Insecticide in the same room as tarantulas

[Ann223]

Hi, to explain the situation.. I'm renovating my room and I put all my terrariums with my 9 tarantulas to the living room. Approx. a hour ago we got a lot of ants coming in and my mum panicked and sprayed living room with insecticide (0,1g of cypermethrin and 0,1g imiprothrin in 100g of the spray). She didn't directly spray it on the terrariums, but approximately 1-2 m away from it and moved the terrariums immediately when she realized they're there. I was in my room and didn't know about the situation. I changed and washed all the water dishes, but I realize I would have to clean all the enclosures and change the soil (which I don't currently have here) in order to prevent further exposure to insecticide in case it got into the enclosure. For now all the tarantulas seem ok, they don't act strange, but I'm really worried. I would be really glad if you had any input to this situation. Or how would you solve it? Is there anything I can do for them now?

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

@HooahArmy

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Hi, to explain the situation.. I'm renovating my room and I put all my terrariums with my 9 tarantulas to the living room. Approx. a hour ago we got a lot of ants coming in and my mum panicked and sprayed living room with insecticide (0,1g of cypermethrin and 0,1g imiprothrin in 100g of the spray). She didn't directly spray it on the terrariums, but approximately 1-2 m away from it and moved the terrariums immediately when she realized they're there. I was in my room and didn't know about the situation. I changed and washed all the water dishes, but I realize I would have to clean all the enclosures and change the soil (which I don't currently have here) in order to prevent further exposure to insecticide in case it got into the enclosure. For now all the tarantulas seem ok, they don't act strange, but I'm really worried. I would be really glad if you had any input to this situation. Or how would you solve it? Is there anything I can do for them now?

Not much you can do beside keeping them far way from the ant killer and hoping the fan was off and none was lifted into the air . Hopefully your spiders are fine! Fingers crossed ..

 

[The Snark]

Raid <TM>, Cypermethrin and imiprothrin, synthetic pyrethroids, both fumigant and contact neurotoxins that specifically targets insects. Here's hoping inherent spider resistance wins the day.

@HooahArmy Two questions, 1. what's the half life of that stuff and 2. How did the human race survive this long?

PS Both these chemicals are especially deadly to fish.

 

[HooahArmy]

I have been summoned! (Sorry, I was at work)
Alright ladies and gents, let's get to this issue and see what's going on.

Let's talk about our components first...
Cypermethrin: This doozy is a synthetic insecticide that doesn't take much to kill, yet targets small-bodied insects like ants and roaches. It's half-life is about a week or two, and most governments highly regulate this stuff to ensure the concentration is only enough for the targeted pest. At the OP's 0.1g content, it's just about enough to kill roaches and definitely tiny ants. A big invert however is more of trouble to kill due to size and exoskeleton thickness. Should a large invert be basting in the stuff for some time, there might be some neurological or health effects, but a kill is not too likely due to the listed exposure time and the low dose.
Imiprothrin: This pesticide works through the nervous system and causes paralysis for small insects, preventing them from scurrying away while the cypermethrin does its work. At 0.1g, it's a relatively low does; fatal for ants and maybe small roaches, but potentially too low for a large invert. Should a large invert be basting in the stuff, symptoms would include jerky movements, stiffness, lethargy, or trouble moving. This compound is not entirely a 'poison' but acts as a secondary toxin in some insecticides to 'hold a critter in place' while the main toxin does its damage. This stuff has a half life of about a month or so, even less in well-lit areas.

Now let's talk about exposure...
Ants and roach poisons work on contact, meaning that the critters themselves need to have bodily touching with the toxins in question to be exposed. Ants and roaches are very sensitive to contact-toxins due to their size and readily take up air and some moisture though the spiracles on their bodies; those are akin to little 'nostrils' through which the insect respires. Tarantulas only breathe very localized air through book lungs. Because of the toxicity of Cypermethrin and Imiprothrin and their intended use in human living spaces, they are not likely going to be very volatile (go airborne) and will stay localized to where they were sprayed to maximize pest body contact. Inverts breathing safe 'bubbles' of clean air in terrariums are likely to have little to no exposure, unless the pesticide made direct contact with the inside of the terrarium. The noted distance of 1-2 meters reduces exposure even greater

