How long will an Avicularia Avicularia go without eating?

[CABIV]

The crew here reasonably assumes that a 3-inch A. avic from a pet store is going to be WC from Guyana. Tens of thousands of them leave Guyana each year and a few shipments have gone out recently. About two months ago I received 20 hand picked specimens, and the report I received was that many of those remaining weren’t in good shape. Of those that arrived, about 4 were brown, the color of yours, the rest blue. The brown ones molted within a month or two of arrival and are now blue. Some of the early molters didn’t make it much past molt, despite available water, perhaps the most important element for a spider peri-molt. All had abdomens about the size of yours (I mean your T’s), a fact of wild living . . . none of them having found that unlucky bird I guess. I agree yours seems to be entering premolt, whether or not its condition is optimal. As mentioned above, transition to captivity is key, and it’s more important now to try to mimic Guyana’s environment than at any other time in its future. That your T made it a month bodes well, but no guarantees, particularly because of the WC situation. Minimal disturbance, better temp/humidity control, and close observation as you are doing will hopefully get it through the next few weeks. I second the no-touching suggestion as the molt phase is high risk. Good luck and please drop a follow-up note.

I've been careful now to not disturb it. I'm still working out how to get the temperature and humidity right without resorting to anything expensive and unnecessary. I've been busy and have been unable to clear a spot for it in my room. The humidity has not been stable in there since I removed the damp substrate. I observed it going from the upper 60%s to the mid 70%s and back in the course of a few hours. I already have two water dishes in there, I might need a third (or replace one with a much bigger one).

I am concerned with vermin and other infections and I can see the way the cage was originally set up would be a breeding ground for it.

It seems to have taken up residence in a cardboard toilet paper tube I put near the top of the tank, and has webbed both ends thinly. It definitely comes out (I can see that the web has been disturbed where I presume it climbed out.

I recognize that if the cardboard tube gets wet it could be a problem, but it already moved in. Fortunately, its not super solidly mounted, so if necessary, I can lift it out. I don't anticipate having to do that though, since i've been keeping the cage surfaces dry.

---------- Post added 09-24-2014 at 02:24 PM ----------

It doesn't have a fat abdomen, so it probably isn't premolt. It should be eating. The proper set up for Avics is dry substrate and a water bowl, with cross ventilation. I don't like screen tops as cold and hot drafts can blow in them, plus they're more susceptible to fumes and smoke. The wood looks good, but it should have some plastic plants so it's not so exposed, that also encourages spinning.

Why are you handling it? That adds to it's stress It needs to adjust to it's new surroundings and Godzilla keeps picking it up.

I've been able to keep the tarantula away from sources of fumes and smoke, but I can see why it would be vulnerable. I'll have to figure it out.

As far as handling it, I've only had to handle it to move it to "safe" areas. The way my tank was originally set up, it was very difficult to reach the bottom without moving things around, and sometimes the tarantula would be sitting in between "A log and a hard place", so rather than risk hurting it, I would try to nudge it gently to a spot where there was less of a risk of it being more rudely bumped.

Your temps are too cool for a wild caught spider that just came from the tropics. That's part of the problem, on top of all the other adjustments it has to make.

Last month I helped a local dealer unpack 400 Avic Avics from Guyana, and some looked like yours with dull colors. Yours probably needs to molt, but first it needs food and water to plump up.

That seems to be the pattern of responses here, I had been able to maintain it in the 80s earlier, and it seems now that the fall is starting to set in, that the temperature are going down with it. I'm VERY hesitant to use heating pads, and lamps seem to be also unacceptable. Again, my room seems to be the best place since the sun shines on it all day (there are "dim" areas that the tarantula would be safe from direct sunlight), so it generally stays warmer than the rest of the house, 80% of the time.

Are there any alternative recommendations?



For reference, this is the tank it is in, but it is NO LONGER set up in this fashion. I removed the live plants, and greatly reduced the substrate. I will post an updated photo when I get home.

 

[Steve123]

Humidity in an enclosure is a compromise between temperature, available water, and ventilation. You mentioned the type of lid, which enhances ventilation, but it also allows water vapor and heat to escape. Reducing the surface area would work in your favor, but reduce only enough to maintain target humidity and temperature. As temperature rises, humidity will increase proportionally. Keeping the paper tube dry seems a good compromise for now. Having webbed itself in, it is likely getting ready to molt. Sick Ts don’t do much construction. I’d venture to guess your T is doing everything normally.

After this issue is over, consider searching the boards for a more suitable set up for arboreal Ts, with better ventilation options. Lots of good advice in the stickies and posts; doesn’t have to be expensive or pretty, just work. Lots of reasonable heating options too, but they all involve electricity or room heating. Others may have good specific suggestions.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here..

