Honesty in the selling

[Banana Braun]

I am not sure where this thread should belong so feel free to move it to a better place if need be.
This topic has been one which has bothered me for several years while getting into the tarantula keeping world. I'll cut to the chase. The buyer purchases an unsexed immature tarantula and is excited about the purchase and possibility of your new T molting out someday to be a female. Down the road you realize that people on the selling end, although they would never admit to it publicly, in many cases have a very good sense of which spiders will end up being a male vs a female. So feeling stupid and taken advantage of you swear off any purchases of any thing other than small slings and known females. I have learned this the hard way more than once even though I've tried to dance around the unsexed immature tarantulas. Never having owned a dwarf tarantula I ventured into purchase a of the harder to find Cyriocosmus ritae. I paid a healthy price for the unsexed immature ritae in February to come home today and find it molted out to be a mature male. As gorgeous as this boy is I can't help but again feel as though i've been duped. Is this yet another shame on me for not learning better or did someone sell off what to them was a probable male while being technically "unsexed"? I feel like it's hard to know who to trust out there even amongst big well known sellers. Does this make sense what I'm getting at? What are your thoughts on this?

 

[fcat]

Personally, I assume anything over 2” labeled as unsexed is a male. Pretty much any T can be sexed ventrally by that size. Be aware there are sellers that sex even smaller with a microscope…

There are exceptions I make, if I know it’s a really reclusive fossorial for example, or the seller has other males listed for sale.

My worst purchase was a moderately priced female, and “she” hooked out the next night. I just stopped buying Ts from that person. I don’t blame him (the owner of the store), I blame his practice of buying tarantulas his “customers” sell him. That included a “wild caught Aphonopelma from somewhere in the state of Arizona” that was your typical brown sling…I made a joke and said watch this be an LP….put it next to my existing LP and it proceeded to grow faster. Now I have two female LPs

I have made requests from sellers who sell unsexed but large enough to sex, only when I was hoping for a male, and they have accommodated.

The most expensive unsexed I bought was a premolt, burrowed 4” G pulchra. I literally bought it site unseen…it could’ve been anything but I’d rather light $200 on fire than disturb a potentially molting tarantula. She was indeed female…the seller said she never got a molt or ventral. I got lucky.

 

[Requiem4aSpleen]

If I started from scratch again, I'd only buy confirmed females. I enjoy raising slings, but once they mature male they take up space. Buying 3 slings of the same sp and having 2 mature out male sucks. There are some notorious vendors out there known for this. 2-3" unsexed (and a good price) I can guarantee you they're going to be male. Vendors are trying to get rid of their males

 

[Ratmosphere]

Very common, it's mostly why I almost always buy molt sexed spiders now.

 

[l4nsky]

Another point to consider is if the vendor does the reptile show routes or not. They might truly have started with unsexed specimens of a given size and are selling them as such, but those shopping in person may have whittled down the odds quite a bit.

I mean, you can't really tell a customer they can't inspect the available animals at the show prior to purchase. The vendors aren't there to run petting zoos, ya know?

 

[TheraMygale]

I bought a 2+ inch nhandu color at my dealer. It had molted not long ago, but molt was still with tarantula: so not sexed yet.

turns out its a female. Shes over 4 inches now, in less then a year. Maybe i lucked out.

i believe some dealers are honest. Especialy those who don’t need to hype sales.

doesnt mean i dont have males in my hoard. Pretty sure both my d pentaloris are male. I might invest more for certified females in the futur, if i can ever afford a new tarantula one day

i do think some sellers are very well aware of the sex. Because they have tools and expertise.

its 50/50 at that point. And the quality of your dealer makes a difference.

 

[cold blood]

I paid a healthy price for the unsexed immature ritae i

Red flag right there....an unsexed juvie should not have a healthy price, it should be priced as unsexed, which is more like closer to male pricing. Never pay female prices for an unsexed t. I know not all sellers selling unsexed ts know the sex, thats a disingenuous statement....I guarantee that personally, I have sold hundreds of unsexed ts over the years that have ended up to be females....and none carried a healthy price.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I got two juvys and a 2” sling from a pet shop I’m waiting too see how many are males. so far I’ve mostly gotten males that died of mystery causes and one female there so far who died because it couldn’t drink or eat.
I’ve gotten two 2”juvys or so unsexed online many years ago that ended up female but lost both to bad molts. I never kept track how many females I got total from over 2”juvys in the past unsexed. But I’d get males more often than females even if I buy .5” slings .