What to do...
Moving the terrariums to prevent additional exposure to the toxins in the area is a great idea. Nice work!
Changing the water dishes is also prime. Yes!
Wiping the inside and outside of the terrariums with an invert-safe spray would also do well to aid in this situation, just in case. I wouldn't see a need to change the substrate due to the distance of the spray and the low potential of the toxins traveling so far, yet if the OP feels like it, they can.
The most important thing to do would be to monitor the terrariums and critters within as closely as possible for about 2 weeks. Take note if the animals are exhibiting signs of poisoning such as odd movements or behaviors or lethargy. If they are, move them to an isolation/quarantine tank of clean substrate and decor to offer them time to weather it out. There is no other way to detox an invert than to let their bodily organs do their job. However, if the critters are looking fine, congratulations! They can be moved back into their original location within about a month (safe estimate) or lesser time if a through cleaning of the location is done.

Feel free to ask more questions!

Bonus for @The Snark
How did humans survive so long? I vote for questionably specific warning labels on everything. Examples from my workplace:
- On a box of grenade fuses: "Do not ingest"
- On a package of peanuts: "ALLERGY WARNING Contains Peanuts"
- On a bottle of children's pain medication: "Do not operate heavy machinery when using"

 

[The Spider House]

I have been summoned! (Sorry, I was at work)
Alright ladies and gents, let's get to this issue and see what's going on.

Let's talk about our components first...
Cypermethrin: This doozy is a synthetic insecticide that doesn't take much to kill, yet targets small-bodied insects like ants and roaches. It's half-life is about a week or two, and most governments highly regulate this stuff to ensure the concentration is only enough for the targeted pest. At the OP's 0.1g content, it's just about enough to kill roaches and definitely tiny ants. A big invert however is more of trouble to kill due to size and exoskeleton thickness. Should a large invert be basting in the stuff for some time, there might be some neurological or health effects, but a kill is not too likely due to the listed exposure time and the low dose.
Imiprothrin: This pesticide works through the nervous system and causes paralysis for small insects, preventing them from scurrying away while the cypermethrin does its work. At 0.1g, it's a relatively low does; fatal for ants and maybe small roaches, but potentially too low for a large invert. Should a large invert be basting in the stuff, symptoms would include jerky movements, stiffness, lethargy, or trouble moving. This compound is not entirely a 'poison' but acts as a secondary toxin in some insecticides to 'hold a critter in place' while the main toxin does its damage. This stuff has a half life of about a month or so, even less in well-lit areas.

Now let's talk about exposure...
Ants and roach poisons work on contact, meaning that the critters themselves need to have bodily touching with the toxins in question to be exposed. Ants and roaches are very sensitive to contact-toxins due to their size and readily take up air and some moisture though the spiracles on their bodies; those are akin to little 'nostrils' through which the insect respires. Tarantulas only breathe very localized air through book lungs. Because of the toxicity of Cypermethrin and Imiprothrin and their intended use in human living spaces, they are not likely going to be very volatile (go airborne) and will stay localized to where they were sprayed to maximize pest body contact. Inverts breathing safe 'bubbles' of clean air in terrariums are likely to have little to no exposure, unless the pesticide made direct contact with the inside of the terrarium. The noted distance of 1-2 meters reduces exposure even greater

What to do...
Moving the terrariums to prevent additional exposure to the toxins in the area is a great idea. Nice work!
Changing the water dishes is also prime. Yes!
Wiping the inside and outside of the terrariums with an invert-safe spray would also do well to aid in this situation, just in case. I wouldn't see a need to change the substrate due to the distance of the spray and the low potential of the toxins traveling so far, yet if the OP feels like it, they can.
The most important thing to do would be to monitor the terrariums and critters within as closely as possible for about 2 weeks. Take note if the animals are exhibiting signs of poisoning such as odd movements or behaviors or lethargy. If they are, move them to an isolation/quarantine tank of clean substrate and decor to offer them time to weather it out. There is no other way to detox an invert than to let their bodily organs do their job. However, if the critters are looking fine, congratulations! They can be moved back into their original location within about a month (safe estimate) or lesser time if a through cleaning of the location is done.

Feel free to ask more questions!

Bonus for @The Snark
How did humans survive so long? I vote for questionably specific warning labels on everything. Examples from my workplace:
- On a box of grenade fuses: "Do not ingest"
- On a package of peanuts: "ALLERGY WARNING Contains Peanuts"
- On a bottle of children's pain medication: "Do not operate heavy machinery when using"

Excellent summary and puts my mind at rest when I have been laying ant powder OUTSIDE my house and closing all windows and doors to avoid any spread.

