ID Help on Malaysian spiders

[Stefan2209]

I'm trying to get an ID on these bad boys so they can be brought into the US. To the genus level at least. Anyone have any ideas? They are from western peninsular Malaysia... most likely Cameron Highlands.

Botar

Hi,

first and third looks like an undescribed Heteropoda species, to my info´s Peter Jäger (SENCKENBERG) is just working on the description.

Donno about the second.

The last one resembles Rhytimna spec., a closer look into it may perhaps pay out....

Good luck!

Greetings,

Stefan

 

[Bastian Drolshagen]

hi, just a simple question:
How do you differntiate Rhytimna from Heteropoda or other Sparassidae?

 

[RodG]

Well, I just got in 2 of #1 & #3 and 1 of #4 from Botar this morning and I can say the pictures do not do them justice. Way cool spiders! Now if only one of the females is gravid Thanks Botar for the spiders and let's hope you get in more of these and most importantly the #2 spider in November!!!:worship:

 

[Botar]

Here is a link to some of Randy's photos of #2... I'm anxious for him to get some good shots of #1/#3. I have some smaller blonde that I was assuming were mature males of #1/#3, but one of them molted... the pedipalps kept the same size/shape, so I'm at a complete loss now. I believe one of the females I kept may be making a sac, so we'll see what happens there. If it works out, I'll save back a bunch and we'll get a positive look at the males/females then.

http://venomlist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13230

I hope the link isn't against the rules now... if so, just let me know.

Botar

 

[lucanidae]

Penultimate males of most huntsmen will have large palps that look like they are mature. But unless you see the haematodocha they aren't ready yet. I've been confused by many Australian huntsmen that look like they've had post-ultimate molts but really have just become mature.

 

[Sof]

Wow I hope we get those in Canada some day That yellow one looks amazing

 

[Peter Grabowitz]

This is species from Malaysia sold as "Heteropoda boiei" this time

2 different females, this second one is mine, I have 2 eggcases this year


http://www.gherp.com/gherp/sms1.jpg

 

[Bastian Drolshagen]

hi Peter,
what makes you believe this is a Heteropoda sp.? I can only see that it is a Sparassidae, but I wouldn´t dare to claim it´s a Heteropoda sp. especially not when I´m going to sell those just like you.

Again:

just a simple question:
How do you differntiate Rhytimna from Heteropoda or other Sparassidae?

It´s the same but the other way round. How do you differntiate Heteropoda sp. from other Sparassidae (except from the habitus, which can also differ within one genus).

 

[Peter Grabowitz]

dear Bastian,

I WROTE "sold as" "Heteropda".....
I have no idea which species is it....
do you belive me? real!

I am only a breeder, not an expert like you.... ;-))

 

[Bastian Drolshagen]

hi Peter,
I´m not an expert too (especially not on Sparassidae), that´s why I´m asking.
I just wanted to know how to differntiate Heteropoda sp. from other Sparassidae (maybe scopula on tarsi; shape of the sternum...).
I just mentioned it because you oftentimes sell spiders under incorrect names, for example your C. brachyephalus (which is definetly no C. brachycephalus because of its SAB) or your Latrodectus lilianae (which are black <-- although the first description of this species says it´s white with a black pattern consisting of Vs (chevrons) on its abdomen).
Don´t get me wrong, I definetly don´t want to defame you here. I just want to mention that selling spiders under names such as Sparassidae sp. "Malaysia" is better than selling spiders under incorrect names.
Nobody said that those aren´t Heteropoda boiei, but it´s not sure unless somebody identified those Sparassidae as Heteropoda boiei.

 

[Peter Grabowitz]

....
I´m not an expert too (especially not on Sparassidae),

YES this is TRUE!! You are NOT an expert, but you do like you were one!

... for example your C. brachyephalus (which is definetly no C. brachycephalus....

this are Ceratogyrus brachycephalus from bread of Paul Carpenter,
that I bought last year for my breeding group. They were intentified by Richard Gallon!!!
And Richard IS ONE EXPERT!

.... Latrodectus lilianae (which are black <-- although the first description of this species says it´s white with a black pattern consisting of Vs (chevrons) on its abdomen).

1. you NEVER seen my Latr. lilianae

2. the pics on the description of this species are take by PRESERVED specimens
(many preserved specimens lost therir color in alcohol!!!!)

3. in Spain there are only Latr.tredecimgutattus and Latr. lilianae

(formely "Latr.schuhi", and the "L.schuhi" ARE blackish

4. this is NOT possible the mate a female of Latr. tredecimgutattus with one male of latr. lilianae
NOR Latr. tredecimgutattus with one male of the sa called "black Form of L.tredecimgutattus"

BTW - the TRUE "black Form of L.tredecimgutattus" is KARAKURT from Kazakhstan not Latr. lilianae from Spain

...I just want to mention that selling spiders under names such as Sparassidae sp. "Malaysia" is better than selling spiders under incorrect names....

so think I too....!!! but at moment there are more than 10 different species from Malaysia on the market....!

Nobody said that those aren´t Heteropoda boiei, but it´s not sure unless somebody identified those Sparassidae as Heteropoda boiei.

Spider under this name sell one german dealer - I never told they are H.boiei,
but they are sold as "Heteropoda boiei"

KEEP COOL, Bastian you're so young....

 

[Bastian Drolshagen]

hi,

YES this is TRUE!! You are NOT an expert, but you do like you were one!

