history of tarantula keeping?

[handfulofspiders]

saw a thread that was pulled up from 20 years ago! had no idea AB was around for that long, so i got to thinking, what was the hobby like back then? where did you get your information from? how did you figure out what was and wasn’t working? like sponges in water dishes, mulch substrate, 1.5x DLS lid to sub space rule etc.

and what was it like seeing the hobby expand so much?

 

[Gator Watson]

This is a great question in my eyes! Im excited to see the answers. I dont know how much/if the hobby can expand at all, but I am hoping to see an increase of T specific businesses with enclosures, substrate, decertations, etc.

 

[TechnoGeek]

I wasn't in the hobby 20 years ago, but think way fewer species to pick from, and less clear proper husbandry.

On the plus side, Ts were probably significantly cheaper as wild caught specimens were all over the place and demand was way less due to a smaller community.

 

[Jesse607]

I am happy to see AB is still around, it's quite amazing really. Before AB I got my information from the few books that were around, like The Tarantula Keeper's Guide by Schultz. There were a few websites that had some information and there were already online shops by then as well. We already knew by then that sponges were not the way to go. I honestly don't believe things were that different then. You would think that with information easier than ever to access, that people wouldn't be making the same mistakes, and asking the same questions, but sure enough they do. Back then it seemed like people tried to do their own research first before asking questions...now we have countless people asking the same basic questions daily.

My favorite thing from back when I first started was how we thought P. muticus (C. crawshayi back then) needed deep bone dry substrate, and that they were slow growers that stay buried in their deep closed up burrows living a subterranean lifestyle. Now we realize that they respond to drought/dry season that way, and that by keeping them on/in moist substrate, they grow much faster and are much more active and come to the surface of their open burrows to find prey. In the wild they are most active during the rainy season, imagine that. Unfortunately some of that old bad information is still floating around.

 

[Introvertebrate]

As a kid in the '70s, all I ever saw in pet stores were wild caught Chilean Rosehairs. They seemed like the world's most boring pets.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

What was the hobby like back then?

Not counting the one or two tarantulas I had when I was a kid in the late 1980s to the 1990s, my entrance to tarantula keeping started in about 2001 and as @Jesse607 stated, it wasn't really that much different than it is today. People back then were asking the same questions as they do today, arguments over humidity and the type of soil to use as a substrate are the same, sellers come and go today as they did back then, and so on. The only difference is the platform in which such discussions take place. Today sharing information is all about YouTube and Facebook apparently, but 20 years ago it was Yahoo! Groups, message board web sites, and paper journals.

Where did you get your information from?

Back at the start of the 2000s, most of my information came from books, web sites, the publications of the American Tarantula Society and British Tarantula Society, a few message board sites like this one, and a whole lot of trial and error. Shout out to PetBugs.com!

How did you figure out what was and wasn’t working? like sponges in water dishes, mulch substrate, 1.5x DLS lid to sub space rule etc.

It was easy. If my tarantulas were eating, drinking, growing, and exhibiting normal tarantula behavior then it was working. The tricky part was figuring out what "normal tarantula behavior" was. If my tarantula that was supposed to be fossorial in nature was climbing the sides of its cage, or a species that was arboreal was resting on the floor, something was wrong. With trial and error using different soils and cage configurations from all of the available sources of information, I started noticing changes in how my tarantulas were behaving and started acting more like how they were being described from what little published observations of them in the wild.

From the experience of trial and error, it became apparent that tarantulas can adapt and live quite easily in a number of different conditions and that most rules, like the "1.5x DLS lid to substrate" were completely arbitrary. What amuses me is that a lot of tarantula care repeated today is the same thing that was repeated 20+ years ago!

What was it like seeing the hobby expand so much?

The tarantula keeping hobby has definitely expanded in the past 20 years in the sense that there are more species available for sale, and more people buying and keeping them. I don't consider this a good thing because the pet keeping community is expanding faster than scientific research. Tarantulas are mysterious creatures because so little is known about their natural history, and being mygalomorphs, are very difficult to identify with any accuracy if at all. When people buy and sell tarantulas one always has to have the thought in the back of their mind that there really are no true experts in the tarantula keeping community and what information is provided may very well be very wrong.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

saw a thread that was pulled up from 20 years ago! had no idea AB was around for that long, so i got to thinking, what was the hobby like back then? where did you get your information from? how did you figure out what was and wasn’t working? like sponges in water dishes, mulch substrate, 1.5x DLS lid to sub space rule etc.

and what was it like seeing the hobby expand so much?

