I want to hear more of Snarks Akita

[The Snark]

Dobes aren't even defensive, they are protective when appropriate, but that's about it. Big, sucky mush balls in a scary dog body ...

There there. We understand. You love the thing and it's the end all, be all of animals. But let's be honest, I've encountered scarier things in my breakfast cereal. Admittedly I have a nicely twisted and warped take on the world and just about any dog that bears it's fangs can give you a good fright but bouncemonsters just fail to fall into the wet-your-pants category. The critters that make me nervous are the ones that don't confront. Don't move rapidly but very slowly as they exude an air of malice aforethought. The ones that make your imagination work overtime like coming back from a hike to find a cougar track on top of your own. The bear sniffing around the flimsy cabin door when you are armed with a chain saw that won't start and an 18 inch iron skillet. A dobie just wouldn't instill the same consternation. Unless it was wearing antlers.

 

[Tleilaxu]

Good Lord, My German Shepherd's character can be summed up like this:

What have you done for me?
Im not doing anything for you until you do something for me first.

My yellow lab, Anything I can do for you? Anything, anything?

 

[Shell]

There there. We understand. You love the thing and it's the end all, be all of animals. But let's be honest, I've encountered scarier things in my breakfast cereal. Admittedly I have a nicely twisted and warped take on the world and just about any dog that bears it's fangs can give you a good fright but bouncemonsters just fail to fall into the wet-your-pants category. The critters that make me nervous are the ones that don't confront. Don't move rapidly but very slowly as they exude an air of malice aforethought. The ones that make your imagination work overtime like coming back from a hike to find a cougar track on top of your own. The bear sniffing around the flimsy cabin door when you are armed with a chain saw that won't start and an 18 inch iron skillet. A dobie just wouldn't instill the same consternation. Unless it was wearing antlers.

I don't think you're really getting what I'm trying to say. I'm NOT afraid of the breed at all, and I find it ridiculous that many people are, but owning them shows just how many people are, sadly, and it's typically due to their appearance. I don't like them because people are scared of them, I wish they weren't, because they are lovely dogs, but most people we encounter who are afraid of them tell me it's due to the way they look. That was the point I was trying to make.

They have an undeserved reputation, based partly on appearance, and partly on media (like quite a few other breeds that many people are afraid of). I never once said he/they are the end all be all of animals just explaining the breed a bit more, as many people who have never owned/worked one have a lot of misconceptions about them. Him and I spend a lot of time advocating the breed, and teaching people why they in fact are NOT something to be feared.

 

[The Snark]

I don't think you're really getting what I'm trying to say. I'm NOT afraid of the breed at all, and I find it ridiculous that many people are, but owning them shows just how many people are, sadly, and it's typically due to their appearance. I don't like them because people are scared of them, I wish they weren't, because they are lovely dogs, but most people we encounter who are afraid of them tell me it's due to the way they look. That was the point I was trying to make.

They have an undeserved reputation, based partly on appearance, and partly on media (like quite a few other breeds that many people are afraid of). I never once said he/they are the end all be all of animals just explaining the breed a bit more, as many people who have never owned/worked one have a lot of misconceptions about them. Him and I spend a lot of time advocating the breed, and teaching people why they in fact are NOT something to be feared.

I don't think you are really getting what I'm trying to say. It's called pulling your chain.

The words your are looking for are stereotyping and profiling. A lot of the bad rep the dobie has was the same flash and crash media hype the Pitbull and the Rottweiller are suffering from. Back in the 1950's the doberman was the all-the-rage deadly attack dog. Moronidiots trained them just like the pitbull so they could strut around and show off how bad arsed their four legged phallus infatuation was. Unfortunately, the reputation stuck. The dobie just got replaced somewhat by a different bad arsed flug dog in recent years.

