Jumping spider baby mystery, + what do babies eat?

[kamakiri]

My story is a weird one. First of all, let me establish myself as an unwitting jumping spider afficionado: in late July 2018 almost by accident I caught a small spider that was hopping around my Montreal 8th floor condo.

Well, my policy is to gently escort any spiders or other insects to the balcony, because my wife is terrified of all insects, but for some reason I had been reading about jumping spiders somewhere and was able to identify this one as a jumping spider, although he was only about the size of a large grain of rice.

Anyway, I fashioned a quick enclosure out of a largish food container with some potting soil on the bottom (about 8mm deep) and a couple of fake twigs from an orchid display. I covered it (brilliant move!) in one of my wife's nylon stockings.

The spider seemed bemused by this arrangement but was seemingly happy with it. Then I set about finding things for him to eat. I found a few small beetles in the garden downstairs and I actually filmed my spider jumping on one (actually, the video is from the day before I made the enclosure) but imagine my joy when I found another jumping spider in the garden downstairs.

This one was about the same size, so I put it in the enclosure and all was quiet for a while, until one day I noticed that one of the spiders had disappeared . . . I was crushed, but I figured he'd been the meal of the other.

Flash forward over several weeks; every so often I would not see my spider for several days. I just assumed he had died and readied myself to ditch the container. But then he would pop up, looking none the worse for wear!

But then one day, about two weeks ago (beginning of October, 2018) after I had noticed my spider being "gone" for several days, imagine my sheer astonishment when all of a sudden, out she pops, looking radiant, and then I saw several—I'd say about four—tiny creatures crawling on the insides of the container. With my magnifying glass I ID'd them as definitely jumping spiders, albeit about the size of pin-heads (1.5mm) . . .

Last night I found a fruit fly in my kitchen hanging around my honey jar and I managed to snag it. I introduced it to the enclosure and I was astonished to see how fast my spider caught it (and then disappeared!)

But my question is not about her, it's about the tiny spiders—now I count only two but there may be more on the potting soil that I can't see—what will they eat? They're so small I fear for their lives if the mother is around—or indeed if their siblings are around!

I wouldn't have a clue how to move them out of there nor do I know whether I even should. Perhaps the mother is feeding them somehow?

I'm looking into a terrarium of some sort but when the time comes, how can I move the babies? and in the meantime, how can I feed them? My thanks to everyone in advance! Nick

 

[WildSpider]

My story is a weird one. First of all, let me establish myself as an unwitting jumping spider afficionado: in late July 2018 almost by accident I caught a small spider that was hopping around my Montreal 8th floor condo.

Well, my policy is to gently escort any spiders or other insects to the balcony, because my wife is terrified of all insects, but for some reason I had been reading about jumping spiders somewhere and was able to identify this one as a jumping spider, although he was only about the size of a large grain of rice.

Anyway, I fashioned a quick enclosure out of a largish food container with some potting soil on the bottom (about 8mm deep) and a couple of fake twigs from an orchid display. I covered it (brilliant move!) in one of my wife's nylon stockings.

The spider seemed bemused by this arrangement but was seemingly happy with it. Then I set about finding things for him to eat. I found a few small beetles in the garden downstairs and I actually filmed my spider jumping on one (actually, the video is from the day before I made the enclosure) but imagine my joy when I found another jumping spider in the garden downstairs.

This one was about the same size, so I put it in the enclosure and all was quiet for a while, until one day I noticed that one of the spiders had disappeared . . . I was crushed, but I figured he'd been the meal of the other.

Flash forward over several weeks; every so often I would not see my spider for several days. I just assumed he had died and readied myself to ditch the container. But then he would pop up, looking none the worse for wear!

But then one day, about two weeks ago (beginning of October, 2018) after I had noticed my spider being "gone" for several days, imagine my sheer astonishment when all of a sudden, out she pops, looking radiant, and then I saw several—I'd say about four—tiny creatures crawling on the insides of the container. With my magnifying glass I ID'd them as definitely jumping spiders, albeit about the size of pin-heads (1.5mm) . . .