Think I got my first t around 20 years ago and it didn’t end well because I didn’t know avics needed higher moisture levels . Later I figured it out and fixed it , but currently don’t have any aboreals .
As much as people dislike g rosea as a pet rock that’s probably my favorite, I got
One when I was 14-15 and just lost it a years ago got stuck in its molt . It made a burrow so I couldn’t rescue it or try and remove the stuck skin . I’m definitely getting more Grammys at some point .
I used to use rob c tarantula site til I lost user info and stuff , not sure if it’s still up. Came here instead, shame rob c left the hobby I think he was so entertaining.
Loads of species were available back then unlike what people are saying. Ofc the scientific names keep changing . Maybe more today but more spread out So it’s pretty equal . Prices really shot up so I don’t know if there’s less breeders then back then or less supply .

 

[Arachnophobphile]

As a kid in the '70s, all I ever saw in pet stores were wild caught Chilean Rosehairs. They seemed like the world's most boring pets.

I remember those days......

If a pet store had any T's it usually was only one. The ones I've always ran into were B. smithi or hamorii. I don't know exactly I only remember the orange on the legs like a smithi. They were always in a 10 gallon aquarium with a little dirt. Can't remember if any type of hide was given.

Early 90's a local aquarium shop got in a T. blondi. This one I distinctly remember. 10 gallon aquarium, less than an inch of substrate, (looked like dirt) and no hide no nothing.

That blondi was smaller and female as the shop owner told me. It was roughly 4 to 5 inches dls. She told me a guy she knows owned her and when he was handling her, (yes you read that right) that blondi bit him. This is why it was in the shop for sale.

 

[viper69]

saw a thread that was pulled up from 20 years ago! had no idea AB was around for that long, so i got to thinking, what was the hobby like back then? where did you get your information from? how did you figure out what was and wasn’t working? like sponges in water dishes, mulch substrate, 1.5x DLS lid to sub space rule etc.

and what was it like seeing the hobby expand so much?

20 yrs ? Nothing is different at all- just more species and much higher prices for “reasons unknown” in most cases, ie greed
The other bad thing is more people are into the hobby and most have not a clue what to do, they sit there, watch stupidTube and pick up bad info and bad habits from all over the net.
That wasn’t so much an issue back then.

like the "1.5x DLS lid to substrate" were completely arbitrary

Completely arbitrary- What do you mean here?

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

20 yrs ? Nothing is different at all- just more species and much higher prices for “reasons unknown” in most cases, ie greed
The other bad thing is more people are into the hobby and most have not a clue what to do, they sit there, watch stupidTube and pick up bad info and bad habits from all over the net.
That wasn’t so much an issue back then.



Completely arbitrary- What do you mean here?

Guess I must had missed that rule haha ,
“1.5x DLS lid to sub space rule “
More less so a fall wasn’t deadly ?
Unfortunately spiders that keep climbing aimlessly might hurt themselves even on a shorter fall 1.5x DLS lid.
Care sheets were trash .. yet to have a 9-10”+ lasiodora. Still some of my favorites but not a size rival to t blondi . My biggest lp right now is 5”-6” still awsome !

 

[viper69]

Guess I must had missed that rule haha ,
“1.5x DLS lid to sub space rule “
More less so a fall wasn’t deadly ?
Unfortunately spiders that keep climbing aimlessly might hurt themselves even on a shorter fall 1.5x DLS lid.
Care sheets were trash .. yet to have a 9-10”+ lasiodora. Still some of my favorites but not a size rival to t blondi . My biggest lp right now is 5”-6” still awsome !

Correct

just wondering why Or what Apho thinks it’s arbitrary

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Completely arbitrary- What do you mean here?

I meant exactly what I wrote. The rule, or guideline, of the distance between the surface of the substrate and the top of a cage being 1.5x the legspan (diagonal or straight) to prevent injury or death to a non-arboreal tarantula when climbing is so exact that it couldn't possibly be rooted in any kind of logical reasoning. Why not 1x, 1.75x, 2x, 2.25x the legspan? The extra half of length of spider really isn't going to make a difference when it comes to a tarantula sustaining an injury or death from a fall. It isn't a bad guideline by any means, just arbitrary.

Another arbitrary rule, or guideline, that has become popular over the years is that any tarantula (arboreal or otherwise) needs cross ventilation. Again, not a bad rule, but again not rooted in any kind of logical thinking. Tarantulas, for the most part, need ventilated cages but the type and how that ventilation is achieved is irrelevant. Judging by some of the posts I have seen over the years, people sometimes overthink and put themselves through a lot of trouble to achieve a caging setup that just doesn't matter to the wellbeing of a tarantula.