What I'm conveying is more about first impressions. I'm a 7 year old kid visiting my aunt out in the countryside. My parents were unaware of the dangers of the back yard and I went out to do 7 year old industrious things. The 'great flying herd' as my aunt described them invaded. 5 dobermans came flying over the 6 foot board fence and knocked me to the ground with those noses. They then proceeded to nose boink and lick me into a state of helpless giggles where my aunt had to come to my rescue. For some reason she had chosen a small cardboard box as her weapon of choice for Dobie whacking which just got them more excited and playful. I was finally dragged back into the house, damp with slobber, my aunt was left panting, and the dobies ate the box. Ever since that time I've never taken dobie threats too seriously. I have a much greater fear and respect of standard poodles, still bearing a scar on my hand from an encounter when I was about 5.

Seriously, I strongly feel dobies are out of their element in the role of guard/attack dogs. Sure they can be trained just like almost any other dog to take that role, but the impression I have of a dobie is smart, good hearted, fun loving, and usually overly energetic. Protective, definitely, highly oriented to living with a loving family, but, lurking somewhere inside nearly all of them, a comedian/clown streak, seen in those occasions when it does something that elicits the human response, usually yelled or bellowed, 'WHAT IN HECK...'.

As a PS. I went completely bananas over that back yard and became an instant arachnophilac ever since. For some unknown reason it was completely over ran by countless lycosids. You could lie down in the grass and quickly turn into the newest exotic lyco hunting ground. Just try and not get the shivers and giggles as a couple dozen spiders investigate every inch of your clothing and body. Sadly, many years later I visited the area. Wall to wall modern sterile housing tract, paved, laced with thousands of poisons, and extremely hostile to those weird people who like to crawl around on the grass looking for critters.

 

[Shell]

You can have that impression of them as "guard" dogs (I hate that term) but it's dead wrong. Yes, you've nailed their personality when no threat is present, but when there is a threat, they're a completely different dog. All business, dead serious, and not a dog I'd want to mess with if I was up to something I shouldn't be (and being a tech for 14 yrs, plus training dogs for just as long, I'm not even remotely intimidated by any dog..,except chihuahuas....ankle biters from hell ). I have yet to meet a breed better at determining friend from foe, as a Dobe, and they absolutely act appropriately. Unless you own and live with one you likely will never see them in protection mode (unless you're the "bad guy"), as they truly do act appropriately, and don't get into that mode unless absolutely needed.

Anyway, I live with them, and have worked with them for a long time (long before Bruce) and know exactly how this breed is. You can have your opinion, and while it's right in some ways, it's not in others. They aren't scary or vicious, but absolutely can and do protect (and do it very well) when needed. Just ask my abusive ex what happened with Bruce when he showed up unannounced the other day...

And quite frankly, I'll take your opinion of dobes to heart when you have actually owned and lived with them. I've never owned an Akita...I've worked with them, and have my opinion of them, but that certainly doesn't mean it's right since I don't have nearly much experience with them as someone who has actually owned and lived with one...

 

[pitbulllady]

I don't think you are really getting what I'm trying to say. It's called pulling your chain.

The words your are looking for are stereotyping and profiling. A lot of the bad rep the dobie has was the same flash and crash media hype the Pitbull and the Rottweiller are suffering from. Back in the 1950's the doberman was the all-the-rage deadly attack dog. Moronidiots trained them just like the pitbull so they could strut around and show off how bad arsed their four legged phallus infatuation was. Unfortunately, the reputation stuck. The dobie just got replaced somewhat by a different bad arsed flug dog in recent years.

What I'm conveying is more about first impressions. I'm a 7 year old kid visiting my aunt out in the countryside. My parents were unaware of the dangers of the back yard and I went out to do 7 year old industrious things. The 'great flying herd' as my aunt described them invaded. 5 dobermans came flying over the 6 foot board fence and knocked me to the ground with those noses. They then proceeded to nose boink and lick me into a state of helpless giggles where my aunt had to come to my rescue. For some reason she had chosen a small cardboard box as her weapon of choice for Dobie whacking which just got them more excited and playful. I was finally dragged back into the house, damp with slobber, my aunt was left panting, and the dobies ate the box. Ever since that time I've never taken dobie threats too seriously. I have a much greater fear and respect of standard poodles, still bearing a scar on my hand from an encounter when I was about 5.

