ID for these two spiders please.

Abdulkarim Elnaas

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Found these little guys in coastal Misrata, Libya. It was raining so they were taking cover under some debris. Also, could I get their sex please?

First one is a Lycosid. The body is about 1.5cm long. Is it gravid? Looks quite plump to me. 20161223_200951.jpg 20161223_201009.jpg 20161223_201100.jpg

I was told that the second one is a Sparassid. It is also 1.5 cm in body length. Unlike the Lycosid, it seems to have absolutely no trouble climbing on plastic. Very fast, too. I found it under some tiles, probably also taking shelter from the rain. I thought it was just an especially beautiful wolf spider untel later examination in the car. 20161223_202654.jpg 20161223_201416.jpg 20161223_201618.jpg 20161223_201308.jpg
 

Malhavoc's

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Not entirely sure on the ID, but both are female, second one looks like a Nursery web spider of some sort (Pisauridae)
 

Abdulkarim Elnaas

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Actually, someone else is insisting that it is, in fact, a Sparassid. The reasons he gave where the thick legs and the tarsi on this particular spider, as well as the fact that it can climb over smooth surfaces (even vaseline) - an observation I made after keeping it for some time. My Lycosid can't even get its front legs to stop slipping when it tries, never mind getting its body off the ground. Meanwhile, the Sparassid spends basically all of its time in the upper corner of its plastic container, just comfortably hanging on the container wall. When I dropped a moth in, it waited for the moth to climb up close and then it pounced on it and subdued it while still hanging on the plastic.
 

Malhavoc's

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Actually, someone else is insisting that it is, in fact, a Sparassid. The reasons he gave where the thick legs and the tarsi on this particular spider, as well as the fact that it can climb over smooth surfaces (even vaseline) - an observation I made after keeping it for some time. My Lycosid can't even get its front legs to stop slipping when it tries, never mind getting its body off the ground. Meanwhile, the Sparassid spends basically all of its time in the upper corner of its plastic container, just comfortably hanging on the container wall. When I dropped a moth in, it waited for the moth to climb up close and then it pounced on it and subdued it while still hanging on the plastic.
It is an observation, but eye lay out, and general structure of the cephlathorax has me leaning toward my original Id. I however have little experience with Libya spiders

Quick edit, it looks to be gravid, Nursey web spiders get their name for unique care of offspring, so if it is. you'll have a pretty positive Id that way.
 

Abdulkarim Elnaas

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It is an observation, but eye lay out, and general structure of the cephlathorax has me leaning toward my original Id. I however have little experience with Libya spiders

Quick edit, it looks to be gravid, Nursey web spiders get their name for unique care of offspring, so if it is. you'll have a pretty positive Id that way.
Is the wolf spider gravid as well? The Sparassid has eaten (the moth I mentioned earlier) but I dropped a grasshopper in after removing its legs and the Lycosid hasn't shown too much interest. It just constantly hides under the rocks in its enclosure. Will it eat if it is about to produce an egg sac? I'll stop opening the container and flipping its rock over for a few days and see if it reacts positively to that.
 

Hanska

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I agree that the second one is not a Sparassid. Not definetly sure but Pisauridae is a good bet on the family.
 

Tarantula_Hawk

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I am not entirely sure about the Lycosid. What is the size? Can you get a ventral and a frontal shot?

The second one is indeed a Sparassidae, genus Micrommata. Might be M. formosa which is recorded for northern africa, or another similar species. Either way, Micrommata sp.
 

Ungoliant

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Seconding (or thirding or whatever) the ID of Sparassidae for the second spider.


Is the wolf spider gravid as well? The Sparassid has eaten (the moth I mentioned earlier) but I dropped a grasshopper in after removing its legs and the Lycosid hasn't shown too much interest. It just constantly hides under the rocks in its enclosure. Will it eat if it is about to produce an egg sac? I'll stop opening the container and flipping its rock over for a few days and see if it reacts positively to that.
She looks gravid. Mine was not very interested in prey when she was that big, but I don't know whether you can really generalize from that one experience to your wolf spider. You can try offering a prey item (that is smaller than the wolf spider's abdomen), and if she doesn't take it, remove it.
 

