, etc.)
CUSTOMER: (finally accepts that she can't get one, looks momentarily distraught, then brightens) OK, what do you have that's LIKE a little turtle?
ME: (not laughing, swear to God) Another turtle. Only bigger.

my favorite:

two middle aged women come into petstore. for some time the walk around the shop, observing the animals, but aren´t looking too interested. until they stop in front of an enclosure labeled "gekoncik nocni" (czech common name for leopard gecko). it´s 4PM and all geckos are hidden of course, but a large Zophobas is crawling near the front glass.

Woman1 (pointing at the "worm" and slowly reading the label): look, ge-kon-cik noc-ni.
Woman2 (admiring look): hmmm.
 

Alias

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sojkas said:
Heh, I thought we have stupid law in Poland ( in 2/3 months I'll finish law studies).
So breeding is banned?
Because in Poland we had to register all animals on CITES app. II. Brachypelmas included. For each animal -separate set of papers. But breeding was allowed. So just imagine what would you have to do, when you breed eg. B.smithi {D If you wanted to do everything legally, you had to register EACH spiderling. Approx. 4 pages of paper for EACH little one. :?
But it was fixed...

OTOH in Poland keeping venomus snakes is banned.
not to mention that each CITES animal has to be marked. how do you mark a tarantula? metal band on its leg? ;P

btw, in Czech law, only vertebrates are considered animals. invertebrates are probably just....thingies? {D
 

MilkmanWes

Arachnobaron
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Time for a novices question here...

What is the CITES list? Getting some ideas from the context, but would love an explanation of it since I seem to be the only one that doesant know.
 

Alias

Arachnosquire
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MilkmanWes said:
Time for a novices question here...

What is the CITES list? Getting some ideas from the context, but would love an explanation of it since I seem to be the only one that doesant know.
If you don´t know something, ask the allmighty Google {D

or look directly here:

http://www.cites.org/
 

MrFeexit

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I guess we could take solace in the fact that most cities can't afford basic services so an added burden of animal inspector storm troopers would probably cost way to much to implement on any adequate scale. However that said it still is a slap in the face of the whole "Land of the Free" thing.
 
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