Last night I found a fruit fly in my kitchen hanging around my honey jar and I managed to snag it. I introduced it to the enclosure and I was astonished to see how fast my spider caught it (and then disappeared!)

But my question is not about her, it's about the tiny spiders—now I count only two but there may be more on the potting soil that I can't see—what will they eat? They're so small I fear for their lives if the mother is around—or indeed if their siblings are around!

I wouldn't have a clue how to move them out of there nor do I know whether I even should. Perhaps the mother is feeding them somehow?

I'm looking into a terrarium of some sort but when the time comes, how can I move the babies? and in the meantime, how can I feed them? My thanks to everyone in advance! Nick

Sounds like a fun project . You could try buying some flightless fruitflies online or from the petstore (petstore might be faster).

For separating the slings, here's a fun video (skip to 5:16 to get to the transferring):

 

[kamakiri]

Hehe . . . wow! It took me a second to figure out what a "sling" was! This guy's method is pretty cool—I didn't see the part where he tells how he constructs the straws. What's that mesh material on the end? My "slings" are truly minuscule—not much larger than this bullet: • —(hope that publishes as well as it looks on my screen) so the mesh on the straw would have to be truly tiny. Plus how does he get them out again once they're in the straw?

I guess I'll watch his video from beginning to end to see if my questions are answered there.

Oh yeah, quite in spite of myself I actually found a wingless fruitfly seller on my local classifieds board (kijiji) and she seems to be a novice at this as well (she sells dart frogs. (?))

Anyway, the flies should be showing up Monday morning. I'm going to try to transfer this whole little spider family to a better container in the near future—any suggestions? I love amazon.ca so maybe if you could find something good there I could pick it up. I was thinking of using sand as a base instead of soil—is that okay for the spiders? It would just be cleaner and I could see what was going on better.

Such a great hobby—sure beats Betta collecting! Thanks for your help in advance! -- Nick

 

[WildSpider]

Hehe . . . wow! It took me a second to figure out what a "sling" was! This guy's method is pretty cool—I didn't see the part where he tells how he constructs the straws. What's that mesh material on the end? My "slings" are truly minuscule—not much larger than this bullet: • —(hope that publishes as well as it looks on my screen) so the mesh on the straw would have to be truly tiny. Plus how does he get them out again once they're in the straw?

I guess I'll watch his video from beginning to end to see if my questions are answered there.

Oh yeah, quite in spite of myself I actually found a wingless fruitfly seller on my local classifieds board (kijiji) and she seems to be a novice at this as well (she sells dart frogs. (?))

Anyway, the flies should be showing up Monday morning. I'm going to try to transfer this whole little spider family to a better container in the near future—any suggestions? I love amazon.ca so maybe if you could find something good there I could pick it up. I was thinking of using sand as a base instead of soil—is that okay for the spiders? It would just be cleaner and I could see what was going on better.

Such a great hobby—sure beats Betta collecting! Thanks for your help in advance! -- Nick

He uses a nylon stocking on the end. To get them back out, he just blows into the straw.

I can't really say which container is the best buy. I mostly just use modified jars for my spiders (I'm pretty cheap). I'm sure some others have some good ideas of nice ones to buy. When you do buy a container, make sure that the container comes with cross ventilation or that it will be possible for you to make the holes for the cross ventilation. Be sure the holes are small enough that the babies won't get out. If you can't make small enough holes for them, you could cut a larger hole in the side and put some nylon stocking over it. I use some old ballet stocking for these kinds of things. I think this type of mesh (cheese cloth is another of this type of mesh) is the best kind to use as a spider can get their tibial hooks stuck in larger meshes.

A lot of different keepers use a lot of different kinds of substrate. I tend to like peat moss, organic potting soil or no substrate at all. I have heard of keepers using sand for certain species and I have also heard of keepers mixing sand in with their other substrates. I found an old thread (I must've had the same question at one point as I actually saved it to my computer, lol) discussing sand for Ts (tarantulas) but these aren't true spiders so I can't be sure that the same thing applies for jumpers. Here's the thread: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/why-is-sand-harmful-for-ts.56867/

I think potting soil is my current favorite substrate for my true spiders as I find it doesn't mold so easily and it's something they're around quite a bit outside at my house.