Abdulkarim Elnaas

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Seconding (or thirding or whatever) the ID of Sparassidae for the second spider.




She looks gravid. Mine was not very interested in prey when she was that big, but I don't know whether you can really generalize from that one experience to your wolf spider. You can try offering a prey item (that is smaller than the wolf spider's abdomen), and if she doesn't take it, remove it.
Yeah, there is a small darkling beetle which the Lycosid hasn't touched. There is also a sand cockroach, but it kinda just disappeared under ground. Do spiders usually go for black beetles?
 

Abdulkarim Elnaas

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I am not entirely sure about the Lycosid. What is the size? Can you get a ventral and a frontal shot?

The second one is indeed a Sparassidae, genus Micrommata. Might be M. formosa which is recorded for northern africa, or another similar species. Either way, Micrommata sp.
Thanks for the ID. I thought it migh be Micrommata, but the color put me off.

The body of the Lycosid is approx 1.5 cm. I can't get any photos today because of exams, but I'll try and post some as soon as I can.

I also got my hands on an Argiope trifasciata. It will take anything that the other spiders won't eat. Is there a danger of me overfeeding or will it just store them for later?
 

Ungoliant

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Yeah, there is a small darkling beetle which the Lycosid hasn't touched. There is also a sand cockroach, but it kinda just disappeared under ground. Do spiders usually go for black beetles?
I tend not to offer beetles to my spiders, because they are hard and have strong jaws. (I also avoid giving them ants, which contain formic acid in addition to being able to bite or sting.)


I also got my hands on an Argiope trifasciata. It will take anything that the other spiders won't eat. Is there a danger of me overfeeding or will it just store them for later?
I've never successfully kept an orbweaver in captivity. (They need lots of space to make webs.)

Most spiders are opportunistic feeders that will eat whenever prey is available (even if they're not that hungry), provided they aren't preparing to molt or recovering from a molt.

Routinely overfeeding may shorten its lifespan, but it probably doesn't pose any acute threat. (Unlike tarantulas, risk of rupture during a fall is minimal when they are living in a web.)

I don't feed my true spiders on any schedule. I just look at their abdomens to gauge whether they should be given another meal.
 

Abdulkarim Elnaas

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I am not entirely sure about the Lycosid. What is the size? Can you get a ventral and a frontal shot?

The second one is indeed a Sparassidae, genus Micrommata. Might be M. formosa which is recorded for northern africa, or another similar species. Either way, Micrommata sp.
I couldn't really get a ventral shot and the internet is too slow to upload anything but this facial shot (I have some good side and abdominal shots - not sure if those would help) within my study break. Is it Hogna as well?
20170103_202204.jpg
 

Abdulkarim Elnaas

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I tend not to offer beetles to my spiders, because they are hard and have strong jaws. (I also avoid giving them ants, which contain formic acid in addition to being able to bite or sting.)




I've never successfully kept an orbweaver in captivity. (They need lots of space to make webs.)

Most spiders are opportunistic feeders that will eat whenever prey is available (even if they're not that hungry), provided they aren't preparing to molt or recovering from a molt.

Routinely overfeeding may shorten its lifespan, but it probably doesn't pose any acute threat. (Unlike tarantulas, risk of rupture during a fall is minimal when they are living in a web.)

I don't feed my true spiders on any schedule. I just look at their abdomens to gauge whether they should be given another meal.
My Argiope is probably in my smallest spider container, way smaller than the Sparassid, with only a cheap bundle of those silk-and-wire flowers (the ones people sometimes put on presents or in napkins) and a piece of wood, and she webs absolutely everything, including the lid of her enclosure. I usually end up breaking a good portion of her masterpiece when I check on her, only to find that she has fixed it a short while later.

Whenever I stick anything on her web she does this crazily dextrous dance around the prey item. The vent that releases her webs bulges out into an orange lump and releases these sheets of web instead of single threads. Its like she is pulling laundry out of her butt. The prey is usually wrapped within like 10 seconds. She then quickly looks for a soft spot, bites the unfortunate insect, and retreats to another part of her web untel she thinks her meal is ready. All this with me having broken part of her web while opening the container and staring intensely at her. Probably my favorite spider so far, and the easiest to control.
 