Love some of those warnings. Ha ha

Reminds me of when you see cereal in a bowl with milk on the cereal box and says "serving suggestion" - really? Wow, I would never have worked that one out for myself.

 

[Ann223]

Thanks everyone for the answers!

@HooahArmy Thank you so much for putting it into context. I forgot to mention size of my tarantulas as most of them are not even sub-adults yet. I was especially worried about 3 slings I got lately, but their enclosures were a bit further away. Some of the facts put my mind a bit at ease, so hopefully none of them got hurt by it. I'll keep monitoring them. Thank you!

 

[The Snark]

@HooahArmy So the Raid sales pitch that is gets in cracks where pests hide was mostly blowing hot air? Is two weeks common h/l for most chlorpyrifros or is it concentration dependent?

 

[HooahArmy]

@HooahArmy So the Raid sales pitch that is gets in cracks where pests hide was mostly blowing hot air? Is two weeks common h/l for most chlorpyrifros or is it concentration dependent?

Raid is a special beast of its own. It has a formulation that both becomes locally airborne to deposit particles in cracks, and is relatively liquid when set down, allowing it to flow into high insect-traffic areas.
As for half-life, this is dependent on the binder/base that comes with chlorpyrifos, and the Ph and temperature of the location where it is used. The average half-life is about 2-3 weeks in ideal conditions, Ph of 8 or higher. However in a location with lower Ph, the half-life goes down. The same is for a hot location; cold locations make the stuff endure. Concentration will not affect half-life, since half-life refers to the rate at which a compound degrades or breaks down. For example, the half-life of a moth ball will be the same amount of time, regardless of whether you have 1 or 10 moth balls in the area. Each molecule within the mothball is independent and will break down to a gas independent of others around them.
Cool, eh!?

 

[The Snark]

Raid is a special beast of its own. It has a formulation that both becomes locally airborne to deposit particles in cracks, and is relatively liquid when set down, allowing it to flow into high insect-traffic areas.

The average half-life is about 2-3 weeks in ideal conditions, Ph of 8 or higher.

Apologies for being half awake when I wrote that query.
The major problem as I see it is pesticides - one label that blanket covers every chemical that kills anything from my herbicide with the active ingredient of calcium carbonate with a powerful surfactant that attacks pH sensitive plant foliage on out to cyanide and mercury compounds - the registry only takes into account the actual active ingredient and that ingredient may be a Me Too several iterations deep in some other chemical company's registration. The adjunct chemicals and compounds aren't taken into account As in one chemical with a half life of a few days yet with certain adjuncts will kill fish for months. The chemical company simply adds the precaution Not For Use Near Waterways or where it may enter streams or rivers. A typical example being glyphosate has that exact precaution yet is often sprayed by helicopter. Right, selective pin point applicator there.

The other major stupid is every pesticide chemical in the registry has, expressed or implied, only tested as formulated for a specific product and all bets are off if combined with any other chemical that can have pesticide properties. That narrows down the field from carbon compounds to stray comets.

But I got off the subject query. The Shell No Pest Strip disaster/debacle. Saturated the market, one commercial showing a woman hanging one over a baby's crib, then they vanished from the market, the formulation altered, and much lower key lower toxicity (or prevasive) version was reintroduced with a load of precautions attached as caveats.
So what the H was really going on behind the scenes with that Dimethyl Dichloro Vinyl Phosphate DDVP compound and the latent effects that, apparently, poisoned most of the population of the US? Seems like they shoveled it all under the rug - nothing to see here - and the regulators all staring into the sky as they ask DDV what?

 

[HooahArmy]

Apologies for being half awake when I wrote that query.
The major problem as I see it is pesticides - one label that blanket covers every chemical that kills anything from my herbicide with the active ingredient of calcium carbonate with a powerful surfactant that attacks pH sensitive plant foliage on out to cyanide and mercury compounds - the registry only takes into account the actual active ingredient and that ingredient may be a Me Too several iterations deep in some other chemical company's registration. The adjunct chemicals and compounds aren't taken into account As in one chemical with a half life of a few days yet with certain adjuncts will kill fish for months. The chemical company simply adds the precaution Not For Use Near Waterways or where it may enter streams or rivers. A typical example being glyphosate has that exact precaution yet is often sprayed by helicopter. Right, selective pin point applicator there.