Hope this helps .

 

[kamakiri]

It's so weird that just by random instinct I set up my spiders' home correctly—with potting soil on the bottom, a couple of twigs to climb on and some of my wife's nylon stockings as a mesh roofing material.

I had considered just poking holes in a plastic top to the container (it's an ordinary Tupperware-type rectangular tall container) but then I figured the air would not circulate enough.

But it's a pretty cheesy amateur "collector"-type temporary thing . . . I figure if I'm going to make this a serious hobby, like my action-figure collection and scale model building and all those typical male-angst-getting-old fascinations, I should spring for a good-looking glass container maybe with its own light, maybe some terrarium-type accoutrements like cacti (?), coloured sand, y'know . . . the whole shebang, if I can and my wife permits me!

But first-fold in any habitat priorities obviously would be the spiders' well-being!

As it is, I'm a little freaked out that my original one spider somehow hatched new little ones, completely out of the blue! Indeed, Basin79, who I believe also hangs out here, questioned whether it was actually *mites* that I was seeing, not spiders. Because one would expect more than two or three babies, if indeed the jumper had been pregnant all along . . . and where is its egg sac, nest, or whatever else it's supposed to have? All that stuff not being there threw me for a real loop, after I spied the tiny ones. Not that I'm complaining!

Okay, I trolled Amazon and haven't really found anything that fits all the bills. so maybe I'll mosey on over to my local florist and see what they might have in the way of containers. They might even be amenable to decking one out to my specs, as they did to my Macintosh Plus-shell-cum-aquarium thing a decade or two back.

Come Monday I'll be getting my wingless fruitflies and the scene is likely to really get wild!

Naturally I'll keep you all posted! --Nick

 

[WildSpider]

It's so weird that just by random instinct I set up my spiders' home correctly—with potting soil on the bottom, a couple of twigs to climb on and some of my wife's nylon stockings as a mesh roofing material.

I had considered just poking holes in a plastic top to the container (it's an ordinary Tupperware-type rectangular tall container) but then I figured the air would not circulate enough.

But it's a pretty cheesy amateur "collector"-type temporary thing . . . I figure if I'm going to make this a serious hobby, like my action-figure collection and scale model building and all those typical male-angst-getting-old fascinations, I should spring for a good-looking glass container maybe with its own light, maybe some terrarium-type accoutrements like cacti (?), coloured sand, y'know . . . the whole shebang, if I can and my wife permits me!

But first-fold in any habitat priorities obviously would be the spiders' well-being!

As it is, I'm a little freaked out that my original one spider somehow hatched new little ones, completely out of the blue! Indeed, Basin79, who I believe also hangs out here, questioned whether it was actually *mites* that I was seeing, not spiders. Because one would expect more than two or three babies, if indeed the jumper had been pregnant all along . . . and where is its egg sac, nest, or whatever else it's supposed to have? All that stuff not being there threw me for a real loop, after I spied the tiny ones. Not that I'm complaining!

Okay, I trolled Amazon and haven't really found anything that fits all the bills. so maybe I'll mosey on over to my local florist and see what they might have in the way of containers. They might even be amenable to decking one out to my specs, as they did to my Macintosh Plus-shell-cum-aquarium thing a decade or two back.

Come Monday I'll be getting my wingless fruitflies and the scene is likely to really get wild!

Naturally I'll keep you all posted! --Nick

That's cool you got it on the first try. Sounds like you've got a knack for it .

I do use glass enclosures sometimes (like for Steatoda grossa) but I tend not to as much anymore. The reasons I don't usually is they are more difficult to get enough ventilation through, the water droplets don't bead up, and some spiders can't climb it. If those aren't a problem for you and your spider, glass works fine. If they are a problem, I have found clear plastic to work well.

What did the babies look like? Did you see them jumping like your adult jumper? If you post some pics of the mom and potential babies, we might be able to help answer for you.

Naturally I'll keep you all posted!

Sounds awesome !

