Hysterocrates hercules what exacually is the fuss?

[bloodred1889]

Ok I don't keep up with new species in the hobby until they are not so rare anymore, so im sure these are something to shout about.
can someone explain why they are so mysterious, or cool?
are they massive or something, where are they from? whats going on?

thanks

 

[Philth]

It has a cool name :}

Later, Tom

 

[Marijan2]

There is rumor that H. hercules practically dissapeared in hobby and he is impossible to get.

 

[McGuiverstein]

There is rumor that H. hercules practically dissapeared in hobby and he is impossible to get.

I could be wrong, but if memory serves H. hercules was never in the hobby, and the spiders that are sold as hercules are actually gigas. To me, it's a classic case of want-but-cant-have-because-if-the-warlords-don't-get-you-while-you're-trying-to-collect-them-the-animals-will. Of course, that's how it supposedly is in the good old US of A. This may not be true in Croatia.

 

[Cydaea]

I came cross a Dutch seller (same guy I got my B.smithi and B.boehmei slings from) that sells H. hercules slings. I can't be sure it actually is hercules, of course, but could it be that they're still in the hobby in Europe?

 

[Scolopeon]

What is not to like?

Cool name, mysterious lore... Finally, A danger story all rolled into one if you have heard about the area.

The spider itself has a massive domed carapace, powerful chelicirae.. Is the largest old world, dethroning the KB for mass, although the Phoneyusa genus looks impressive.

The specimen in Russ Gurleys A picture guide looks as impressive as a blondi.

This is an 8" specimen I had imported from Nigeria, acts like a blondi without the hair kicking, is it the real deal? I have no idea, I just love the look and attitude of it.



Similar size to my KB, here is a shot for comparison:

 

[Scolopeon]

What is not to like?

Cool name, mysterious lore... Finally, A danger story all rolled into one if you have heard about the area.

The spider itself has a massive domed carapace, powerful chelicirae.. Is the largest old world, dethroning the KB for mass, although the Phoneyusa genus looks impressive.

The specimen in Russ Gurleys A picture guide looks as impressive as a blondi.

This is an 8" specimen I had imported from Nigeria, acts like a blondi without the hair kicking, is it the real deal? I have no idea, I just love the look and attitude of it.

View attachment 113232

Similar size to my KB, here is a shot for comparison:

View attachment 113233

View attachment 113235

View attachment 113236

Just for you I got my copy of the book out and snapped a pic... The fact that there is no proof this is the real hercules, further adds to the mystery, the spider here has a serious cephalophorax though.

 

[Philth]

I like how you put your water mark on someone else's picture lol

Later, Tom

 

[Scolopeon]

Now to add to this, Arachnidsrva has imported his own specimens from Nigeria, all massive, with one over 8", they have a similar structure and features but his are more grey to black, could there be regional variations in Nigeria, or does he have himself A Phoneyusa sp. He is currently waiting for them to be examined by the authority of Baboon Spiders, Mr. Richard Gallon, so that will prove to be interesting. I hope he will contribute some pictures to this topic.

Here is a sp. of Phoneyusa, these are probably not in the hobby also...

http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/index.php/Tarantulas/birdspiders_0735


A lot of users on here are undoubtedly fed up of reading about this "mythical" Tarantula, I for one am fascinated by the prospect of monster old worlds.
The actor from Lost, Dominique Monaghan was supposed to be leading a trip to Nigeria to find the hercules, not sure what came of it though.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

IMO some-were the Goliath bird-eater must have a Equally sized Old worlder , perhaps these can grow as large
You would think the King baboons would have a Larger relative LOL

 

[Philth]

Oh come on now, I was just having a little fun here. My first comment is very relevant to the topic, as there is some truth to it. There is definitely some attraction to this species because of the name.

Later, Tom

 

[Scolopeon]

Yep, shame they have to be exaggeratted, but regardless hercules is up there with King Baboon in size.

So in this compilation I put together back in 2009/2010, you can see the type specimen, the real deal.. I did a double take when looking at the carapace, in true Hysterocrates fashion the abdomen is undersized and oblong, so it didn't match the Goliath, however we are talking about a spider with a large cephalophorax and span.

Measurements were also taken..
"Pocock did (taken from Smith's Baboon spiders book) length 90mm Carapace 36mm x30mm, leg I 81mm, leg IV 90mm gives an idea to over all size." - you are looking at a spider 7.5" - 8.5" based on this measurement, not the monster size claimed, but no slouch for a Hysterocrates.
Interestingly, large Hysterocrates gigas can equal this size, with reports of specimens of over 8" known, other Hysterocrates can also approach this size; H.laticeps, H.scepticus, H.ederi, in no particular order.


The exact reason these are so elusive was explained by Michael Jacobi:
"Originally Posted by Natemass
when is someone going to get those buggers in the hobby!"

"When you hire a large contingent of mercenaries and special forces commandos, do a HALO (high-altitude, low-opening) parachute drop into the upper Niger Delta (probably the most dangerous place on Earth), avoid the gunboats and forests full of soldiers that will kill all but their own, find the monsters and wait for your gunship extraction team... The region is very hostile with the local warloads none too keen on outsiders, especially due to the petroleum interests in the area.