Seriously, I strongly feel dobies are out of their element in the role of guard/attack dogs. Sure they can be trained just like almost any other dog to take that role, but the impression I have of a dobie is smart, good hearted, fun loving, and usually overly energetic. Protective, definitely, highly oriented to living with a loving family, but, lurking somewhere inside nearly all of them, a comedian/clown streak, seen in those occasions when it does something that elicits the human response, usually yelled or bellowed, 'WHAT IN HECK...'.

As a PS. I went completely bananas over that back yard and became an instant arachnophilac ever since. For some unknown reason it was completely over ran by countless lycosids. You could lie down in the grass and quickly turn into the newest exotic lyco hunting ground. Just try and not get the shivers and giggles as a couple dozen spiders investigate every inch of your clothing and body. Sadly, many years later I visited the area. Wall to wall modern sterile housing tract, paved, laced with thousands of poisons, and extremely hostile to those weird people who like to crawl around on the grass looking for critters.

That is the beauty of a well-bred Dobe, though. They ARE fun-loving goof-balls most of the time, but they have the most uncanny knack for determining what is and what is not a threat, and know just the right amount of force to use in dealing with things that ARE threats. Dobermans weren't bred to be guard dogs. They were bred specifically to protect PEOPLE. That's the difference in them, and say, a Catahoula, which was bred by Louisiana backwoods folk to treat all intruders as threats and to take no prisoners. When I first went to visit my friend in Georgia who bred Dobes, the dogs barked to let her know someone had arrived, but greeted me-a non-threatening individual who acted like I had every right to be there-as a long-lost friend. A few weeks later, though, a guy robbed a convenience store not far from her house, and fled straight into her yard running from the police. He got knocked flat on his butt and rolled around by four Dobermans, and gave up immediately. He did not get injured, though. The dogs realized that while he didn't have any business there, he had no means of which to fight them. They used just the amount of force needed to knock him down and keep him there. They weren't playing, by any means, but they didn't maul him, either. Dobermans and Standard Poodles have probably the best intuition of being able to recognize a threat, and determine how much force to deal with it, instead of taking the "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" that most guard dog breeds adopt.

pitbulllady

 

[The Snark]

... And quite frankly, I'll take your opinion of dobes to heart when you have actually owned and lived with them. I've never owned an Akita...I've worked with them, and have my opinion of them, but that certainly doesn't mean it's right since I don't have nearly much experience with them as someone who has actually owned and lived with one...

And on that note may I go PFFFFFFTB! at you. I once did a friend a mutual favor, him giving me a room to stay in for 3 months and in turn I kept an eye on the place and fed the dogs. The dogs... to be precise, the place was a junk yard. Car wrecking emporium. And the dogs were Doberman Pinscher junk yard GUARD dogs.

These three dogs lived up to their reputation with the junk yard smack in the middle of an LA ghetto. With ease they would mount the stacks of cars, 3 or 4 high, and survey their domain. Nothing got past their eagles nest observations or their sense of hearing and smell. Scaling the 10 foot sheet metal and barbed wire fence, or cutting through it, meant certain doom.

I was handed the keys to the place, little metal things, and the keys to the dogs. A large bath towel. Actually, there was a stack of about 10 towels. When one wore out you grabbed another. I was sternly warned, "Don't forget the damned towel or you're a goner".
So I checked that the office and warehouse was locked up that first evening then went out the back door with towel in hand to feed the dogs. They saw 3 things. 1. The dog food, 2, I was coming out from the office and 3, I had THE TOWEL. It was like a combination lock. They turned into frolicking romp monsters. My arm was nearly torn from it's socket several times as one or more of them would grab the towel and try to drag me for a few laps around the yard. I wouldn't recommend going into that yard at night without the correct combination to turn those slavering fangs and snarls into playful chow hounds though.