 

[kamakiri]

The babies look like identical but miniature versions of the mom, who is, as far as I can see (the light is never stellar) khaki to earth tone brown, with white markings—not quite stripes, but linear dots—on her back. She's about the size of this O—a little bigger—with legs. So maybe :Ö; Yeah! That's almost exactly her size. Her babies—now there just seems to be one—is extremely dark; almost black, but that could be just because it's so tiny.

Now, at 8:15 pm, I can't see any spiders at all. She seems to disappear in the potting soil from time to time sometimes for days at a time. After she caught the fly yesterday she disappeared and I have not seen her since. Now even the babies have disappeared . . .

It hadn't occurred to me about the glass and them not being able to climb on it—the mother seems to be too heavy to climb up the sides of this plastic container but sometimes she climbs the twig and then uses a silk thread to descend—the little ones were using that mode of locomotion up till yesterday but like I said, I haven't seen much of any of them all day today . . . which sets me to worrying!

But as soon as I get a chance I'll try to get some photos. I have a 60mm lens on my Canon which acts a bit like a microscope so I'll see if I can't get something with that!

Thanks for the advice and help. I thank you and they thank you! =+)

 

[Joogvanhedel]

I think you have all the answers you need. Tip for feeding the fruit flies. I use a little bucket, of witch i put a little bit of olive oil at the edge from the inside. The flies cant walk over the oil, so you can easy catch them without they go everywhere..

 

[kamakiri]

I'm getting a bit concerned over the spiderlings, who seem to have declined to just one (that I can see).

Should I remove it from the container, if so, how, and where to put it? Like I've said before, it's very, very small—about the size of this asterisk * —so anything I do needs to be very, very careful.

I've thought about the straw technique, but the possibilities of losing it inside the straw are large. I've thought of just letting it crawl onto a piece of paper, but that seems fraught with the possibilities of dropping it etc.

And if I do remove it to another container, how should I feed it/maintain survivable living conditions? How do they grow in the wild? Unfortunately I won't be able to gather pollen grains any time soon . . .

Andy advice greatly appreciated!

 

[WildSpider]

If you have a small container (like a deli cup) for it, you could transfer it to that. That should help it be easier to keep track of it and easier for it to hunt. They don't have to eat everyday so it should hold til you get your fruit flies tomorrow.

I had to transfer a couple slings that were probably about this size the other day (if not smaller) and I'm pretty sure I put the tip of my finger near it and then used the tip of a piece of hay to very gently touch its legs on the other side so that it would walk up onto my finger. Then I very carefully got it to go into its new enclosure using the same method (although, I'm guessing instead of the hay, I probably used the tip of my finger on my other hand just touching the legs barely again). This is how I get my spiders to move a lot of times. If you need help keeping your hand steady so you don't injure it, you can steady you hand by leaning against something else (e.g. the jar or your hand).

Edit:
I just remembered that actually this technique of moving them doesn't actually work that great with jumpers. They actually turn toward the straw touching their feet. It can work but it might take more time to get them where you want them to go. They are a difficult spider to "herd".

Knowing this, I might try another method like just putting your fingers all around it so that the only thing to do is to jump up onto your hand.

 

[WildSpider]

I'm getting a bit concerned over the spiderlings, who seem to have declined to just one (that I can see).

Should I remove it from the container, if so, how, and where to put it? Like I've said before, it's very, very small—about the size of this asterisk * —so anything I do needs to be very, very careful.

I've thought about the straw technique, but the possibilities of losing it inside the straw are large. I've thought of just letting it crawl onto a piece of paper, but that seems fraught with the possibilities of dropping it etc.

And if I do remove it to another container, how should I feed it/maintain survivable living conditions? How do they grow in the wild? Unfortunately I won't be able to gather pollen grains any time soon . . .

Andy advice greatly appreciated!

I also want to reassure you that spiders in general are pretty easy pets. I have twenty-something true spiders along with a bunch of other pets and spiders are probably the easiest pets I have. IMO, if you have a cat (I love cats too btw), it requires more attentive care than your new little guys. This makes it great when you want to go on vacation or something as healthy spiders should be okay to be left for a few days, whereas with a cat, you might need someone to care for it.