 

[kingshockey]

never had that issue or even felt like that if/when i buy any unsexed immature tarantulas i do it knowing its a 50/50 chance on either sex once it matures. just a roll of the dice if it turns out male i am usually able to trade it back to my dealers for a new sling during my next purchase

 

[Banana Braun]

Wow! Thank you for all the great input! I really appreciate the stories and feedback. I don't feel quite so alone on this and I guess I have learned some lessons too. I'll try and be much more picky about my purchases and be patient for those confirmed females. I've never before posted on the forum but have gained great insight from various posts over the last couple years. This community is a great resource and fun to read through. Thank you again for the feedback! I'm looking forward to finding at least 1good pick from a local show this weekend and now I'm feeling more prepared

 

[Wolfram1]

i agree with @fcat , i also assume that anything larger than 2" may have been sexed, or even smaller really

that said while i do not suspect anyone of maliciously selling sexed males as unsexed, i simply do not give anyone the chance to swindle me. I buy only the small slings that would simply be too difficult to sex and only ones whose price reflects that.

That way my odds are always ~50/50 and if i am sure that i do want a female, i simply buy 2 or 3 for less than a larger sexed female would have gone for.

That way i have a very high chance of getting the spider i want. Get to observe the results of my care on multible specimens simultaniously and can contribute any males back into a breeding project in the future.

 

[sparticus]

Pay attention to who you are buying from. If there's a pattern, note it in your head and make decisions accordingly. There are honest sellers out there, and there are less honest sellers. I prefer tiny slings because I enjoy raising them, which evens the playing field quite a bit. But know your sellers, and make decisions accordingly. And don't pay "female" prices for unsexed juvies. I would say if they only have one "unsexed" specimen of that species out for sale and it's over 2", probably a red flag.

 

[inquisitivechemist]

It honestly depends on the seller I have yet to feel duped. In fact, I'm batting above coin flip odds with 70 some females.

Now I have been to expos in which someone has bought a female tarantula from one table and asked another table to sex it. Only for it to be an obvious male.

So I stick to the popular online vendors that have a reputation to protect.

 

[HoneyOilers]

Red flag right there....an unsexed juvie should not have a healthy price, it should be priced as unsexed, which is more like closer to male pricing. Never pay female prices for an unsexed t. I know not all sellers selling unsexed ts know the sex, thats a disingenuous statement....I guarantee that personally, I have sold hundreds of unsexed ts over the years that have ended up to be females....and none carried a healthy price.

Out here there’s 1/4” Davus sp. Panama “Lava” going for 150$ if it’s particularly rare I find the sling prices can get crazy!

 

[viper69]

Never had this issue. I’ve only bought from very well known breeders or very honest breeders.

This good sense idea you have doesn’t hold much water.

Are some sellers selling known males as unsexed, absolutely IMO.

Out here there’s 1/4” Davus sp. Panama “Lava” going for 150$ if it’s particularly rare I find the sling prices can get crazy!

Used to be 35-50$ too. They aren’t worth 150$.

 

[TheraMygale]

Red flag right there....an unsexed juvie should not have a healthy price, it should be priced as unsexed, which is more like closer to male pricing. Never pay female prices for an unsexed t. I know not all sellers selling unsexed ts know the sex, thats a disingenuous statement....I guarantee that personally, I have sold hundreds of unsexed ts over the years that have ended up to be females....and none carried a healthy price.

this here is important.

unsexed, when 2 inches and under, should be a reasonable price. However, some slings have high prices because of the availability, shipping/import/, type… take T seladonia. You will be charged over 300$ for something tiny. Its because of the type of tarantula.

if you were charged 100$ for a 3/4” g pulchripes (depending on where you live), id be suspicious. It pays to know you tarantulas, and the market in your area.

i am in Canada. We don’t have hundreds of dealers. Its easy to find one that has been around long and proven themselves. With excellent credentials, and even being consulted for breeding and conservation expertise. You could always look them up, to look at their prices. Even if CAD$, it helps getting an idea of the prices you should be expecting.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

