habeas scorpius
Arachnopeon
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2004
- Messages
- 20
i posted a few years back about finding an hemiscorpius for sale. do you think it's still impossible? i'd love to have one, as long as i can train it to know its limits.
hemiscorpius
- Thread starter habeas scorpius
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Messages
- 1,700
Train it to know its limits ??? I'm afraid that's nonsense--you can't train a scorpion to know anything. It just is what it is. And what H. lepturus is--if you ever find one--is horrendously toxic.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Messages
- 818
So is L. quinquestraitus, Androctonus sp., Tityus sp., and many other commonly available species. If hemiscorpius did make it the hobby, why would keeping it be any different than other hots?
I agree, though. I'd like to know what the OP means by "learning its limits." Scorps just aren't designed that way after all.
the difference between all the other hot buthids and hemiscorpius is that hemiscorpius lepturus has a highly necrotoxic venom, if you get stung by a andro you will probably escape with a sore sting site, with this sp you may lose your entire arm.
Last edited:
I thought Androctonus species could kill. :?
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Messages
- 818
Eh...they both seem pretty unpleasant to me. If I saw a hem-lep for sale anywhere I'd still take it. I don't see that happening anytime soon though.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2005
- Messages
- 8,325
well, i believe the heavy neurotoxic buthids can cause long term or permanent organic damage... i think like in the liver or kidneys
but your real chance of dying from them is probably pretty low. even though hospitals in nonlocal areas almost certainly won't have antivenin you can most likely be treated symptomatically and have any life threatening conditions dealt with. get ready to shell out the kilobucks though!
iirc, some of the medical accounts and references to H. lep's scorpionism were pretty gnarly... but i would be surprised if a wet sting was guaranteed death or maiming to even the majority of those who suffer it. who knows though, there is not a huge amount written about them, it seems like... and there probably are species of *something* out there that have high maim and death rates, especially for untreated victims
but your real chance of dying from them is probably pretty low. even though hospitals in nonlocal areas almost certainly won't have antivenin you can most likely be treated symptomatically and have any life threatening conditions dealt with. get ready to shell out the kilobucks though!
iirc, some of the medical accounts and references to H. lep's scorpionism were pretty gnarly... but i would be surprised if a wet sting was guaranteed death or maiming to even the majority of those who suffer it. who knows though, there is not a huge amount written about them, it seems like... and there probably are species of *something* out there that have high maim and death rates, especially for untreated victims
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Messages
- 1,700
I'll put it this way. In Iran, which is heavily populated with Androctonus crassicauda ( one of the MOST toxic Andros ), H. lepturus causes 10 % of the reported scorpion stings, but 90% of the fatalities from scorpion stings. The cytotoxic venom has necrotic effects along the lines of Sicarius, if that gives you any indication of what happens.
Do you want it just to say you have it? I really don't get why anyone would want it, except maybe for egotistical reasons. Andros and LQs are beautiful animals but Hemiscorpius isn't striking at all so that begs the question whether you want it to enjoy a nice captive or just to brag that you have the deadliest pet on the block? No offense, just looking out for our futures.
TBH
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2005
- Messages
- 8,325
you can't *really* say one thing is interesting or pretty and another thing is not... totally subjective
i do question the thought processes of most ppl keeping level 5 scorps or any other nasty venomous creature, though
i do question the thought processes of most ppl keeping level 5 scorps or any other nasty venomous creature, though
Yeah but they just look like funny colored and smaller Hadogenes sp. in my opinion, why not just get the harmless Hadogenes? But just randomly liking the most dangerous one of 1,000+ species does beg a question of why that one? It is not even a look that most people would find attractive, just a subtle earth-toned genus. But again, just my opinion.
TBH
TBH
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2008
- Messages
- 492
There was a page of info I remember reading somewhere on these boards or a link from these boards to somewhere on H. lepturus. It was either 30% or 70% fatality from a sting cant remember whatever it is its stupidly high. Lets see an Andro or LQ cause that percentage of fatalities with stings, isnt going to happen, people have insanely bad reactions to what i've read and just curious, but why does this species interest you? So far i'm not aware of them being in the hobby but maybe there is a similar specie that can fit the bill of what your looking for in a scorp.
A lot of people probably say that about scorpion keepers in general (and particuarly about scorpion keepers with any hot species).... there are so many interesting pets to choose from, vert and invert, and we all flock to the animal with the death barb on its butt. Does that mean everyone should go out and buy the most dangerous thing they can find? No of course not, but if he likes it because its got this crazy venom I actually have a hard time faulting him for that. That being said, hemiscorpius sounds flat out too dangerous IMO. probably reconsider this decision, especially if you're serious about teaching it its limits.... it's more likely to teach you yours....
Egotism is the wrong reason to do anything. I was just trying to reason with him as he doesn't really seem to "know his stuff." I'm just making this statement based on him saying that he could teach it to know its limits. There are many other reasons to own scorpion than due to egotism. How many other animals can you think of that are anywhere near as easy to care for as a scorpion? [That are actually legal of course.] Scorpions are also very interesting to watch as far as the way their life cycle works. I'm really not interested in something that I have to take care of everyday or make sure the water is just right in its aquarium. Also nothing with a life cycle of just a few weeks. Arachnids are just the right animals for me.