 

[viper69]

I meant exactly what I wrote. The rule, or guideline, of the distance between the surface of the substrate and the top of a cage being 1.5x the legspan (diagonal or straight) to prevent injury or death to a non-arboreal tarantula when climbing is so exact that it couldn't possibly be rooted in any kind of logical reasoning. Why not 1x, 1.75x, 2x, 2.25x the legspan? The extra half of length of spider really isn't going to make a difference when it comes to a tarantula sustaining an injury or death from a fall. It isn't a bad guideline by any means, just arbitrary.

Another arbitrary rule, or guideline, that has become popular over the years is that any tarantula (arboreal or otherwise) needs cross ventilation. Again, not a bad rule, but again not rooted in any kind of logical thinking. Tarantulas, for the most part, need ventilated cages but the type and how that ventilation is achieved is irrelevant. Judging by some of the posts I have seen over the years, people sometimes overthink and put themselves through a lot of trouble to achieve a caging setup that just doesn't matter to the wellbeing of a tarantula.

That's the clarification I needed. Agreed, it could have been "any" number.

I think your comment of cross ventilation overlooks a few things.

 

[l4nsky]

Another arbitrary rule, or guideline, that has become popular over the years is that any tarantula (arboreal or otherwise) needs cross ventilation. Again, not a bad rule, but again not rooted in any kind of logical thinking. Tarantulas, for the most part, need ventilated cages but the type and how that ventilation is achieved is irrelevant. Judging by some of the posts I have seen over the years, people sometimes overthink and put themselves through a lot of trouble to achieve a caging setup that just doesn't matter to the wellbeing of a tarantula.

Respectfully, agree to disagree. The need and use of cross ventilation is entirely rooted in a logical thought process. The problem is that tarantulas are extremely good at surviving, so good in fact that people mistakenly believe they're thriving in substandard conditions when in fact they're not and these less-than-adequate husbandry methods get spread simply because of the justification that "my tarantula hasn't died yet, so I must be providing it with optimal care". Granted there are some exceptions to the rule (ie extremely sedentary desert species being kept on the dryer side can IMO thrive with only top ventilation), but generally speaking the need for cross ventilation isn't arbitrary IMHO.

 

[Wolfram1]

@viper69 & @l4nsky
Agreed about the ventilation part.

I think we rarely if ever acctually know/test how the ventilation we provide affects air movement and oxigen-exchange inside the enclosures we provide.

I do keep some spiders successfully by providing just one large steel-meshed side ventilation. Overall surface area being larger than if i combine top & side ventilation with chimney effect.

These are just my observations but I have also noticed that when combining top ventilation with side ventilation it makes a difference were the top ventilation is positioned. Placing the top ventilation in the center seems to give worse results for the spiders than placing it at the opposite side of the side ventilation.

Spiders in the afformentioned containers seem to sit almost exclusively in the center or high positions rather than inside the provided burrows, while the others use more or less the entire space despite overall ventilation surface and being the same. The same applies when just providing minimal top ventilation.

I would say they don't behave entirely normal, all caused by placement of the ventilation surfaces.

In this sense cross ventilation, while not the only solution, is certainly the most foolproof, and easily understood, for new keepers.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I think your comment of cross ventilation overlooks a few things.

Nah, I didn’t overlook anything. My statements on cross ventilation comes from hands-on experience as opposed to theory. My preferred method with housing arboreals is to use a large Kritter Keeper style plastic container turned on end so the plastic mesh lid is on the side. Never have I ever needed to drill holes in the opposite side of the mesh lid to produce cross ventilation. For ground-dwelling species I have no standard and proper ventilation is achieved in a variety of ways, but I have never intentionally created cross ventilation.

 

[The Spider House]

The cross ventilation certainly helps to keep the substrate "fresher" and helps prevent build up of mould or becoming too stagnant which also attracts other nasties. For that reason alone, it is a good practice IMHO.

 

[viper69]

Nah, I didn’t overlook anything. My statements on cross ventilation comes from hands-on experience as opposed to theory. My preferred method with housing arboreals is to use a large Kritter Keeper style plastic container turned on end so the plastic mesh lid is on the side. Never have I ever needed to drill holes in the opposite side of the mesh lid to produce cross ventilation. For ground-dwelling species I have no standard and proper ventilation is achieved in a variety of ways, but I have never intentionally created cross ventilation.

You are only an n=1, that is a small sample size.

To be more clear for you, because clearly I wasn't, I wasn't referring to your experience of keeping Ts. When I wrote "overlooking", I think in your comment you overlooked why people believe (rightly or wrongly) cross-ventilation is required for arboreals.This is my interpretation when you used "arbitrary", as if magically one day people started doing it for no reason. Or maybe didn't care to write, or have the time etc, to type out why you thought cross-ventilation came about.