Spider biology. The urticating hairs don't grow in the same way mammalian hair does. They have "x" amount each molt, and when they are gone, they are gone til the next molt. If it appears hairs are "growing back", this is due to remaining hairs becoming partially dislodged and covering the abdomen. (This also leads to a number of posts about people thinking their spiders have "fungal infections".)

 

[DrJ]

Spider biology. The urticating hairs don't grow in the same way mammalian hair does. They have "x" amount each molt, and when they are gone, they are gone til the next molt. If it appears hairs are "growing back", this is due to remaining hairs becoming partially dislodged and covering the abdomen. (This also leads to a number of posts about people thinking their spiders have "fungal infections".)

Yes. This.

And...wow. I thought we were discussing how an Avic can seemingly go eons without eating. lol.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

And...wow. I thought we were discussing how an Avic can seemingly go eons without eating. lol.

Topics are like pirate rules. They're more like guidelines. Lol

 

[DrJ]

Topics are like pirate rules. They're more like guidelines. Lol

I see I see...I think we had our own hijacking fun the other day. Haha. Oh, well. I wasn't having the best day that day anyway, as you may have discerned. Glad we're still good, though. Sorry to have taken it out on you.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

Crap happens, man. We're all passionate and smartasses here - it's usually all in good fun and for the love of our animals.

 

[Poec54]

I get that it's frustrating, and some of that does need to change. Still though, I wouldn't let it bother you. I've been in the same boat and been talked down to by many of the more experienced members in the past. The problem is that many of the experienced keepers feel the need to be blunt and not "sugarcoat" things (you'll see that word a lot around here), and while they have good intentions for the hobby, I think many of them don't realize it often does the opposite effect and drives people away from the hobby. Personally, I try not to pick sides and to stay towards the middle of the spectrum. It really goes both ways.

Save your apologies for someone who deserves them. He's one of the most combative and know-it-all people we've had in a while. He came out of the starting gate taking swings at members. We don't need people like him in the hobby. He's nothing but trouble.

 

[cold blood]

Back to the op...You shouldn't be worrying like you are about number specific humidity, this causes more problems than it solves. Your water dish(s) will provide more than ample humidity, and looking at an unreliable hygrometer is doing nothing but infusing worry where there should be none. Just get rid of it. The sole reason your set-up isn't maintaining humidity IMO is that you have a full screen top. This takes away from the micro-climate you are trying to achieve. I would cover the middle and leave room on the sides. This will reduce the water loss in the air as well as stimulating airflow from the sides. A better enclosure that has side ventilation would be ideal, cross ventilation is much more important than top ventilation, especially with Avics. Good luck and I hope this helps.

 

[BobGrill]

Save your apologies for someone who deserves them. He's one of the most combative and know-it-all people we've had in a while. He came out of the starting gate taking swings at members. We don't need people like him in the hobby. He's nothing but trouble.

Yeah I see that now.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

Save your apologies for someone who deserves them. He's one of the most combative and know-it-all people we've had in a while. He came out of the starting gate taking swings at members. We don't need people like him in the hobby. He's nothing but trouble.

Abrasive, certainly. But he had an inquiry that is a *huge* part of the hobby in my mind - a desire to understand spider biology. Far too few hobbyists, IMHO, give any thought to this aspect of care. That is why I offered up two books that, in my mind, need to be on any serious hobbyist's shelf if your interest in these wonderful creatures goes beyond "I like blue spiders! ".

 

[Poec54]

Abrasive, certainly. But he had an inquiry that is a *huge* part of the hobby in my mind - a desire to understand spider biology. Far too few hobbyists, IMHO, give any thought to this aspect of care. That is why I offered up two books that, in my mind, need to be on any serious hobbyist's shelf if your interest in these wonderful creatures goes beyond "I like blue spiders! ".

He's definitely a smart guy, could be a benefit to the hobby, but his attitude was so bad in the few posts he made, he's just going to be losing his temper and making personal insults more often than anything else. Maybe he's a 'temperamental genius', but if he can't get along with people, then a chat room is not the place for him. Good riddance.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

Oh, i agree thin skin and chat rooms don't mix. But I think if he takes a look at his replies and comes back a bit less confrontational, he can be a major asset. Up to him, really.

 

[Poec54]

Oh, i agree thin skin and chat rooms don't mix. But I think if he takes a look at his replies and comes back a bit less confrontational, he can be a major asset. Up to him, really.

Maybe he was having a bad day. If he came back with an apology and without a chip on his shoulder, I think we'd all give him a clean slate. However, based on what we've seen so far in a handful of pasts, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Blue spiders are HIGHLY overrated.