Ungoliant

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My Argiope is probably in my smallest spider container, way smaller than the Sparassid, with only a cheap bundle of those silk-and-wire flowers (the ones people sometimes put on presents or in napkins) and a piece of wood, and she webs absolutely everything, including the lid of her enclosure. I usually end up breaking a good portion of her masterpiece when I check on her, only to find that she has fixed it a short while later.
Do you have any pictures of this setup (and the spider)?
 

Abdulkarim Elnaas

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Do you have any pictures of this setup (and the spider)?
20170104_101428.jpg
That is a 30cm ruler. Very low enclosure.

I would have taken better pics but I couldn't open it fully today (it has a rubber lid so I can open one side without overly disturbing the other) because...well... 20170104_101147.jpg
...the other side is completely webbed and that appears to be an egg sac.

Here is a picture I took of her on day one with me. 20161229_203242.jpg

EDIT: I was planning on moving her to a bigger tank when I get some free time (these exams are killing me) but the egg sac complicates things, especially since it is attached directly to the lid. I'm assuming it is quite humid in there, I don't know what that might do to the eggs. I originally had her in a much taller tank but it needed airholes and I never got to doing that cuz the exams were about to start.
 
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Ungoliant

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Very nice!

I was planning on moving her to a bigger tank when I get some free time (these exams are killing me) but the egg sac complicates things, especially since it is attached directly to the lid. I'm assuming it is quite humid in there, I don't know what that might do to the eggs. I originally had her in a much taller tank but it needed airholes and I never got to doing that cuz the exams were about to start.
As long as you're not seeing condensation or mold, the ventilation is probably fine. If you are, add some top and cross ventilation.

An egg sac is basically its own micro-climate. The silk keeps the contents from drying out.
 

Abdulkarim Elnaas

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I am not entirely sure about the Lycosid. What is the size? Can you get a ventral and a frontal shot?

The second one is indeed a Sparassidae, genus Micrommata. Might be M. formosa which is recorded for northern africa, or another similar species. Either way, Micrommata sp.
Here are some other pictures, while the internet is still holding up.
20170103_201822.jpg 20170103_201642.jpg 20170103_201352.jpg 20170103_201238.jpg
 

Abdulkarim Elnaas

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It is an observation, but eye lay out, and general structure of the cephlathorax has me leaning toward my original Id. I however have little experience with Libya spiders

Quick edit, it looks to be gravid, Nursey web spiders get their name for unique care of offspring, so if it is. you'll have a pretty positive Id that way.
She has layed her sack.

Before: 20170105_165357.jpg

After: 20170106_020734.jpg 20170106_020723.jpg

In both before and after pictures she is being defensive because of me opening the lid and making everything vibrate and creating a ruckus. However, after she layed, she seemed to be prioritizing the eggs. She kinda just curled around them and faced the direction of the presumed threat.

EDIT: That webb carpet on the wall in both the before and after pics (behind the egg sac) isn't something I've seen her build before today. From what I've observed, she doesn't even hunt with webs. She just stalks and pounces. When she started making it I knew something was up.
 
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Malhavoc's

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She has layed her sack.

Before: View attachment 228475

After: View attachment 228476 View attachment 228477

In both before and after pictures she is being defensive because of me opening the lid and making everything vibrate and creating a ruckus. However, after she layed, she seemed to be prioritizing the eggs. She kinda just curled around them and faced the direction of the presumed threat.

EDIT: That webb carpet on the wall in both the before and after pics (behind the egg sac) isn't something I've seen her build before today. From what I've observed, she doesn't even hunt with webs. She just stalks and pounces. When she started making it I knew something was up.

Great pics! and it made my guess on an ID fly out the window, the nursery web spiders typically build either a sac they can carry with them, or an elaborate silken nursery that they guard neither of which this spider has done, Sorry I couldn't help more!
 
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