The other major stupid is every pesticide chemical in the registry has, expressed or implied, only tested as formulated for a specific product and all bets are off if combined with any other chemical that can have pesticide properties. That narrows down the field from carbon compounds to stray comets.

But I got off the subject query. The Shell No Pest Strip disaster/debacle. Saturated the market, one commercial showing a woman hanging one over a baby's crib, then they vanished from the market, the formulation altered, and much lower key lower toxicity (or prevasive) version was reintroduced with a load of precautions attached as caveats.
So what the H was really going on behind the scenes with that Dimethyl Dichloro Vinyl Phosphate DDVP compound and the latent effects that, apparently, poisoned most of the population of the US? Seems like they shoveled it all under the rug - nothing to see here - and the regulators all staring into the sky as they ask DDV what?

There's a lot of work that can go into the pesticide and chemical registry, thus I could join you for pages of rants! As of now, unfortunately, there's not much that little folks like you and I can do about it; we only can wait for the government and environmental bigwigs to wise up and start to figure things out and set things right. Who know how long that will take and after what damage?

To your main inquiry however, DDVP is a monster I've read about in my studies. You're right that back in the days, it was marketed frequently since comprehensive studies had not been done of its toxicity. The old pest strip commercials of the weird ol' days remind me of other ads I've seen in study such as the 'Cigarettes are good for mom and baby' as seen with an old tobacco ad, and the infamous ads detailing pregnant women drinking, stating that booze was a 'fortifier' for the womb. (Loud scoff).
Deficits in knowledge are what yield ads like this and the pest strip ones, and studies have shown that such is not because of deficits in testing technology, but big business cutting corners and taking a rush to get their items on the market. As with most new pest/chem innovations, companies that produce them often will not take deep considerations for toxicity and hide them preferably behind simply warning labels. Publications for toxicity used to be easily doctored with toxicity intensity cleverly hidden behind complex figures and jargon. With DDVP, it was once released as a 'relatively safe' pesticide until folks began to get ill in spite of following instructions and heeding labels. Lawsuits arose, causing new formulations and relabeling, ultimately resulting in the product in its modern form today.
The tale of DDVP is not unlike many other commercial toxins out there. With warning labels, technically anything can still get sold, since the buyer legally assumes his/her own risk in use. DDVP is not less toxic than it was in the old days, except that government crackdowns have restricted some formations. As of today, many formulations of DDVP are illegal in the US and EU, yet it hasn't put a stop to illegal markets that sell the heavier formulas still legal in other nations. Yes, folks did get poisoned, but one can't fully say that DDVP's legacy was swept beneath the rug. The tragedies it induced has changed government regulations of toxins today and DDVP is a case study that many chemists read about for education. Examples such as it have helped paved chemical assessments in the present; they are still however rather out of the news due to more pressing topics taking place. Chemist communities on the contrary know that DDVP's history is not hidden at all and still use its story for study; the stuff just seems under the rug to the general public. As of now, I can say that most formulations of DDVP are indeed out of the market due to the results of government chemical testing revamps, policy changes, and people wising up to the tactics of companies.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

There's a lot of work that can go into the pesticide and chemical registry, thus I could join you for pages of rants! As of now, unfortunately, there's not much that little folks like you and I can do about it; we only can wait for the government and environmental bigwigs to wise up and start to figure things out and set things right. Who know how long that will take and after what damage?