I can't comment on the logic behind cross-ventilation for arboreals for all people because I don't know how others think of that husbandry reason.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Respectfully, agree to disagree. The need and use of cross ventilation is entirely rooted in a logical thought process. The problem is that tarantulas are extremely good at surviving, so good in fact that people mistakenly believe they're thriving in substandard conditions when in fact they're not and these less-than-adequate husbandry methods get spread simply because of the justification that "my tarantula hasn't died yet, so I must be providing it with optimal care". Granted there are some exceptions to the rule (ie extremely sedentary desert species being kept on the dryer side can IMO thrive with only top ventilation), but generally speaking the need for cross ventilation isn't arbitrary IMHO.

We can agree to disagree, that's fine. I'm not out to change anyone's mind on how to care for their tarantulas. I would like to tell you the story of how my mindset on tarantula care evolved over the years since it is relevant to your statements and this thread.

Back in the late 1980s when my parents bought me my first tarantula, a rose hair, the prevailing method of housing desert species was to use a small glass terrarium with aquarium gravel as a substrate and water provided with a sponge. My rose hair tarantula lived in that type of setup for well over 10 years. During that time it ate and molted as regularly as you would expect a rose hair tarantula to. In the year 2000-2001 I bought a copy of The Tarantula Keeper's Guide by Schultz and Schultz as well as Tarantulas and Other Arachnids by Sam Marshall and started my study of tarantula care. I also started reading all of the web sites I could find for additional tips and tricks. All of a sudden, my rose hair tarantula was apparently housed wrong and I wasn't caring for it correctly!

As a new keeper at the start of the 21st century, I took in all of the information I could find and started panicking that I was causing harm to my tarantula because it wasn't being housed correctly which resulted in me reconfiguring its housing using different containers and substrates. One year potting soil was the "in" substrate, then next it was sphagnum peat moss or vermiculite, some people said a combination of peat moss and vermiculite was best, then it was cocofiber, and some people in Europe were using compost. What was consistent however was that sponges were no good and all tarantulas need a small shallow dish of clean water. The final housing configuration for my rose hair tarantula ended up being a simple plastic shoebox container with a row of holes drilled around the top (but not in the lid), potting soil for substrate, no hide, and a small shallow water dish. That rose hair tarantula ultimately lived for well over 20 years and lived just fine in all of the different housing setups.

As the 2000s progressed, I acquired many more tarantulas of different species and essentially went through the same process of reading and changing the caging because each year it seemed, I was doing something wrong. Every tarantula keeper on the internet, or who published in a society journal, had their theories and justifications for why their way was correct. It occurred to me one day that the best teacher were the tarantulas themselves. As long as their basic needs were met, which differed by habit, they were doing well despite what everyone was saying. Even though my first tarantula lived on gravel and drank from a sponge, it acted no different from when it was housed "properly" with soil.

Now in 2023 reading Arachnoboards I'm seeing history repeat itself. Every few years it seems, someone comes up with some new way of housing tarantulas and justifying it with some overly complicated theory on why it should work. Meanwhile, all of the tarantulas I have had in my possession in the past 10 years were, and still are, being housed in a similar manner I used over 20 years ago. The only conclusion I can draw from all of this experience is that a tarantula's needs (regardless of species) never change. The only thing that does change on a regular basis, is what people believe is best for tarantulas.

So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how you provide ventilation for a tarantula so long as adequate ventilation is provided. It doesn't matter what soil to use as a substrate as long as it supports a tarantula's lifestyle. The only aspect of tarantula care that is indisputable is that they all need a shallow water dish with clean water, but I can spend a whole thread describing the exceptions to that rule.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Nah, I didn’t overlook anything. My statements on cross ventilation comes from hands-on experience as opposed to theory. My preferred method with housing arboreals is to use a large Kritter Keeper style plastic container turned on end so the plastic mesh lid is on the side. Never have I ever needed to drill holes in the opposite side of the mesh lid to produce cross ventilation. For ground-dwelling species I have no standard and proper ventilation is achieved in a variety of ways, but I have never intentionally created cross ventilation.

“Hypothetical question”
How do you add cross ventilation to a Glass tank , only my custom plexiglass lid I can drill in ? A few of my cages have screen lids but I’ve never seen my Ts climb the lid ever in last few years , so haven’t felt the need to replace them yet / with plexi but it’s certainly on the table .
Can’t drill into glass , … not that I will.

L para enclosure need more ventilation?

The air conditioning just got turned on so I noticed lots of condensation. This tank has only been in use a year or less for this spider. Again all I got to do is remove the spider if more holes are needed. perhaps add a little deeper substrate in the front ?

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