Cheers, Michael"

 

[Scolopeon]

[/COLOR]This link to Dr. Karl Shukers blog should fill you in about the real size of the holotype and what happened with the expedition to find it:

http://karlshuker.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/hobbit-actor-and-real-life-shelob-or.html

Unfortunately the myth surrounding this spider is even larger than the spider itself, this causes massive problems when the genus Hysterocrates is a complete mess anyways and has led to almost every dealer labeling gigas as hercules for a quick profit. In reality no one knows what they have... Save some key identifying features between sp. and even then the lines are blurred because of more than one species having these aforementioned traits.
Hybridisation in this hobby was inevitable, which has led to the hobby H.gigas being referred to as "pet trade gigas" An effort to correct this by labeling Hysterocrates where they were originally caught has been started... e.g.. H. sp. Cameroon, H. sp. Nigeria... And so on.

The state of Hysterocrates in the hobbt can be read here:
http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=3781

Save nothing short of a complete sp. restart (which is underway) and reclassifying these African spiders, again underway by Mr. Gallon.

We are going to have this confusion for quite some time.

 

[arachnidsrva]

I didn't directly get them imported - but I have " a guy " that brings in all kinds of wacky stuff from Africa. The Afrikans work hard to get the "best snakes", even over threat of violence.

"My guy" called me and said "I've got some wacky stuff I've never seen before" - He knew I wanted them - I picked up specimens at two different times and then one of his Afrikans was murdered.

So their "collecting territories" are most likely controversial. There are good odds they won't come back around until someone gets the balls to go back where they were at.

Scolopeon - Don't sweat Tom, he's busting your balls because he can. He can also back it up too so you've got to give it to him. He spent some time shooting my Baboons in Arizona.


Richard Gallon was very interested, but not as much when he realized I was in the U.S. - I still have one in my freezer, I tried to follow up with him but never heard back.

Maybe if we're nice enough Tom can post the shots that he took from ATS - since I never got to see them. (wink-wink) 4-5 months after AZ she molted .. so I'd love to post recent pictures so we can do a before an after.


My concern with your specimens Scolopeon is that Leg IV is super thick and it seems more light brown.

 

[Scolopeon]

I didn't directly get them imported - but I have " a guy " that brings in all kinds of wacky stuff from Africa. The Afrikans work hard to get the "best snakes", even over threat of violence.

"My guy" called me and said "I've got some wacky stuff I've never seen before" - He knew I wanted them - I picked up specimens at two different times and then one of his Afrikans was murdered.

So their "collecting territories" are most likely controversial. There are good odds they won't come back around until someone gets the balls to go back where they were at.

Scolopeon - Don't sweat Tom, he's busting your balls because he can. He can also back it up too so you've got to give it to him. He spent some time shooting my Baboons in Arizona.


Richard Gallon was very interested, but not as much when he realized I was in the U.S. - I still have one in my freezer, I tried to follow up with him but never heard back.

Maybe if we're nice enough Tom can post the shots that he took from ATS - since I never got to see them. (wink-wink) 4-5 months after AZ she molted .. so I'd love to post recent pictures so we can do a before an after.


My concern with your specimens Scolopeon is that Leg IV is super thick and it seems more light brown.

Are you refering to the KB underneath it, only pic 1 is my sp. Nigeria.

This is why you cannot judge pictures, leg IV is rake thin, i'll get you another shot, yes it is brown you are correct.
The males of this sp look very diff from yours too, and they also never get thickened legs.

Are you refering to the KB underneath it, only pic 1 is my sp. Nigeria.

This is why you cannot judge pictures, leg IV is rake thin, i'll get you another shot, yes it is brown you are correct.
The males of this sp look very diff from yours too, and they also never get thickened legs.

Your largest sp, reminds me of Phoneyusa, check out this picture with the golden bands you mentioned.

 

[arachnidsrva]

Now what is this? Is this a Phoneyusa ?

This looks very similar almost identical to what I have

What do you think Tom ?

 

[Scolopeon]

Mine is some type of Hysterocrates from Nigeria and yours deff looks different, those thick leg IV pics are my King Baboon, maybe putting KB for comparison was too sparse.
What really impressed me was the measurements you gave on the carapace, 43mm x 35 or something was it? That is a good chunk larger than this one.

Why do you think I want one of yours haha.

I believe Mr Gallon himself was saying how Phoneyusa Belandana is considerably more impressive than H. Hercules.

This specimen I have has pair I as the thickest, pair II, III and IV are equal in width.
It is also very leggy for the size, with a scrawny looking abdomen even after eating a whole chick, still looks oblong and scrawny.

 

[arachnidsrva]

Scolopeon you have me excited all over again. I can't wait til Brett jumps on this thread.

43mm x 35 was her carapace size. I haven't flooded her out since the molt - which is really exciting.

 

[Scolopeon]

Haha you need to get me one of those specimens, even if it is costly... Those dimensions are larger than most blondi.. Hopefully you have some luck getting some more.

In regards to my sp. Nigeria, I don't think R. Gallon knows what they are, the rumour on Uk sites is this may be hercules.

 

[arachnidsrva]

i'll get her out tomorrow if I have time and I'll try and mic her and get a shot of it