Huge abdomens, can’t feed them for months on end

[001357]

Weird issue. I’ve had this group of Ts for almost 4 years and the only one that seems “normal” to me is the GBB. The others (including aphonopelmas, brachypelmas, even kochiana brunnipes) don’t eat.

Or, it’s not so much that they don’t eat but that their abdomens stay huge for months and months – huge like disproportionate, like they’d pop if they ate something.

I know the common advice is to offer food once a week, and I see people saying that their Ts actually can eat that often! But I end up feeding my gals very sparingly because their abdomens are just too big. Like, some of them are 2” and they look like they just ate a grape. For months.

Factors that may be contributing to this:

• For about a year, they’ve been kept in mostly darkness (due to needing to keep them away from a curious cat and don’t yet have a cat-proofed display for them
• … that’s kind of it, I can’t think of anything else

What am I doing wrong, if anything? Am I mistreating my gals?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

You have to reconsider what normal is for a tarantula. This is probably the most difficult aspect of a spider’s biology for people to wrap their heads around. Tarantulas don’t need to eat very often at all. It is not unusual for a tarantula to go weeks, months, or even a year without eating. Their metabolisms are so slow that compared to a more traditional pet such as a cat or dog, tarantulas are barely alive. Combined with the human mindset that food is love, keeping a tarantula can be confusing and stressful since they thrive best on neglect.

In summary, stop feeding your tarantulas. They don’t need anymore food.

 

[Andrew Clayton]

Weird issue. I’ve had this group of Ts for almost 4 years and the only one that seems “normal” to me is the GBB. The others (including aphonopelmas, brachypelmas, even kochiana brunnipes) don’t eat.

Or, it’s not so much that they don’t eat but that their abdomens stay huge for months and months – huge like disproportionate, like they’d pop if they ate something.

I know the common advice is to offer food once a week, and I see people saying that their Ts actually can eat that often! But I end up feeding my gals very sparingly because their abdomens are just too big. Like, some of them are 2” and they look like they just ate a grape. For months.

Factors that may be contributing to this:

• For about a year, they’ve been kept in mostly darkness (due to needing to keep them away from a curious cat and don’t yet have a cat-proofed display for them
• … that’s kind of it, I can’t think of anything else

What am I doing wrong, if anything? Am I mistreating my gals?

Don't feed on a schedule, feed accordingly to abdomen size, if you overfeed its going to carry that through the next moult, then you feed again and it repeats the cycle. Sounds to me like you're drastically overfeeding. I have an LP that hasn't ate in nearly 3 months now as it's fat, I'm waiting on a moult, it will not get fed again until it moults purely because of this.

Also if you can notice a T loosing mass over time that generally means there is an issue, there metabolism is that slow that you should not be able to notice them loosing any mass, unless they moult.

Photos of you're T's, what the species are and setups will help, just incase there is anything off in you're husbandry. Highly doubt it though definitely just sounds like overfed T's


Edit;
Have a read here, this was spoke about recently.

Why can't I feed them more often?

I'm wondering why I have to restrict feeding my T's? I've read where it's not good if they get fat...but really what is fat for a T? In nature they would they eat anything they could catch I would think. Then they would refuse them when they were full. Explain to me why this thinking is...

arachnoboards.com

 

[l4nsky]

Got enclosure pics?

 

[001357]

Thanks guys – this confirms what I was thinking. I was just getting concerned since I see others talking about how frequently their Ts eat, or at least how often they offer food. My GBB is the only one who regularly eats without getting massive, and I felt neglectful for not feeding the others, too.

It did take my A. chalcodes over a year to eat and she hasn’t eaten more than twice since (and still hasn’t molted in nearly 4 years, but she’s aphonopelma, so…).

I can upload some pictures later, but a couple of them are overdue for an enclosure upgrade anyway.

Really appreciate it!

 

[viper69]

feed accordingly to abdomen size

That’s what everyone should do

 

[scottyk]

• For about a year, they’ve been kept in mostly darkness (due to needing to keep them away from a curious cat

I would suspect that tarantulas, as simple as they are, are capable of taking certain environmental cues that effect behavior patterns. Most get to see some sort of light cycle, and with all but equatorial species, there is going to be a seasonal variation in daylight hours

If I had my collection hidden away in darkness (depending on what you meant by "mostly") I would put a low watt, low heat simple LED light in that cabinet and give them a 12 hour day/night cycle....

As with so many things in this hobby there is not extensive, tarantula specific research available on this subject, but extended darkness can certainly cue some animals to hibernate/brumate/etc.

If I had to guess at what I would see in a tarantula being artificially encouraged to do this, fattening themselves up, going sedentary and/or manipulating metabolic processes to conserve the weight gain and refusing food would be among my top answers as to what I might observe....

 

[cold blood]

I know the common advice is to offer food once a week,

Not common advice from experienced keepers.....anyone with experience will tell you what you see posted here over and over....and that's, don't feed ts on a schedule.

