Is this the enigmatic Ephebopus fossor?

[LV-426]

I picked this up at big reptile import/distributor in the south Florida. It was marked as "skeleton tarantula', along with some E. murinus also. I have had an interest in the genus Ephebopus, and info on E. fossor is scarce. Is this E. fossor

 

[Zoltan]

Looks like a beat-up E. murinus to me. There's also no way to positively identify E. fossor even at the generic level (type specimen lost and description too vague).

 

[paassatt]

It looks exactly like my E. murinus. Right down to the areas of missing hair on the carapace. It was a rescue (I'm not in that business anymore) from a LPS and I was also thinking that it looks that way due to being a little beat up.

While I'm on the topic, are the black areas where hair on the carapace is missing an indication of an imminent molt, i.e. the blackening of an abdomen of a species with urticating hairs on their abdomens?

 

[Sebastian S.]

Looks like a beat-up E. murinus to me. There's also no way to positively identify E. fossor even at the generic level (type specimen lost and description too vague).

True.

Ephebopus fossor is considered a nomen dubium,
We Can't do nothing about it at the moment ; )

Bibliography :

West, R. C., Marshall, S.D., Fukushima, C.S. & R. Bertani. 2008.
Review and cladistic analysis of the Neotropical tarantula genus Ephebopus Simon 1892 (Araneae: Theraphosidae) with notes on the Aviculariinae.
Zootaxa 1849: 35-58 [p. 39, fig. 21-22].

 

[LV-426]

they had some odd looking "skeleton tarantulas at the place i got them from. Im gonna pick up a larger indivdual later this week if still available, post a pic and see if anyone can ID this species. So what is this T if its not an E. fossor?

 

[Sebastian S.]

I think this is E murinus.

Wait for molt, and you will see all striping on place ; )

This is my opinion.


Cheers ,

Sebastian_S

 

[LV-426]

we will see when it molts, regardless I am going back to the place and pic up a larger specimen of the different looking skeletons. if it not a E. murinus then i might try my luck at breeding this enigma species

 

[sjl197]

If you are going to breed, then wait until after they moult, then they will be fresh and ready to accept the male.

Then, i also fully believe you will see the prominent leg striping like in other
fresh specimens of E.murinus. Cant see anything on the spider in the pic to suggest it isnt just a beat up E.murinus. There are regional variations in colour markings though, the species has a huge range.

Unless you know it comes from Ecuador, then there is not yet any obvious reason to yet think it is 'E.fossor', rather than any of the known species from brasil and guyanas.

 

[LV-426]

i took a closer look at it and it appears that 3 of the back legs are replacements for one that have been lost recently, just my guess. it may be an E. murinus, but they do have odd looking Ephebopus at the place i got it from

 

[cacoseraph]

coloration and markings can vary across a species' range. bigger ranges = bigger possibility of variation


they are not generally not diagnostic of species

 

[Zoltan]

Reading Pocock's original description, it is indeed a bit vague, and most of what he points out as differences between the two species can be attributed to intraspecific variation (haven't looked into the spination of legs though). "Thicker longitudinal bands and scarcely developed transverse bands" - there can be basically no bands at all yet it's still the same species: http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/index.php/Tarantulas/birdspiders_0754

 

[cacoseraph]

imo spination is not great. it can be reasonably variable to begin with and much more so on regenerated limbs


if that is the only different feature and there is not a ton of specimens studied it is sketchy to me

 

[LV-426]

well i did find this

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=32639&highlight=ephebopus+fossor

and this:

http://home.online.no/~janor/e_fossor.jpg


I am starting to believe this is a E. murinus, im goin to check out where i got it, i did see some that did look like the pic in the link. i just gotta get a better look

 

[paassatt]

My apologies if I'm dumbing down the thread, but can anyone answer the question I posed earlier regarding the areas of missing hair on the carapace? I noticed the picture the OP linked to has the same black areas on the carapace as both of our specimens. Does that darken as a molt becomes imminent like the abdomen of a NW with a bald patch, or is it always a jet black color?

 

[LV-426]

My apologies if I'm dumbing down the thread, but can anyone answer the question I posed earlier regarding the areas of missing hair on the carapace? I noticed the picture the OP linked to has the same black areas on the carapace as both of our specimens. Does that darken as a molt becomes imminent like the abdomen of a NW with a bald patch, or is it always a jet black color?

well mine came from an reptile importer so it looks like its been through hell, i think its black naturally and nothing to do with molting. paassatt do you have a pic of your E, murinus

 

[paassatt]

well mine came from an reptile importer so it looks like its been through hell, i think its black naturally and nothing to do with molting. paassatt do you have a pic of your E, murinus

Here's one I took the day I got it. Mine came from a LPS, so I'm sure it went through it's own rough stretch for a while. You'll notice how terribly small the abdomen is relative to the carapace. Once I fattened it up over the first few days it took to the burrrow I had started and now I only see toes and the occasional late-night grooming session out in the open.

 

[LV-426]

yours looks great compared mine, poor thing looks like its been to Hell and back. it eats fine so im not worried. I got 4 more from the same source at $18 a pop, its is the 3rd largest of the bunch. The biggest is very impressive

 

[paassatt]

yours looks great compared mine, poor thing looks like its been to Hell and back. it eats fine so im not worried. I got 4 more from the same source at $18 a pop, its is the 3rd largest of the bunch. The biggest is very impressive

Oh for sure, I love this species. Mine too ate very well and heartily for about 3 weeks after I got it, but for the past few weeks a lot of food ignoring is going on, so I'm hoping for a molt soon; hence my question about the black areas on the carapace. One of the saving graces of having a beat up specimen is if you give it the proper care it deserves, it molts into a very healthy, beautiful individual and it gets a clean slate.