I am not sure where this thread should belong so feel free to move it to a better place if need be.
This topic has been one which has bothered me for several years while getting into the tarantula keeping world. I'll cut to the chase. The buyer purchases an unsexed immature tarantula and is excited about the purchase and possibility of your new T molting out someday to be a female. Down the road you realize that people on the selling end, although they would never admit to it publicly, in many cases have a very good sense of which spiders will end up being a male vs a female. So feeling stupid and taken advantage of you swear off any purchases of any thing other than small slings and known females. I have learned this the hard way more than once even though I've tried to dance around the unsexed immature tarantulas. Never having owned a dwarf tarantula I ventured into purchase a of the harder to find Cyriocosmus ritae. I paid a healthy price for the unsexed immature ritae in February to come home today and find it molted out to be a mature male. As gorgeous as this boy is I can't help but again feel as though i've been duped. Is this yet another shame on me for not learning better or did someone sell off what to them was a probable male while being technically "unsexed"? I feel like it's hard to know who to trust out there even amongst big well known sellers. Does this make sense what I'm getting at? What are your thoughts on this?

I have known this for quite some time.

While I can confidently say not all sellers practice passing off males as unsexed juveniles for sale some do unfortunately. Beware of exotic shows and craiglist ads.

I took a chance buying from a private seller passing off a 3.5 inch A. chalcodes as a female from craigslist in the past. Next molt in my care BAM! mature male. I thought I got a good price at $60 for a female.

However instead of getting all worked up over it I actually enjoyed that chalcodes very much. Before it matured he had a most enjoyable personality. After maturing he lived on for a few years so it wasn't a loss.

The only problem with winding up with a male is what you pay in cost. Otherwise there's nothing wrong in having a male tarantula. I enjoy them just as much as the females and if cared for properly a mature male can live on for 1 to 5 years.

Without males we do not get slings. So if an unsexed juvenile is priced the same as a sling then buy it.

 

[Liquifin]

As a tarantula breeder, private breeder, wholesaler, and ex. business (temporarily withdrawn). Anything sold as unsexed should be taken in as a "male". Even if the seller, breeder, or vendor is reputable or honest, all "unsexed" species should be considered as male. This isn't to say anyone is scamming or deceiving, but rather to prepare for the worst for those people wanting female specimens. Not trying to say everyone has good intentions selling unsexed T.'s, because some people can be just greedy. But I would honestly recommend people to buy sexed females if you truly want one instead of buying an unsexed specimen to be safe.

My rule of thumb is that always buy multiples of slings or juveniles, but that's really because I want breeding groups as a breeder. But it does have benefits of getting better chances for females and future breeding projects. I always have to acquire a minimum of at least 5 slings when buying in groups. But that's just me.

Also, off topic, but prices these days are extremely inflated and all over the place. So know the market well before inquiring to buy any T.

 

[Mustafa67]

I am not sure where this thread should belong so feel free to move it to a better place if need be.
This topic has been one which has bothered me for several years while getting into the tarantula keeping world. I'll cut to the chase. The buyer purchases an unsexed immature tarantula and is excited about the purchase and possibility of your new T molting out someday to be a female. Down the road you realize that people on the selling end, although they would never admit to it publicly, in many cases have a very good sense of which spiders will end up being a male vs a female. So feeling stupid and taken advantage of you swear off any purchases of any thing other than small slings and known females. I have learned this the hard way more than once even though I've tried to dance around the unsexed immature tarantulas. Never having owned a dwarf tarantula I ventured into purchase a of the harder to find Cyriocosmus ritae. I paid a healthy price for the unsexed immature ritae in February to come home today and find it molted out to be a mature male. As gorgeous as this boy is I can't help but again feel as though i've been duped. Is this yet another shame on me for not learning better or did someone sell off what to them was a probable male while being technically "unsexed"? I feel like it's hard to know who to trust out there even amongst big well known sellers. Does this make sense what I'm getting at? What are your thoughts on this?

I only buy confirmed females by molt, I don’t trust “unsexed” they usually turn out to be males

 

[Arachnophobphile]

I wanted a female Aphonopelma moderatum so I bought a 2.5 inch confirmed female. Also paid under $100 from a well known seller/breeder, couldn't be happier. In a few years I'll be hunting for a male moderatum.

The other tarantulas bought in the past it didn't matter if they turned out male or female. In all honesty out of all the slings I've bought seems I get a 50/50 ratio male/female.