There is no feeding schedule that will correspond with the needs of a tarantula as their needs are not consistent by a long shot.

 

[Mustafa67]

Weird issue. I’ve had this group of Ts for almost 4 years and the only one that seems “normal” to me is the GBB. The others (including aphonopelmas, brachypelmas, even kochiana brunnipes) don’t eat.

Or, it’s not so much that they don’t eat but that their abdomens stay huge for months and months – huge like disproportionate, like they’d pop if they ate something.

I know the common advice is to offer food once a week, and I see people saying that their Ts actually can eat that often! But I end up feeding my gals very sparingly because their abdomens are just too big. Like, some of them are 2” and they look like they just ate a grape. For months.

Factors that may be contributing to this:

• For about a year, they’ve been kept in mostly darkness (due to needing to keep them away from a curious cat and don’t yet have a cat-proofed display for them
• … that’s kind of it, I can’t think of anything else

What am I doing wrong, if anything? Am I mistreating my gals?

That’s normal, those Ts fast a LONG time

Don’t feed anymore and keep the water dish full

 

[l4nsky]

Not common advice from experienced keepers.....anyone with experience will tell you what you see posted here over and over....and that's, don't feed ts on a schedule.

There is no feeding schedule that will correspond with the needs of a tarantula as their needs are not consistent by a long shot.

I think we need to differentiate here between a scheduled feeding and a scheduled feeding amount.

I do use a husbandry schedule, and yes most of my animals get fed weekly on specific days as I prefer smaller, constant meals to ensure proper hydration throughout the molt, avoiding long "premolt" times.

What I don't do is have a set amount for each feeding. The size or amount of feeders offered is tied to where they are in their molt cycles, with the first month being a heavier feed to recoup losses from molting, switching to a maintenance feed for the majority of a specimen's molt cycle (except paired females), and again switching to prekilled maintenance feed during the last few weeks of a predicted cycle. There will also usually be one or two water only weeks for adults during their yearly molt cycles.

I define maintenance feeding as a prey item less than or equal to the body length (NOT DLS) but greater than half the body length. Most specimens will eat one week and then molt the next, including my Aphonopelma.

 

[Scoot]

I think we need to differentiate here between a scheduled feeding and a scheduled feeding amount.

I do use a husbandry schedule, and yes most of my animals get fed weekly on specific days as I prefer smaller, constant meals to ensure proper hydration throughout the molt, avoiding long "premolt" times.

What I don't do is have a set amount for each feeding. The size or amount of feeders offered is tied to where they are in their molt cycles, with the first month being a heavier feed to recoup losses from molting, switching to a maintenance feed for the majority of a specimen's molt cycle (except paired females), and again switching to prekilled maintenance feed during the last few weeks of a predicted cycle. There will also usually be one or two water only weeks for adults during their yearly molt cycles.

I define maintenance feeding as a prey item less than or equal to the body length (NOT DLS) but greater than half the body length. Most specimens will eat one week and then molt the next, including my Aphonopelma.

Now this is an interesting and (slightly) contrary perspective to the accepted wisdom here.

I note reference to the size / amount of items offered, specifically in relation to moult cycles. I do like to vary these, purely because it feels more naturalistic, though I don't have a set schedule - albeit I have a tiny fraction of the number of Ts you keep!

The comment about the Aphonopelma is amazing to me, to be honest - how do you manage that?!

 

[kingshockey]

If you are feeding weekly stop and Keep a full water dish always. then starve them for 2 months or so then feed only 1 cricket or super worm then wait a month or 2 . again before feeding thats what I did to get my fat girls to lose that ghetto butt . It's a gradual loss but it worked for me

 

[l4nsky]

The comment about the Aphonopelma is amazing to me, to be honest - how do you manage that?!

Because there is a deep logical fallacy embedded in the hobby when it comes to the care of these animals that some of us are beginning to challenge.

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/keeping-aphonopelma-moist.372945/

An acquaintance summed it up best when he started to change their husbandry and noticed the results: "I think the average hobbyist is told 'super hardy, just keep them dry with a dish and don't overfeed' not realizing that they're built to WITHSTAND harsh conditions, not exist perpetually within them".

The American Southwest has a monsoonal moisture pattern. Aphonopelma ride out the harsh dry periods and absolutely flourish during the times of plenty. If you keep them closer to a Theraphosa spp while ensuring proper ventilation (keyword proper, most commercially available options lack the necessary ventilation patterns), they never have a reason to bunker down and enter torpor, which leads to a multi-year molt scenario. Overflowing the water bowl alone doesn't cut it.

Almost all of my WC adult females are on yearly molt cycles.

 

[cold blood]

I think we need to differentiate here between a scheduled feeding and a scheduled feeding amount.

I do use a husbandry schedule, and yes most of my animals get fed weekly on specific days as I prefer smaller, constant meals to ensure proper hydration throughout the molt, avoiding long "premolt" times.