As far as behaviour goes, this :

"What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here.. "

speaks volumes. That's an example of some pretty poor reading comprehension. To my knowledge, prefacing a statement with "To my knowledge" is saying, "Look, I'm trying to be helpful, not suggesting that this is the final word on the topic, just what I have learned elsewhere or experienced, I hope this helps", and such an offering should be accepted with at least a modicum of gratitude. If the info provided is inaccurate or questionable, it can be gently refuted, it shouldn't be responded to with a reply dripping with sarcasm and contempt.

Now back to the original topic in which the discussion was about...uh...hold on, I got this...um....something about some kind of spider, I think...ah, the G. rosea not eating and flipping over on its back and whether or not it is dead, right?

Er, sorry. You know what they say (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) "You can take the boy out of the Watering Hole, but you can't take the Watering Hole out of the boy."

 

[BobGrill]

It's impossible for blue spiders to be overrated.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Yeah, you are right. I'm just bitter. No matter how long I keep them in an airtight container, mine NEVER turn blue. I can't figure out how people manage it.

 

[BobGrill]

That's the great thing about tarantulas rigt? You'll always find at least one that looks appealing to you.

 

[Fyrwulf]

Yeah, you are right. I'm just bitter. No matter how long I keep them in an airtight container, mine NEVER turn blue. I can't figure out how people manage it.

LOL. A. uticans is where it's at if you want one that won't make a credible attempt at killing you.

 

[CABIV]

I figured I'd update this a little.

Due to damage to the original tank's lid, I decided to just move it to a new tank, rather than try and repair the screen (which seems to be deteriorating of old age, this tank was very old).

Prior to using transferring the tarantula to the new tank, I noticed that the two small water dishes did not seem to be generating enough humidity, even when covered. Though the hygrometers maybe notoriously innaccurate, i doubt that they are off significantly, and I was getting readings in between 47% and 55%. The tarantula did not seem happy like this either, it had not left the cardboard tube except once or twice ( I assume, I never saw it leave, only the silk was disturbed) in a period of three weeks. During this time it appeared to refuse food.

The tarantula is now housed in a vertically oriented 12"x12"X18" (WxDxH) Exo-Terra tank. I layered the bottom with hygroballs and some water, then covered most of it with coconut coir, making sure the water and the coconut choir didn't come in contact. Even this didn't seem to improve the humidity, so I covered half the top with plastic wrap, though I'm considering removing this to let it dry out some more in there. After all, if this hygrometer isn't that accurate, I probably shouldn't rely on it. I work in the engineering department of a local university, perhaps they have some equipment I could try.

I'm happy that the tank is now showing an environment more in line with recommendations, but I am concerned that the humidity will attract mites and other pests.

I also transferred the water dishes to this tank, as well as the longer log from the old tank. I also bought a brand new fake plant that is very bushy and leafy, hoping this would offer a better hiding area than had been previously available.

I was able to fit the tank on my desk, and only a small sliver of the front face of the tank gets direct sunlight from the side during the afternoons. it is otherwise shielded by the hutch on my desk. My room is a little warmer but there are still cool periods. Still, I imagine this is consistent with the nightly cool downs in their native environment.

After initially moving the tarantula to the new tank, it appeared more active. I imagine it was only trying to explore its new home before going dormant again. However, other than a few days of it sitting in one place, it now seems more active. It has lightly webbed several corners of its tank, though not a complete structure, just a small pads and connections between leaves. I most frequently find it sitting on the leaves, or on the door of the tank.

In fact, one night it seemed terribly active, and even fell from high up a few times, once into the water dish (it made me very nervous since it was rock-like!), and during this time it did a significant amount of webbing all over the tank but with no obvious goal (it webbed across the face of the glass doors, in the lower left front corner, some leaves in the back right corner). I have no idea what it was doing, and I am not sure if that was a bad sign or just a weird night.

However, it continues to be fine to this day so far as I can tell, so I assume it wasn't hurt.


Curiously, it appears to be eating, but I have no solid proof. I placed a cricket in there, which I could hear and see moving around for a few nights, but then disappeared. I placed a second cricket in there, and it also disappeared after a few nights. To my knowledge, they did not escape, and the new cage is far more escape proof than the old one.

That said, I have not found either a body or a bolus to confirm this yet, but I don't want to disturb the tarantula by digging around in there.

I decided not to put the cardboard tube back in there with it. Instead, I might seek out a PVC pipe, or something that is a little more robust. In the meantime, the Tarantula seems to be hiding in the leaves quite well, and I'm hoping this is an adequate hide for the time being.

Here is a photo of the current set up. The tarantula can be seen on the center left-



The Tarantula doesn't seem any worse for wear either, and I haven't spotted anything to make me think it is sick. I am curious though, whether or not it really will molt soon. This thing excels at sending mixed signals.