Incubator questions

[dangerforceidle]

Update! I checked the eggs this morning and..

..I'm sorry but is this guy eating its sacmate??
View attachment 348646

There are two that are doing this. I see the little fangs moving up and down and the sacs next to them deflating.

This is blowing my mind. I didn't think they did this until 2i?

It's not terribly common, but yes EWL can eat their siblings.

 

[CommanderBacon]

It's not terribly common, but yes EWL can eat their siblings.

I have more than one doing it. Both of the more advanced EWL are eating nearby eggs. It took me a second to see what was happening.

 

[Fischer]

I recently experienced this with my B. hamorii sac. There were significant numbers of post embryos rolling over and munching their slower developing siblings. I split the eggs and post embryos (edit: just split them all 50/50) to two incubators but also figured “let the strong survive”
As long as no mold forms or the leftover from the egg doesn’t inhibit the specimen from molting, should be okay.

 

[CommanderBacon]

Hello can I offer you a new product

 

[Colorado Ts]

I knew that this occurred, but I was under the impression that it happened after they were more developed and when most of them had moulted. More of the stronger sac mates feeding on the weaker sac mates.

This one looks like it just moulted and is still living off the yolk from the egg.

 

[octanejunkie]

Great thread, following!

 

[CommanderBacon]

I knew that this occurred, but I was under the impression that it happened after they were more developed and when most of them had moulted. More of the stronger sac mates feeding on the weaker sac mates.

This one looks like it just moulted and is still living off the yolk from the egg.

Yeah, it IS an egg with legs! It literally just molted out of its egg skin yesterday morning and the limbs were moving last night.

This morning when I checked to see if I needed to remove any more eggs, I was pleased that they all still looked good, but there was much more movement from these two in particular. Then I noticed that their abdomens were somehow much larger than the developing eggs around them, and when I looked closer, I noticed they both appeared to be feeding nearby eggs! The eggs they are feeding on are deflating. One is almost completely eaten and looks like a deflated balloon.

It's fascinating, but I'd rather not have Baby Thunderdome, so I'm trying to figure out if I want to let nature take its course and have strong cannibal babies or if I should separate them and give them all an equal opportunity to grow.

 

[Colorado Ts]

Yeah, it IS an egg with legs! It literally just molted out of its egg skin yesterday morning and the limbs were moving last night.

This morning when I checked to see if I needed to remove any more eggs, I was pleased that they all still looked good, but there was much more movement from these two in particular. Then I noticed that their abdomens were somehow much larger than the developing eggs around them, and when I looked closer, I noticed they both appeared to be feeding nearby eggs! The eggs they are feeding on are deflating. One is almost completely eaten and looks like a deflated balloon.

It's fascinating, but I'd rather not have Baby Thunderdome, so I'm trying to figure out if I want to let nature take its course and have strong cannibal babies or if I should separate them and give them all an equal opportunity to grow.

I don’t know if there is enough room...Is it possible to use a paintbrush and move them apart so that they are not touching? Or maybe even setup another hatcher and divide the egg sac?

 

[CommanderBacon]

I don’t know if there is enough room...Is it possible to use a paintbrush and move them apart so that they are not touching? Or maybe even setup another hatcher and divide the egg sac?

I'm trying to think about how best to deal with Baby Thunderdome because I would like to separate them to some degree but I only have one 32 oz deli cup that a friend of mine swiped from work. It dips in the middle, so most of the eggs pool together there.

After speaking to a few breeder friends, they suggested that I just leave them all together because they have seen this before and that they suspect that it's the strong weeding out the weak, but I'll try to force some social distance on the EWLs to see if that will help.

I swear, one of the new ones was walking, dragging its egg butt along and acting almost like a real spider! It was neat, but not something I want to see when they're nomming on each other.

 

[octanejunkie]

I'm trying to think about how best to deal with Baby Thunderdome because I would like to separate them to some degree but I only have one 32 oz deli cup that a friend of mine swiped from work.

My supermarket gives me deli cups if I buy something from the deli and ask real nice for spares... try that.

Otherwise buy a sleeve of 50 from Smart and Final for $8

 

[CommanderBacon]

My supermarket gives me deli cups if I buy something from the deli and ask real nice for spares... try that.