What I don't do is have a set amount for each feeding. The size or amount of feeders offered is tied to where they are in their molt cycles, with the first month being a heavier feed to recoup losses from molting, switching to a maintenance feed for the majority of a specimen's molt cycle (except paired females), and again switching to prekilled maintenance feed during the last few weeks of a predicted cycle. There will also usually be one or two water only weeks for adults during their yearly molt cycles.

I define maintenance feeding as a prey item less than or equal to the body length (NOT DLS) but greater than half the body length. Most specimens will eat one week and then molt the next, including my Aphonopelma.

Neither frequency nor amount (prey size) are something that is a consistent or constant.

 

[l4nsky]

Neither frequency nor amount (prey size) are something that is a consistent or constant.

Neither is temperature or access to water, yet we see advantages to their care in captivity by making it so .

 

[cold blood]

Neither is temperature or access to water, yet we see advantages to their care in captivity by making it so .

Not remotely the same.

Although I do agree that bigger meals are advantageous after a molt and smaller meals make more sense at the back end....but there is zero need or advantage for any schedule.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Because there is a deep logical fallacy embedded in the hobby when it comes to the care of these animals that some of us are beginning to challenge.

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/keeping-aphonopelma-moist.372945/

An acquaintance summed it up best when he started to change their husbandry and noticed the results: "I think the average hobbyist is told 'super hardy, just keep them dry with a dish and don't overfeed' not realizing that they're built to WITHSTAND harsh conditions, not exist perpetually within them".

The American Southwest has a monsoonal moisture pattern. Aphonopelma ride out the harsh dry periods and absolutely flourish during the times of plenty. If you keep them closer to a Theraphosa spp while ensuring proper ventilation (keyword proper, most commercially available options lack the necessary ventilation patterns), they never have a reason to bunker down and enter torpor, which leads to a multi-year molt scenario. Overflowing the water bowl alone doesn't cut it.

Almost all of my WC adult females are on yearly molt cycles.

If there is a fallacy in the logic used for the care of tarantulas that needs to be challenged, it is thinking that any species should be kept in captivity at any extreme. I know I have written on this site many times that nothing should be kept too dry for too long, nor should anything be kept too wet for too long. There is no challenge to conventional wisdom if one just replaces one extreme with another. Sure, go ahead and flood the soil of an Aphonopelma chalcodes (for example), it will be uncomfortable for a while and I can guarantee that if it is setup properly you will see a preference for dry soil, but the added water will give them an opportunity to stay hydrated for longer. Same with a Theraphosa species. Let that soil dry out completely for a short while. It too will exhibit signs of discomfort, but it needs to experience that discomfort for a while so you don't create a stagnant bacteria ridden mess of an enclosure. But don't keep the soil of your Aphonopelma chalcodes damp as regularly as a Theraphosa stirmi would need. It will hate your guts for it.

 

[l4nsky]

Oh boy, a chance to discuss another logical fallacy tonight .

so you don't create a stagnant bacteria ridden mess of an enclosure.

So, I see that word getting thrown around a lot but I've yet to really find someone in the hobby with a perfect understanding of the concepts at first blush

In your own words, can you tell me exactly HOW a stagnant enclosure kills it's inhabitants? We all know it's bad and should be avoided at all costs, but I mean what's the actual mechanism of death for the animal?

EDIT: Also, please don't take my stance as a slight against those who paved the way. I'm well aware in niche hobbies like this, everyone stands on the shoulders of giants.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Oh boy, a chance to discuss another logical fallacy tonight .


So, I see that word getting thrown around a lot but I've yet to really find someone in the hobby with a perfect understanding of the concepts at first blush

In your own words, can you tell me exactly HOW a stagnant enclosure kills it's inhabitants? We all know it's bad and should be avoided at all costs, but I mean what's the actual mechanism of death for the animal?

Sorry, but I am going to have to rob you of your opportunity to discuss another logical fallacy tonight- as you put it- by choosing not to answer your question. As much as I enjoy reading your posts because they offer a different way of looking at things, your choice of phrasing in this instance leads me to believe you are baiting me to engage in a no-win argument where you have all the answers in your head already and anything I say will be wrong.

 

[l4nsky]

Sorry, but I am going to have to rob you of your opportunity to discuss another logical fallacy tonight- as you put it- by choosing not to answer your question. As much as I enjoy reading your posts because they offer a different way of looking at things, your choice of phrasing in this instance leads me to believe you are baiting me to engage in a no-win argument where you have all the answers in your head already and anything I say will be wrong.

Not my intent; however, I see how that can be perceived. My apologies. Knowledge is an unending adventure on the edge of uncertainty and I've found it's best to guide people step by step at their own pace. Step one, by necessity, is figuring out where to start.

We can take this to DM though as my intention is to educate, especially if you intend on replicating some of the growth experiments with your own A. mooreae .