How to: Build A Homemade Co2 Chamber

[Nerri1029]

this is a great write up. I may try this to chill out feeder rats for my royal python's. Sadly nether of them will take frozen feeders.

CO2 does NOT have the same effect on mammals.
This could be considered abuse, or definitely mistreatment of a warmblooded vertebrate.

The methods shown were intended only for invertebrates.

---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------

Awesome writeup, Nerri! I had trouble with the reaction of the fluids shooting through the tube & flooding the chamber where the patient sits...too much baking soda? I bought a soda stream instead. I found that equal doses of CO2 could have very different effects for different but closely related creatures(I was knocking out centipedes for sexing). Very unnerving when working with large specimens only to have terminal legs suddenly grasp a finger while you're trying to get a snapshot. Any speculation on why some things go under easily and others seem to resist?

Your photo methods in the writeup: is there an ideal working distance from the scope's eyepiece?

eyepieces (oculars) have diff focal lengths so I'll say "It depends" on your camera and the eyepiece.

 

[JC]

CO2 does NOT have the same effect on mammals.
This could be considered abuse, or definitely mistreatment of a warmblooded vertebrate.

The methods shown were intended only for invertebrates.

Actually, Nerri, that is the point. He intends to kill the mouse by CO2. Common practice in snake hobby to feed them to snakes. Only I don't know how fast/effective it will be on a mouse though. Should take it out faster than an invert.

 

[Nerri1029]

Actually, Nerri, that is the point. He intends to kill the mouse by CO2. Common practice in snake hobby to feed them to snakes. Only I don't know how fast/effective it will be on a mouse though. Should take it out faster than an invert.

That was not how I read it.
If he intended to kill/euthanize/dispatch/release from the mortal coil etc. then he should have said this. Instead he used "Chill out"

If he meant kill then mae coulpa.
If not, then I stand by my statement, better safe.

 

[JC]

That was not how I read it.
If he intended to kill/euthanize/dispatch/release from the mortal coil etc. then he should have said this. Instead he used "Chill out"

If he meant kill then mae coulpa.
If not, then I stand by my statement, better safe.

Yeah, by 'chill' he means sorta dazz them. Snakes like warm blood, but it is dangerous to feed them fully conscious animals.

 

[Bigboy]

Actually, Nerri, that is the point. He intends to kill the mouse by CO2. Common practice in snake hobby to feed them to snakes. Only I don't know how fast/effective it will be on a mouse though. Should take it out faster than an invert.

CO2 kill chambers for rodents are very quick acting and humane. Mammals are designed to recognize increased levels of CO2 in their bloodstream as suffocation. Thus when you hold your breath your lungs begin to burn and if something is preventing you from breathing you panic.

a CO2 kill chamber floods the space the rodent is in with CO2. It continues to breathe but their is not enough oxygen to support life. Lungs actively release CO2 and take in Oxygen, not the other way around. Therefore the animals blood CO2 levels never reach a point to trigger a suffocation reaction. The animal passes out and dies. They just lay down go to sleep and never wake up. If you're really interested I can get you some do it yourself designs for such chambers. You would be shocked by how simple and effective they are for euthanizing rodent feeders.

 

[sjl197]

Hi All,

Some nice comments.

Just want to come back to Kirk, and say i especially like this setup for exotic places where CO2 in canisters aren't easily transported to, or where dry ice isnt available. Yes, when a local source of dry ice is available, that's a very good idea... just remember to store it packed tight in a box which is sealed very tightly from outside air, then store frozen. Else you end up with an empty box of useless cool air like i once did.