TBH
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2009
- Messages
- 2,672
Level 5 scorpions
I don't have any experience personally with these scorpions. I don't want to have any experience with these scorpions. %30-%70 death rate? Count me out. But then I just don't have to buy them right? Er, well kind of,... which is why you see the questions and hesitation here. If a 5 year old kid were to get stung by one of those here in Texas, that was obviously let out by an irresponsible pet owner, the effects on our hobby would be devastating. Most likely a complete ban. Even a "death stalker" by name alone could do this if it got out and hurt someone. But if you do decide to get this very lethal scorpion. At least triple cage it. With woven titanium mesh screen tops that lock with heavy duty locks. Motion sensors and Video recording feeds, Maybe in a locked room with fingerprint recognition entry only. Oh, and you would want to keep antivenin on hand in refigerator kept in the same room. Oh, and I would take out extra insurance..... O.k., I may be going a little overboard. But getting something like that could have serious consequences for us all. Think long and hard about that please.
I don't have any experience personally with these scorpions. I don't want to have any experience with these scorpions. %30-%70 death rate? Count me out. But then I just don't have to buy them right? Er, well kind of,... which is why you see the questions and hesitation here. If a 5 year old kid were to get stung by one of those here in Texas, that was obviously let out by an irresponsible pet owner, the effects on our hobby would be devastating. Most likely a complete ban. Even a "death stalker" by name alone could do this if it got out and hurt someone. But if you do decide to get this very lethal scorpion. At least triple cage it. With woven titanium mesh screen tops that lock with heavy duty locks. Motion sensors and Video recording feeds, Maybe in a locked room with fingerprint recognition entry only. Oh, and you would want to keep antivenin on hand in refigerator kept in the same room. Oh, and I would take out extra insurance..... O.k., I may be going a little overboard. But getting something like that could have serious consequences for us all. Think long and hard about that please.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2007
- Messages
- 189
Hemiscorpius sp is rare scorpions
Good luck
Anthony.T
Good luck
Anthony.T
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2007
- Messages
- 588
people have said this already, but there is no training a scorpion. I'm assuming you are speaking figuratively where "train it to know it's limits" really means "I'm gonna cage the hell out of this thing and never handle it. If, by some miracle, it gets out of the cage, it will find itself in another cage and give up trying to escape"
Someone else also mentioned that there's at least a 30% chance of dieing (not surprising when you look at the venom). Speaking of which, if the Sicarius comparison has you wondering (Sicarius venom is like brown recluse venom on steroids), here's a break down of what to expect in the event of a sting from this scorpion. Hemiscorpius lepturus venom is:
cytotoxic - it will kill/rupture your cells on contact. this can leave a rather large hole where skin and muscle used to be. Not sure on the limb loss that claum mentioned, but it isn't pretty and is probably painful as hell
- hemolytic - it will attack and kill your blood cells
- nephrotoxic - it will attack your kidneys
- hepatotoxic - it will attack your liver
Combine all those aspects together and your talking about one serious multifaceted attack on your body. It's no wonder that the fatality rate is so high. I'd say keeping this species is a bad idea. This sucker gets out and your talking serious exposure to danger for yourself and any unwitting people near you. Also, a sting from this species, in particular, will furnish the media with particularly gruesome pictures of dissolved flesh (unlike say, a neurotoxic scorpion sting) that could easily cause mass panic and ad hoc legislation to kill this hobby. That would be rather unfair since this species has very rare venom for scorpions (which I guess is why you want it).
So, as part of the decision making process, I would say to assume the worse. This thing stings you. Would you be happier 1) never having obtained the scorpion and having healthy blood, kidneys, liver, and no gapiong holes or lost limbs or 2) having the scorpion but having a maimed body to show for it?
Food for thought.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Messages
- 1,700
Very well said, and you are quite correct. At this level of potency, the primary cytotoxic action of "popping" cells extends to organs well beyond the skin. The blood cells will rupture en masse, clogging your kidneys and shutting them down. Your liver will swell in an attempt to absorb the toxin AND the red blood cells ( neither of which will succeed, but only impair your liver function ). It will also etch and weaken the blood vessels ( read: aneurysm, internal bleeding ), clog capillaries, ( occlusions of the extremities, heart attack, stroke, gangrene ). There will also be heart damage ( if it attacks your blood...it's in your heart as well, attacking it ).
And, as you said, there is the local tissue loss, which is severe, probable, and permanent. Putting labels ( hepatotoxic, nephrotoxic ) helps I think, to give people a bullet-point idea of JUST HOW TOXIC species like H. lepturus are. It's really far beyond the risk level of even the level 5 neurotoxic species. Neurotoxin either shuts you down completely, or has no permanent effects. Nothing about this venom is temporary--nearly every symptom causes permanent damage, in addition to the VERY high risk of death, and the virtual impossibility of treatment.