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Isn't it impossible to tame a Tarantula?

Discussion in 'Tarantula Chat' started by MexicanRedKnee, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  2. splangy

    splangy Arachnosquire

    Wait. You said that tarantulas learn by genetic inheritance, and that stimuli the mother is exposed to can be passed to the young. Are you saying, then, that responses to stimuli alter the genetics of the mother? I am confused.

    And isn't that sort of kind of what I said above? That "training" would happen over several generations through human interference? Or am I totally missing the point?
     
  3. jebbewocky

    jebbewocky Arachnoangel

    Um. I'm gonna have to call baloney on that one. Lamarck and all.
     
  4. Yes, Splangy, you got it right. The 'training' would happen over generations. I think perhaps by genetic inheritance, they mean that the information gathered is then passed on through their genes. Basically, an alteration of the information passed down to their young.
     
  5. splangy

    splangy Arachnosquire

    Perhaps I'm reading the wrong location. The only thing I saw was discussing how the spider became accustomed to a tuning fork, but then promptly forgot the lesson they had learned by the next day? Going to paste it here in case anyone else would like to read.

    <<EDIT my apologies... I didn't read who had posted what and thought Dray had posted the link about the educatability of spiders. That's why I was confused. Anyway, it's there in case anyone is interested about reading. :)>>
     
  6. Yes, the spider did forget it's lesson, but later on after showed no signs of reacting to the tuning fork (Basically it learned to ignore it). However, in science, a single test is not solidified evidence. Numerous tests must be conducted before coming to a proper conclusion. For that test to be taken as fact, it must be run hundreds or times with the same species.. and then it must be run hundreds of times with diferent species. The results must be thoroughly doccumented every step of the way. Only then will the end results (when compared) will be accepted as fact. And ONLY for those species tested.
     
  7. Totally Agreed!
    Which would have to be done before testing your theory of genetic alteration thru learning.:)
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  8. Thanks Xian....it was a pretty informative article, but I especially liked the part where it said:

    "This single experiment has been here described in some detail largely for the purpose of impressing the reader with the importance of reducing the problem
    to its simplest terms before any inferences are drawn, and it may well act as a model for any which he may be inclined to undertake on his own account. The more complicated the action, the more likely is the experimenter to read into it motives and mental operations which exist only in his own imagination, and with this warning we must take leave of a subject which might tempt us to encroach too much on an allotted space."


    Again, it is not the tarantula's responsibility to adapt to us, but ours to adapt to them. If they do reciprocate that adaptation (to whatever speculative level), then it is a privledge and not a consistant set of behaviors to expect from your tarantula. Nor is this privledge to be taken for granted either, lest they suddenly decide to not be so "co-operative," as it were.

    As far as captive-breeding genetics goes........this is not a subject with much study behind it, and attributions to behaviors through generations via captive-breeding would only be speculative at best. Even if this phenomena were to be substantiated by hard empirical evidence, you would still only be training by proxy, and thus not (in fact) "Training" an individual tarantula.
     
  9. splangy

    splangy Arachnosquire

    No you're right. "training" would be the wrong word for the effects of selective breeding. "taming" would be a better word, and i don't think it really would even count for the sake of this thread. I was throwing that in there to re-emphasize the capacity a tarantula has for "getting used to us."

    although, I must say.... if i had the money and the resources (and the ability to kill all of the ferocious Ts), selective breeding to see if you could actually alter the demeanor of a particular breed would be uber interesting! :):)


    ability to kill meaning.... i would feel guilty and cry myself to sleep every night.
     
  10. Thanks, I posted it merely to show an experiment that had been done in the past. I'm in no way taking sides either way on this debate.:)
     
  11. Not really.......Some of us happen to like our meanies. I'd have to say, my "ferocious" ones (Desirae, the psycho P. cambridgei and my S. cal Lilith) are my favorite girls!!!! I love my Avics, Grammys and B. smithi to no end.......but their tanks are nowhere near as fun to stick your hand in!!!! :p
     
  12. You could also breed out the docile ones and work on the more 'mean' ones. lol
     
  13. splangy

    splangy Arachnosquire

    Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun to see if it actually worked??? Think of what we could learn about them! Obviously, the aggressive ones could still exist. I'm simply suggesting developing a different breed. (just like dogs are all the same species but different breeds have different temperaments... it would be the same with the Ts)
     
  14. Nerri1029

    Nerri1029 Chief Cook n Bottlewasher Old Timer

    Fred Punzo (Spiders: Biology, Ecology, Natural History and Behavior)

    Talked about spiders "learning" which direction ( e.g. left or right ) yielded food more often.
    If a food item was always placed to the left of the burrow, they would go left far more often. Hence learning.

    This stimuli would need to be repeated constantly however.

    My memory recalls a time frame of 9 days with out said stimuli and the spider would pick left and right without bias.


    So what his research suggests is that spiders have a limited capacity to "learn"

    *************************************************

    As for ANYTHING that was learned getting passed down through genetics..
    show me ONE just ONE paper that suggests this. PLEASE.... :rolleyes:
     
  15. When Desirae is ready, I'll be looking for the meanest male possible for her!!! :D
     
  16. Falk

    Falk Arachnodemon

    Tarantulas dont have the social mechanics that can make them tame.
    Those words comes from a arachnid biologist.
     
  17. Falk

    Falk Arachnodemon

    So you mean if you are handeling a tarantula and it never bites its tame or used to you:clap:
     
  18. kripp_keeper

    kripp_keeper Arachnoknight

    Once again that depends on how you are defining the word tame.

    2. without the savageness or fear of humans normal in wild animals; gentle, fearless, or without shyness, as if domesticated: That lion acts as tame as a house cat.

    It may not bite you, but could still be scared or "shy"/nervous. Give it a squeeze, and see what it does.


    4. lacking in excitement; dull; insipid: a very tame party.


    By this definition my girl is tame. She sits in her hole all day....but.....then she sits in the other side of her hole(hole not burrow). She doesn't really do anything else unless someone walks over by her.
     
  19. splangy

    splangy Arachnosquire

    That's assuming that a T in the wild would behave differently. I've seen people handle Ts in the wild. They tend to act the same as "domesticated" Ts. Not that I can say this is the case conclusively, I haven't done studies. But I doubt the T behaves THAT differently in the wild than it does in our cages.... idk.
     
  20. So where is your study showing genetically based learning occurs "tested hundreds of times with different species"? I would definitely enjoy reading such a detailed experiment, and would like to personally congratulate the authors on their findings, as this would be a major breakthrough in the study of Theraphosidae. I am not an entomologist, but my occupation involves manipulating human behavior. All behavior related reading I've come across applying to entomology has been based on observations of fixed action patterns in response to various stimuli. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken. I personally do not believe that a tarantula is capable of being tamed, but they may indeed become habituated to specific stimuli within controlled environments.
     
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