 

[kamakiri]

Heh! An abundance of options! I see what you're saying in all respects, but regrettably, the little 'uns are only spottable when they are out and about, and that means they are on the vertical walls of the container—which means a finger or anything designed to "herd" them will likely just knock them off the "wall," and into the regrettable potting soil that's at the bottom—just so you know, if you ever want a spider of pretty much any size to disappear, just put it onto some potting soil; it's a veritable cloaking device.

Still, I can (and will) tilt the container, with something as yet undetermined below the level of the spiderling to catch it. OR, if it can somehow be persuaded to crawl onto some cardstock, I can quickly just maneuver it into the new container.

Which brings me to containers: I just got back from the dollar store. Your comment about glass has greatly persuaded me that I can't have a glass container if they can't crawl up the walls. I'd hate to doom them to a horizontal life; I know that past a certain size they wouldn't be able to crawl up anything vertical (except maybe rough concrete) so my thought was to get sturdy plastic containers (not the bendy type but the hard type) and then put strategic "roads" of some kind of tape on the inside that they could get traction on.

At this point this is still a temporary enclosure, as I want them to be able to feed and grow and I'm not too concerned with decor.

Alas, this is all very difficult to describe, so what I am going to do is effect the transfer of the spiderlings—there are now two definites and maybe more hiding in the potting soil—to the new container, and then take pics and maybe post them on my blog and put the links up here.

Yikes, I haven't been this nervous since my son was born, seventeen years ago . . .

Hopefully a dispatch of excellent news is to come in a couple of hours!

--Nick

PS this will be a good primer to any newtypes to this remarkable hobby. And yes, I have kitties too, and spiders are definitely lower maintenance! =+)

 

[WildSpider]

Your comment about glass has greatly persuaded me that I can't have a glass container if they can't crawl up the walls. I'd hate to doom them to a horizontal life; I know that past a certain size they wouldn't be able to crawl up anything vertical (except maybe rough concrete) so my thought was to get sturdy plastic containers (not the bendy type but the hard type) and then put strategic "roads" of some kind of tape on the inside that they could get traction on.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that they have this difficult a time climbing. It just depends on the species. From what I've seen, jumpers can climb most surfaces. They might even climb the glass. It just depends on the species of spider. Every summer, I see Phidippus audax climbing way up high on our house.

and then take pics

Pics sound great! Just a note: You can also post the pics directly to this thread by clicking Upload a File .

Good luck!

 

[kamakiri]

Hoorah! I succeeded in transplanting one (1) spider child.

First, I had to go to the dollar store, because sue me if I couldn't find a single appropriate container in this entire house! And I didn't want to just repeat the original spiderhome—that would be unheroic.

So to the dollar store I went . . . and in the entire dollar store I managed to find a couple of hard plastic containers (I avoided glass, even though there were several glass candidates—but WildSpider made me leery of glass because the spiders might have difficulty scaling it, so I settled for a hard plastic container with a screw-type top.

I cut a circle out of the top and stretched a conveniently-sized stocking thingy that my wife just happened to have over it—the only problem now is that it no longer screws onto the container, but I'll just tape it shut for now. I won't even need that once the spiderling gets big enough—fingers crossed!

And instead of potting soil I just cut a circle out of grey cardboard so the container won't be completely barren, and I twist-tied a couple of fake twigs from a flower-store orchid so the spiders have something to climb on (oh, and I put some paper masking tape on part of the inside so they have something to get traction on for climbing and, as we say here in Kweebec, "Viola!"

I managed to persuade Spiderling #1 to move onto the tip of a drinking straw cut into a spade shape at one end and just tapped her into her new home, and she was crawling around like a mountaineer straight up the tape that I put on the inside, threatening to escape (as you see in this video). (It was through my camera's excellent lens that I was able to see her in better detail; she looks exactly like her mummy!)

I posted some pics and the video to my sometime blog but just in case here are the pics of the two containers (not great pics but I'm not a great photographer). And tomorrow or the next day I'm expecting the live wingless fruit flies so hopefully everyone will get a square meal for a change.

 

[WildSpider]

Awesome! Glad you got something up and working . The baby was so cute!

 

[Smokehound714]

aphids are a good portion of a young phidippus' diet, adults will eat them too.