To your main inquiry however, DDVP is a monster I've read about in my studies. You're right that back in the days, it was marketed frequently since comprehensive studies had not been done of its toxicity. The old pest strip commercials of the weird ol' days remind me of other ads I've seen in study such as the 'Cigarettes are good for mom and baby' as seen with an old tobacco ad, and the infamous ads detailing pregnant women drinking, stating that booze was a 'fortifier' for the womb. (Loud scoff).
Deficits in knowledge are what yield ads like this and the pest strip ones, and studies have shown that such is not because of deficits in testing technology, but big business cutting corners and taking a rush to get their items on the market. As with most new pest/chem innovations, companies that produce them often will not take deep considerations for toxicity and hide them preferably behind simply warning labels. Publications for toxicity used to be easily doctored with toxicity intensity cleverly hidden behind complex figures and jargon. With DDVP, it was once released as a 'relatively safe' pesticide until folks began to get ill in spite of following instructions and heeding labels. Lawsuits arose, causing new formulations and relabeling, ultimately resulting in the product in its modern form today.
The tale of DDVP is not unlike many other commercial toxins out there. With warning labels, technically anything can still get sold, since the buyer legally assumes his/her own risk in use. DDVP is not less toxic than it was in the old days, except that government crackdowns have restricted some formations. As of today, many formulations of DDVP are illegal in the US and EU, yet it hasn't put a stop to illegal markets that sell the heavier formulas still legal in other nations. Yes, folks did get poisoned, but one can't fully say that DDVP's legacy was swept beneath the rug. The tragedies it induced has changed government regulations of toxins today and DDVP is a case study that many chemists read about for education. Examples such as it have helped paved chemical assessments in the present; they are still however rather out of the news due to more pressing topics taking place. Chemist communities on the contrary know that DDVP's history is not hidden at all and still use its story for study; the stuff just seems under the rug to the general public. As of now, I can say that most formulations of DDVP are indeed out of the market due to the results of government chemical testing revamps, policy changes, and people wising up to the tactics of companies.

Is DDVP' what’s killing all the bugs outside ? I see like nothing anymore no moths , no spiders , nothing.. unless I go and look under rotting logs I can’t find anything. When I say none I mean , the common species I used to see daily are gone or rare . I see tons of ants though .

 

[The Snark]

@HooahArmy That's succinct and quotable. Sums it all up well. The old profits before all else and red tape can bury almost anything if heaped on thick enough.

Is DDVP' what’s killing all the bugs outside ?

Exactly. The clear answer is yes, no, maybe. More or less, chemists came up with a compound and noticed with the lid off the jar that flies were dying across the room. Being a plastic based fumigant, a phostoxin derivative, it has a virtually unknown half life but guesstimated at anywhere from a month to a year effectiveness depending on formulation and who marketed it.
The administration eyes turned into $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ signs and it got handed over to the advertising and PR department for marketing. The company attorneys on retainer will cover their butts and the politicians in their pockets will smooth over any repercussions that may arise.
And of course, ignore the millions of no pest strips in landfills that may keep on doing their job well into the next millennium.

 

[HooahArmy]

Is DDVP' what’s killing all the bugs outside ? I see like nothing anymore no moths , no spiders , nothing.. unless I go and look under rotting logs I can’t find anything. When I say none I mean , the common species I used to see daily are gone or rare . I see tons of ants though .

Where are all the bugs going?
This has been a question popping up within the last 20 years. According to some research posts I've read, the number of bugs have been declining as a result of:
1. Habitat encroachment. As humans take up more critter habitable land, locations to breed and live grow lesser for insects. Concrete jungles and urban sprawls thus have less insects. The sounds of vehicles and the smells of human pollution also cause insects to move to other places.
2. Introduction of foreign species competition. Invasive species take a large toll on native insect populations, especially those which are small birds, amphibians, and fish. The latter two eat native insect larvae in large amounts.
3. Climate change. Insects are more sensitive to habitat-affecting climate change than larger animals. When the temperature or bio-clime shifts just a bit, they head for the hills resulting in oddball populations like the mega swarms noted in China, India, and certain parts of Canada.
4. Population imbalances. As humans cultivate agriculture, hunt, intrude on native spaces, and farm livestock; local predators, prey, and plant species are impacted. Creatures all across the food chain can be noted to be missing in locations where human impact is the greatest. I personally have been seeing less deer and hawks where I live. The same can go for animals. They simply migrate to somewhere more 'wild' or die out.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Where are all the bugs going?
This has been a question popping up within the last 20 years. According to some research posts I've read, the number of bugs have been declining as a result of:
1. Habitat encroachment. As humans take up more critter habitable land, locations to breed and live grow lesser for insects. Concrete jungles and urban sprawls thus have less insects. The sounds of vehicles and the smells of human pollution also cause insects to move to other places.
2. Introduction of foreign species competition. Invasive species take a large toll on native insect populations, especially those which are small birds, amphibians, and fish. The latter two eat native insect larvae in large amounts.
3. Climate change. Insects are more sensitive to habitat-affecting climate change than larger animals. When the temperature or bio-clime shifts just a bit, they head for the hills resulting in oddball populations like the mega swarms noted in China, India, and certain parts of Canada.
4. Population imbalances. As humans cultivate agriculture, hunt, intrude on native spaces, and farm livestock; local predators, prey, and plant species are impacted. Creatures all across the food chain can be noted to be missing in locations where human impact is the greatest. I personally have been seeing less deer and hawks where I live. The same can go for animals. They simply migrate to somewhere more 'wild' or die out.