Otherwise, yes the canisters from a soda stream machine can be a useful CO2 source, but airplanes dont like to transport those. I have used CO2 for knocking out spiders prior to putting electronic location tags (PIT tags) into the abdomen, for tracking the specimen and checking its exact identity. When we did a trial in the lab, we got CO2 from a plastic tube coming from the ceiling. I still have no idea where that CO2 came from.

regards

 

[HotPocket]

CO2 kill chambers for rodents are very quick acting and humane. Mammals are designed to recognize increased levels of CO2 in their bloodstream as suffocation. Thus when you hold your breath your lungs begin to burn and if something is preventing you from breathing you panic.

a CO2 kill chamber floods the space the rodent is in with CO2. It continues to breathe but their is not enough oxygen to support life. Lungs actively release CO2 and take in Oxygen, not the other way around. Therefore the animals blood CO2 levels never reach a point to trigger a suffocation reaction. The animal passes out and dies. They just lay down go to sleep and never wake up. If you're really interested I can get you some do it yourself designs for such chambers. You would be shocked by how simple and effective they are for euthanizing rodent feeders.

Ya if you can pm me some designs. I would greatly appreciated it. I would be trying to not quite kill them but if i could get them in a state were they are dazed it would be much safer for the snake. And i believe much more humane for the rodents than feeding them off fully aware. I have been looking for a way to do this for quite a while.

---------- Post added at 02:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------

CO2 does NOT have the same effect on mammals.
This could be considered abuse, or definitely mistreatment of a warmblooded vertebrate.

The methods shown were intended only for invertebrates.

I am sorry if you look at this as abuse but I think it would be much better than the practice of "thunking" Which is were the rodent is put in a paper bag and slammed on a counter top to knock them out. That I think is animal abuse and have never even considered doing. But every time i ask for a way to daze feeders that seems to be the response i get. I take great care to be as humane as possible to live feeders. I am also sorry for the casual way i word things I don't want to be misinterpreted but i am a pretty laid back person.

 

[Nerri1029]

I am sorry if you look at this as abuse but I think it would be much better than the practice of "thunking" Which is were the rodent is put in a paper bag and slammed on a counter top to knock them out. That I think is animal abuse and have never even considered doing. But every time i ask for a way to daze feeders that seems to be the response i get. I take great care to be as humane as possible to live feeders. I am also sorry for the casual way i word things I don't want to be misinterpreted but i am a pretty laid back person.

I am not a snake person, and I am not in the least bit squeamish, or am I the kind of person to make an issue. My comment was precautionary that someone else might interpret it that way.

I had a tokay gecko that would eat hoppers, and yes I would "thunk" them.
I have euthanized a kitten, a canary, and several mice. I have little issue with death, esp if it fits the natural order.

 

[BrynWilliams]

Nerri, I read through your (rather good) presentation that you put a link up for and I had a question.

Do you use any consistent 'markers' for when the T is safely 'anaesthetised'. Someone else mentioned using when the spinarettes are down/limp. Or is it more a case of gas it until it stops moving?

I ask because i'm very interested in attempting this method to box up a few specimens that are speed queens and love running.

Cheers

Bryn

 

[Nerri1029]

Nerri, I read through your (rather good) presentation that you put a link up for and I had a question.

Do you use any consistent 'markers' for when the T is safely 'anaesthetised'. Someone else mentioned using when the spinarettes are down/limp. Or is it more a case of gas it until it stops moving?

I ask because i'm very interested in attempting this method to box up a few specimens that are speed queens and love running.

Cheers

Bryn

I go until there is no response.
I'd like to do a more quantitative study but .. no time.

 

[Bigboy]

CO2 euthanasia do it yourself. I won't repost here because it is not my information, but the links are available if you'd like to go to their source.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?55509-My-Feeder-Euthanizer-(DIY-CO2-chamber)

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?33850-Feeder-Euthanasia-the-Easy-Way-and-Humane-too...

 

[HotPocket]

big Boy you are the man! i cant believe i had never thought of this. thank you very much!

 

[bwd]

CO2 euthanasia do it yourself. I won't repost here because it is not my information, but the links are available if you'd like to go to their source.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?55509-My-Feeder-Euthanizer-(DIY-CO2-chamber)

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?33850-Feeder-Euthanasia-the-Easy-Way-and-Humane-too...

Just something those guides don't mention. Make sure you aren't just flooding the holding tank. Start with a slow supply of CO2 until the animals are unresponsive. It is then safe to flood the enclosure. If you add too much too quickly the animals start gasping for oxygen and in my opinion are suffering.