 

[kamakiri]

Thanks, guys for all the moral support! Wow, this is turning into a right saga.

This morning I got up and immediately went to inspect the new container. Try as I might, I couldn't find Asterisq . . . but these little bastards, as I've learned to my chagrin, can hide in the most inaccessible of places. They seem to pop out from nowhere . . . so I think she's under the lid among the stocking mesh. No worries—she'll come out when dinner is served.

But then I went to the original container, and, despairing of ever seeing another spider in there again, I shone my torch—a powerful MagLite number. And imagine my surprise when not one, but TWO little nippers streamed out from the potting soil—up the side of the container! (How those little legs get traction on the surface of a plastic container is beyond me!)

So I hurried into action and snared one of them with my straw/shovel trick. They really don't want to get on strange surfaces!

But I finally snagged him and into the new home he went, followed by his brother. That comes to three the number that *should* be in the new container.

But then imagine my surprise, upon shining the flashlight into the old container once more, when yet another little nipper emerged! The little rascals, hiding in plain sight all this time!

So I snagged him as well, which makes the new colony up to four members!

But they are SO TINY I can barely see them with my rheumy old eyes—they're like walking apostrophes.

And again, they managed to disappear into the canopy . . . and I mean DISAPPEAR. I can't find them anywhere!

Question: do spiders inherently like "up"? do they tend to cluster in the uppermost reaches of an enclosure? Or do they just seek the closest shelter? I would imagine the latter . . .

But how long are they going to remain this small, and will they seriously be able to tackle fruit flies, who are twice there size?

There are no aphids, regrettably, in my insular Montreal world. Can I feed them honey? No, they would probably get trapped . . .

Anyway, it's not until tomorrow that the flies arrive. Until then, I will be living on a razor's edge . . .

 

[kamakiri]

And Kai to the rescue . . . my 4 year old Norwegian Forest cat just knocked the old container off the table and on to the floor (a 4-foot drop). (He likes seeing what happens to things on a desk/table etc when it encounters gravity).

The potting soil ended up getting tossed around but it did expose Mother Spider, who was resting within . . . she was buzzing mad at being disturbed but seems none the worse for wear. However, no other spiderlings have appeared. It's lucky I transferred the spiderlings when I did, or they would have been shaken to pieces by that monstrous Cat-astrophe!

 

[WildSpider]

how long are they going to remain this small, and will they seriously be able to tackle fruit flies, who are twice there size?

Jumpers are very strong spiders. You'd be amazed at some of the stuff they can take down. Knowing this, I'm guessing that they'll be alright. How long they stay this small depends on a few factors. One of these factors is how often they eat. If you try to feed them pretty often, it should be faster.

If you see these guys suddenly eating a little less and/or building a small web retreat to hide in, you should leave them be until they come out again (that could be a while). This could indicate that they are in premolt (which means they are going to molt). It's best to try and remove food every 24 hours or so too (especially during this time) as many of the feeders can try to munch on molting spiders. When the spider is in premolt, it is vulnerable and will probably be seeking some peace and quiet. After they molt, they will have put on some more size hopefully .

And Kai to the rescue . . . my 4 year old Norwegian Forest cat just knocked the old container off the table and on to the floor (a 4-foot drop). (He likes seeing what happens to things on a desk/table etc when it encounters gravity).

The potting soil ended up getting tossed around but it did expose Mother Spider, who was resting within . . . she was buzzing mad at being disturbed but seems none the worse for wear. However, no other spiderlings have appeared. It's lucky I transferred the spiderlings when I did, or they would have been shaken to pieces by that monstrous Cat-astrophe!

That's one thing I like about small spiders. They tend to be more durable than Ts .

 

[BenLeeKing]

This is how I keep my jumping spider slings~
Many jumpers prefer to live on top of containers, so inverting the container might be a better way to keep them especially if you have a lot of slings, so they don't start spilling out in all direction every time you open the lid. Due to this I don't use substrate, and I also feed mine flightless fruit flies.
I'm not sure about maternal care in jumping spider, I know some will protect their young before this disperse. I think once dispersed it's a free for all. Not sure about the species you own, but the sling I have can be group housed for the first few instars!