How true, it´s just a fact that I´m not an expert on Sparassidae and I don´t even want to be one, cause those spiders do NOT interest me that much. I´m concentrating on other spider families.

1. you NEVER seen my Latr. lilianae

Sure I did, in the last few months I got several emails with pictures of Latrodectus sp. you sold as L. lilianae! Additionally I´ve got some specimen of that bloodline, originally from Almera Spain.

2. the pics on the description of this species are take by PRESERVED specimens
(many preserved specimens lost therir color in alcohol!!!!)

Sure, the coloration looses intesity when a specimen is deposed in alcohol, especially when it´s lying in there for a long time. But that´s coloration and not the pattern! What´s shown in the first description of L. lilianae is a pattern and not a coloration! Melic claims that the pattern of L. lilinae are pretty constant in both sexes, so a complete black Latrodectus rules L. lilianae out.

3. in Spain there are only Latr.tredecimgutattus and Latr. lilianae

So what, does that make every Latrodectus sp. that doesn´t show 13 red dots (pattern) a L. lilianae?

(formely "Latr.schuhi", and the "L.schuhi" ARE blackish

The only thing you could mean is L. schuchi, which has been synonymized with L. tredecimguttatus by Melic 2000 in his first description of L. lilianae (wonder why Platnick doesn´t consider that).
1 year later Schmidt, Piepho & Samm synonymized L. schuchi with L. mactans.

4. this is NOT possible the mate a female of Latr. tredecimgutattus with one male of latr. lilianae
NOR Latr. tredecimgutattus with one male of the sa called "black Form of L.tredecimgutattus"

I never claimed anything like that.

BTW - the TRUE "black Form of L.tredecimgutattus" is KARAKURT from Kazakhstan not Latr. lilianae from Spain

I´m sorry to say that, but here you´re definetly wrong and I can proof it.
It´s funny timing that you mention that now, cause I´ve got the first description of L. lilianae and there´re pretty nice drawings of the spermathecae of L. tredecimguttatus and L. lilianae (in comparison) in there. So what I did is getting my Latrodectus sp. "Almera" (formerly sold as L. lilianae --> YES, that black one!) and excluded its spermathecae. I compared the spermathecae with the two given in the first description (which can easily be distinguished) and guess what? The spermathecae of that Latrodectus sp. "Almera" looked exactly the same like the one of L. tredecimguttatus. The same was with the bifid abdominal setae - it is the same as described for L. tredecimguttatus.

Spider under this name sell one german dealer - I never told they are H.boiei,
but they are sold as "Heteropoda boiei"

I know, and I´ve seen those are sold as H. boiei (not by you).

KEEP COOL, Bastian you're so young....

I´m always trying
As mentioned before, I don´t want to defame you, to me it´s just conversation about spiders and not a argument. It´s not ment personally.

 

[Peter Grabowitz]

......As mentioned before, I don´t want to defame you, to me it´s just conversation about spiders and not a argument. It´s not ment personally.

so do I, too

we will drink a beer in Euskirchen, I hope

 

[Bastian Drolshagen]

I´ll be there

 

[Maybrick]

Hi everybody,
I think, this specimen really should be labeled as Sparassidae spec. ex Malaysia. And the reason is this and other reasons: In all pictures I have seen, H. boiei was coloured green with winered patterns (looks just wonderful, my dream Sparassidae ;-)).

Here is a picture:
http://www.fotoinsekt.de/spinnen220.htm

In a older thread of a german forum, I have read a quote (from a E-Mail) of Dr. Peter Jäger. His answer to the picture: (Quote: "Es ist tatsächlich eine Sparassidae. Mit großer Wahrscheinlichkeit eine Heteropoda boiei (Doleschall 1859).")

Just wanted to give these infos.
No matter what, this Sparassidae looks very nice, too ;-)

 

[Peter Grabowitz]

http://www.fotoinsekt.de/spinnen220.htm

In a older thread of a german forum, I have read a quote (from a E-Mail) of Dr. Peter Jäger. His answer to the picture: (Quote: "Es ist tatsächlich eine Sparassidae. Mit großer Wahrscheinlichkeit eine Heteropoda boiei (Doleschall 1859).")

Just wanted to give these infos.
No matter what, this Sparassidae looks very nice, too ;-)

Today are the slings hatched from the first eggcase by me....
there are about 150 specimens....
I labeled this box
"probably Sparassidae, origin: surly Taman Negara/penisular Malaysia" ;-)

 

[T.Raab]

this are Ceratogyrus brachycephalus from bread of Paul Carpenter,
that I bought last year for my breeding group. They were intentified by Richard Gallon!!!
And Richard IS ONE EXPERT!

Hi Peter,

can you show me a picture of the underside of the Spider?

Infact there were some mistakes in the past with the Name "C. brachycephalus". If you show me pics from the horn AND the underside, i can clear tell you if COULD be a real brachycephalus sensu HEWITT or not.

 

[Peter Grabowitz]

Hi Peter,

can you show me a picture of the underside of the Spider?

Infact there were some mistakes in the past with the Name "C. brachycephalus". If you show me pics from the horn AND the underside, i can clear tell you if COULD be a real brachycephalus sensu HEWITT or not.

is it one?

 

[T.Raab]

Hi Peter,

the single SAB with light booklung covers and the Horn looks really like a C. brachycephalus senus HEWITT. The problem, that Bastian means, is that in the past often C. sanderi (with double SAB) was sold as C. brachycephalus.