Otherwise buy a sleeve of 50 from Smart and Final for $8

I'll go get one if it's a problem. I really have no need for 100 32oz deli cups but it's not much of an investment and I do need to do some grocery shopping anyway.

So far the others that have molted aren't eating their sac mates, at least. It was just the first two who were cannibals. None of the others have gone bad yet, so I really really hope Baby Thunderdome ends there.

 

[cold blood]

I'll go get one if it's a problem. I really have no need for 100 32oz deli cups but it's not much of an investment and I do need to do some grocery shopping anyway.

its $2 bunch of deli cups...just buy em
..lol....you keep ts, its not like you wont eventually use them.

peaking to a few breeder friends, they suggested that I just leave them all together

Definitely just leave them.....im not even sure what you are seeing is cannibalism, it could just be 2 eggs that got stuck and as one emerged it broke the other egg....typically they dont eat till 2i...in all my sacs ive produced, ive never personally seen real proof of them eating one another as 1i.....and although its not impossible, its absolutely not going to decimate your sac.

 

[CommanderBacon]

its $2 bunch of deli cups...just buy em
..lol....you keep ts, its not like you wont eventually use them.

I actually really hate deli cups and don’t use them for my spiders past the .75” size, when they will fit into something that isn’t an aesthetic disaster, typically DIY amac boxes or Herpcult enclosures.

I already have a massive sleeve of 16oz deli cups and I just use 4 of them for breeding mealworms. I will probably give the rest to breeders I know who live nearby.

If this experience doesn’t go horribly wrong, MAYBE I will buy some 32oz, but I’ll probably just have my friend steal more from work.

Definitely just leave them.....im not even sure what you are seeing is cannibalism, it could just be 2 eggs that got stuck and as one emerged it broke the other egg....

Nah, it is definitely not two eggs stuck together. I watched the sacs they were consuming deflate and their abdomens swell as the day went on. Their little fangs are digging into them and they are in feeding position. These kids are really chowing down, my dude.

 

[CommanderBacon]

Baby update! A lot more ewls today. You can tell which fat jerks ate their underdeveloped siblings, but I don’t see anyone else doing it, so maybe Baby Thunderdome is over.

One of these dorks was totally walking across the surface on its back like some awkward form of breakdancing.

 

[Kitara]

I cannot wait to see all the tiny blueberries!

 

[CommanderBacon]

Just an update from Baby Thunderdome.

I had a few others also eat eggs. The rest of the eggs I'm told look viable, just dramatically behind in development. I don't know why that would be, but I rolled them over to the side and have been rotating them a bit, trying to keep them out of reach of the Donner Party. None of them have turned black.

The two early adopter cannibals are starting to darken. Some of the other cannibals are in the center. You can see some still eating eggs.

The difference in size of abdomens of cannibals vs. non-cannibals is obvious.



I have to admit, I kind of want to keep one of the evil cannibal slings.

 

[Kitara]

They're described as either cannibal or non-cannibal. LOL

 

[CommanderBacon]

Update on the Fine Young Cannibals:

Picked up some 32oz deli cups today and separated out the eggs from the ewls.

Pulled two more eggs that were bad - one was going black and one appears to be a deceased ewl. You can see the little hairs on its butt!

23 ewls and 42 underdeveloped eggs, with 3 pulled means six were.. devoured.

Spoopy!

 

[Colorado Ts]

This is so fricken cool. Love the updates, the images, and the wonderful information.

 

[CommanderBacon]

I just peeked in on the babies this morning while I went to get some coffee and the eggs still aren't showing development. I'm starting to suspect they're all duds, and I'm curious if anyone has some feedback for me about the percentage of dud eggs to developing eggs, or if there was anything I might have done that would have contributed to this happening, since the ratio is quite high.

Most of the ewls are looking good, but some are looking weirdly moist and kind of misshapen at the same time, and I'm worried they're not going to make it.

I accidentally bumped the incubator when putting it back, however, and water splashed on the coffee filter, so I gently transferred them to a dry one and took a few photos with my clip-on macro lens.

I like how you can see little hairs on their abdomens and legs already. I wasn't expecting that at this stage. There's also some tiny lint, probably from ambient dust, but those are definitely hairs.

Here is one that is eating an egg, still:

This one is awesome because you can see its eyes developing:

And here's Cannibal Zero, close to molting I think, with a dry egg sac clutched to its mouthparts. I assume if it dried on, it'll come off with the molt: