Is my tarantula a curly hair nicaragua or hondura?

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Photo #1

Photo #2

Photo #3
So let's take a look of the different color/markings on the carapace variants of the wild caught Brachypelma albopilosum "Nicaragua".

Specimen photo #1 is 99% percent black with no markings, which is the same example of Rick West website "Dark Form" Brachypelma albopilosum from Honduras http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/...ma-albopilosum-female-San-Pedro-Sula-Honduras obviously the difference in between the two is the lack of bristles on the legs between the Nicaraguan and the Honduran.

Specimen photo number #2 with much lighter brighter color and very significant markings on the carapace that is visually seen.

Specimen photo number #3 with a little bit of markings on the carapace.

Regardless of the markings darker for or lighter form each specimen has the nice bristles all over the the body compare to the Honduran specimen photo on Rick West website.

 

[viper69]

The recent imports I've seen from @Exoskeleton Invertebrates all seem to be fairly dark with lighter colored setae, and significantly more curled setae.

But in that single picture from Rick West, that wild specimen looks more like what people call "hobby form" than Exo's pics in this thread.

Which leads me to wonder just what do people have in their collection. I have a AF that looks like the pic from Rick West more so than Jose's pics above in terms of setae.

I'm not convinced that everyone who owns a so-called hobby form owns a hybrid etc, no one can prove that unless DNA analysis was done, to me at least.

I think as usual, like with many Avics, the source is not often known in the exotic animal trade.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Photo courtesy of Stuart Longhorn
Two wild caught mature males Brachypelma albopilosum "Nicaragua" and Brachypelma albopilosum "Honduras". That is correct both wild caught specimens, the Honduran specimen I have permission from Stuart Longhorn to post his photo.

 

[Belegnole]

Both beautiful and they obviously look different. But, is there any proof that they are anything other than local variants?

 

[viper69]

Both beautiful and they obviously look different. But, is there any proof that they are anything other than local variants?

DNA is rarely used in tarantula taxonomy compared to cladistics, I haven't seen DNA for this species used yet in classification.

 

[sjl197]

^ This is why I legally collected my own animals directly in Honduras for study (like the male in my photo above) and my close collaborator Ray Gabriel legally collected some Nicaraguan ones.

The first Nicaraguan ones imported to USA/Europe to the best of my knowledge were in Aug/Sept 2015. Thanks to the Spidershop (UK) i was invited to the grand opening of the first shipment crate of 'Nicaragua' into UK/Europe in Aug/Sept 2015, and we went through every single individual in there! As far as i know, a few months later i had the first successful eggsac in Europe, which i left with the mother and discovered hatched on the 26.March 2016. Only adults (both mature males and female) and subadults came into UK then, and as far as i know it was same sort of dates for USA. There were lots of other eggsacs hatched soon after mine, and perhaps a couple earlier, i'd like to hear if there were. If you know of any exports before, i'd like to hear.

So what about this animal at the start?
Quite honestly, i really wish people would stop guessing and rebranding. Either you know your animal comes direct from recent Nicaraguan imports or you don't.

I've seen a worrying number of animals bought through awful store-chains like 'Petco' and such. If after late 2015, then chances are good it's Nicaraguan, but if you can't trace it to a particular Nicaraguan import - which i imagine are vast majority bought through store-chains, then here's my simple message - DONT call it Nicaraguan! I'm filled with dread and despair at some such guesses i've seen going around.... Guess being the key word to take note of. And do you think the kid in the store-chain knows where it comes from - i really doubt it.

and please don't call the longterm hobby ones 'Honduran'. What it looks like at the moment is that in early 80s or so, some animals were coming out of Costa Rica. Then a Honduran exporter took over business and flooded his stock in the hobby, And what next? Well, i expect people just guessed, assumed and bred whatever with whatever. Sound familiar?

and please stop already with the 'colour form' thing. Ok, so i've seen at least somewhere in the region of 5000+ adults, from Costa Rica, Nicaragua, and Honduras, both in wild and captivity. Here's the thing. Like different individuals of anything, there's differences between individuals, and particularly for the honduran or hobby ones, they're hugely variable - especially in carapace, but also fluffiness and whatever other general quality might be thought of next.

Well, all that being said, I see nothing about the original animal (that started the thread) to indicate it's one of the recent Nicaraguan imports. But more importantly, concentrate please on whether its origins can be securely traced back to any known Nicaraguan import. If not, take the safer route and continue with it being treated as hobby stock, which i expect will get mixed and interbred anyway in next years (between older hobby-stock and some of the new imports).

So,
If you KNOW your animal comes from Nicaraguan imports, then let's keep at least JUST those securely sourced ones pure - like the great ones shown in later replies above.
If you have to ask on a forum/facebook etc what 'form' it is, then you don't know, and pretty much always neither will anyone else!

Peace out.

 

[Belegnole]

^ This is why I legally collected my own animals directly in Honduras for study (like the male in my photo above) and my close collaborator Ray Gabriel legally collected some Nicaraguan ones.

Peace out.

Thank you for your insight.

 

[KevinsWither]

I think personally its more of a hobby form. Checked with the person who sold me this and he said its likely a hobby form.

 

[penngomifan]

Seems like there is no quote on quote hobby form. Its more of a variant on locality. How many times have people bred the Nicaragua variant with the Honduras variant??? Well at least thats my opinion.

 

[dogpack]

This is wonderful. I'm very glad to have this knowledge. Doing things right is exactly what I want to do for the sake of the animals and for the hobby. For me, this is serious business. Knowledge is power and the key to keeping things pure. Definitely, I do not want to muddle things especially when purity is trumped by greed and misinformation. I really, really cherish and appreciate this information, many, many thanks.

 

[dogpack]

I am learning. Depending on the light source photos may vary in coloration and details, so how for sure can anyone be certain about the differences?