Yeah I’ve seen some alarming trends of stupidity or cruelty plain evil , I saw an article were one state forgot which one wanted to eradicate all the wolf population or 95%. But that’s another topic I won’t bother diving into here.
I’m more worried about the bugs going instinct because that’s catastrophic. And I swore cicadas were supposed to come back when I was 27 or something and they never did . So we’re did they go ? People seem dead set on eradicating all wild species of bugs , good or bad . Either way like you said it’s happening… maybe not all in purpose but I see tons to trees get cutdown for no reason in the-city !

 

[HooahArmy]

Yeah I’ve seen some alarming trends of stupidity or cruelty plain evil , I saw an article were one state forgot which one wanted to eradicate all the wolf population or 95%. But that’s another topic I won’t bother diving into here.
I’m more worried about the bugs going instinct because that’s catastrophic. And I swore cicadas were supposed to come back when I was 27 or something and they never did . So we’re did they go ? People seem dead set on eradicating all wild species of bugs , good or bad . Either way like you said it’s happening… maybe not all in purpose but I see tons to trees get cutdown for no reason in the-city !

The cicadas have moved onto military bases for safety from civilian idiocy (JK). Out in the forts at Georgia and South Carolina, there's billions.
More likely, they just like the isolation there since there are tracts of land that absolutely untouched save for the occasional training group once or twice a year. In parks and local cities, I rarely see cicadas.

 

[The Snark]

all wild species of bugs , good or bad .

There is only one bad species in nature. Organisms that can pass the Turing test but choose to not utilize the capabilities of the cerebral cortex which enables the organism to take the test in the first place. IE, humans suck. All other life just gets on with the business they were designed for or evolved into.

 

[Dry Desert]

Where are all the bugs going?
This has been a question popping up within the last 20 years. According to some research posts I've read, the number of bugs have been declining as a result of:
1. Habitat encroachment. As humans take up more critter habitable land, locations to breed and live grow lesser for insects. Concrete jungles and urban sprawls thus have less insects. The sounds of vehicles and the smells of human pollution also cause insects to move to other places.
2. Introduction of foreign species competition. Invasive species take a large toll on native insect populations, especially those which are small birds, amphibians, and fish. The latter two eat native insect larvae in large amounts.
3. Climate change. Insects are more sensitive to habitat-affecting climate change than larger animals. When the temperature or bio-clime shifts just a bit, they head for the hills resulting in oddball populations like the mega swarms noted in China, India, and certain parts of Canada.
4. Population imbalances. As humans cultivate agriculture, hunt, intrude on native spaces, and farm livestock; local predators, prey, and plant species are impacted. Creatures all across the food chain can be noted to be missing in locations where human impact is the greatest. I personally have been seeing less deer and hawks where I live. The same can go for animals. They simply migrate to somewhere more 'wild' or die out.

Surely point 5

Which should be point 2.

And which was conveniently missed out.

COLLECTION FOR THE PET TRADE.

 

[HooahArmy]

Surely point 5

Which should be point 2.

And which was conveniently missed out.

COLLECTION FOR THE PET TRADE.

I stated some of the points that were within an article I read listing major causes. Yep, you're right that collecting for the pet trade is one of the causes; the article unfortunately didn't touch upon that because it just spoke to a general audience about general stuff.
But the pet trade though!
Thank you very much for bringing that up! When we consider it, certain niche or endangered species are more damaged by poaching than habitat loss, human development, or just about anything else combined.

 

[The Snark]

Surely point 5

Which should be point 2.

Thank you very much for bringing that up! When we consider it, certain niche or endangered species are more damaged by poaching than habitat loss, human development, or just about anything else combined.

I was about to say. Idiots with guns, especially the .22, out popping things. But we must not not not NOT mention those several million idiots because popping anything they feel like that usually won't get them in trouble is an inalienable right.