But on reflection, they weren't mean dogs, or truly vicious. They were protective and they had a job that they knew very well. Yes they would have shredded an intruder but that was part of the job description. I had a lot of fun with them in the evenings, especially the matron lady of the crowd. She'd get calmed down pretty quick and sit by me, just being companionable. Now and then I'd get her head in my lap for some petting. They really were good natured animals at heart.

 

[Shell]

But on reflection, they weren't mean dogs, or truly vicious. They were protective and they had a job that they knew very well. Yes they would have shredded an intruder but that was part of the job description. I had a lot of fun with them in the evenings, especially the matron lady of the crowd. She'd get calmed down pretty quick and sit by me, just being companionable. Now and then I'd get her head in my lap for some petting. They really were good natured animals at heart.

Yes, that's the entire point I've been trying to make. They ARE good natured dogs, they are not mean or vicious, BUT they are very good at the job they were bred to do, and if they determine someone a threat, will do a damn good job at protecting. They were not bred to be junk yard dogs, or guard dogs. They were bred to be personal protection dogs (and there's a huge difference between that and being left alone outside to protect property, they are far more protective of their humans than of territory). They were bred to stay with their master and protect him/her at all times, and that job they are very good at, all while still being good natured dogs.

I've worked with a lot of different breeds, lots of working breeds, lots of "protection" and, "guard" types. The Doberman is one of the best for determining a real threat, and those are the only ones they act on. It's a trait that is quite valuable to me, as Bruce is a sort of service dog to two children with severe autism. One is non verbal, so he needs to be able to determine who is safe to approach them (doctors, therapists etc) and those who are potentially a threat, and so far he has not let us down. And on that note, I'm out

 

[The Snark]

Yes, that's the entire point I've been trying to make. They ARE good natured dogs, they are not mean or vicious, BUT they are very good at the job they were bred to do, and if they determine someone a threat, will do a damn good job at protecting. They were not bred to be junk yard dogs, or guard dogs. They were bred to be personal protection dogs (and there's a huge difference between that and being left alone outside to protect property, they are far more protective of their humans than of territory). They were bred to stay with their master and protect him/her at all times, and that job they are very good at, all while still being good natured dogs.

I've worked with a lot of different breeds, lots of working breeds, lots of "protection" and, "guard" types. The Doberman is one of the best for determining a real threat, and those are the only ones they act on. It's a trait that is quite valuable to me, as Bruce is a sort of service dog to two children with severe autism. One is non verbal, so he needs to be able to determine who is safe to approach them (doctors, therapists etc) and those who are potentially a threat, and so far he has not let us down. And on that note, I'm out

I think you are bridling at labels but that's non relevant here. The dobie (and a few similar dogs but let's limit it to dobies) have what I call flexible parameters. Able to think outside the box so to speak, and redefine the box pretty much at will. This seems to be quite rare in dogs. Most establish a fixed parameter (and perimeter) and that is that. They've got a marked territory and strut and so on.
The dobie is acutely aware of it's surroundings. It also utilizes multiple senses, orchestrating them. When I watched the two brothers in the junk yard they didn't just wander and sniff as typical territorial dogs. Sniffing one moment, climbing the cars and using their eyesight, pausing and listening. A study in extreme awareness of their surroundings. Compare to the hound that is nose down and the heck with anything it doesn't smell. One trait that stuck in my mind was watching those two range over the vast junk yard, one would suddenly freeze, staring into the distance in what I called radar mode. Those guys were covering that 4 acre yard and nothing was being missed.

My Akita used radar mode but it's interests were more limited. More primal so to speak. It didn't maintain perimeters, constantly reassessing, more that what suited his itinerary of hunting and maintaining HIS space. In that junk yard he would have been useless. Maybe an intruder would have been noticed but protecting a defined area for a human's requirements was not in his book.

I feel reasonably certain that you could have taken those three junk yard dogs and introduced them into a confined area like a house and family and in a very short period of time they would have completely revised their priorities and itineraries. Using empathy they would also define the humans and what they do and become aware of the human take on activities and boundaries. Flexible parameters.