Help with general ID

EAD063

Arachnoprince
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Couldn't find a list with the arachnids or spiders native to here, but I ran across some of these while fishing.

They were found under a rock and once a shine of daylight came through, they started fighting. It lasted about 5 minutes, long enough for me to snap they're pic many many times in the wild. At first I thought wolfie, but then again, the shiny hairless prosoma made me say hmmm.
Any ideas?? Thanks!

 
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EAD063

Arachnoprince
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Here are also some cropped photos which may help

Thanks again.



 

P. Novak

ArachnoGod
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Wow no idea, but they look like neat little spiders. How big were they?

The last cropped pic, you can see the one being nailed in the "face" by the other.{D
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
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almost positive those are mygalomorpha :D

some kind trap door type spider.

crazy pics :)
 

NRF

Arachnoknight
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Why not Gnaphosa? The egg sacs look also gnaphosish.
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
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yeah, the fang mounts do look more true than myg, now that i look at them again
 

EAD063

Arachnoprince
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Hello all! Thanks for all he replies! These guys are about the size of a nickel. I realized they weren't something I'd personally seen here before, so I collected both individuals. Both were standing on sacs, about an 3 inches away from eachother, but since I collected them, they will not come out of the tangled fighting ball. I hope they both live but they won't let me seperate them from eachother. The sacs look healthy though, now lets hope I remember to take them out of my tackle box before they hatch and I have a house full of these guys! LOL

Thanks again!!
 

pitbulllady

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Why not Gnaphosa? The egg sacs look also gnaphosish.
Gnaphosids have those distinctive long tubelike spinnerettes, which these lack. The chelicerae of these definately suggest Mygalamorhs.

pitbulllady
 

EAD063

Arachnoprince
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One More Thing

Hello All,

Thanks again, but I have one more question. I find it akward that these were found under the same (very small) rock, but yet fought to the death without being provoked. One was smaller and one larger, with the larger surviving the brawl..both were living when I arrived home two hours later (but even after 10 minutes of my tweezers trying to un-ball them) they wouldn't stop. Both were on sacs, so I don't know if males in these species guard extra sacs, or if they were both competing females. Seemed weird for neighbors though. Also, interstingly enough, they were found about 2 feet from the water.
 

8+)

Arachnolord
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In one pic you can see the characteristic "hump" where the base of traps chelicerae reside. Also, it looks as if the bottom one is in a trap doored burrow. The eyes are throwing me, as is the size, though.
 

EAD063

Arachnoprince
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Well both were found in shallow burrows, not big enough to trap in, but just enough to where they were both on top of the egg sacs.. Perhaps close to the water so the egg sacs don't dry out? I put the spider on peat, in a tall 'crystal light' vile type thing. There was a small depression in the corner of the vile and the spider went straight for that. Also, if its useful, when transfering from an empty vile to the peat filled one, the spider didn't make itself a parachute line for the fall, it just fell right out when I dumped it, which is abnormal, even for the wolfies I've caught.
 

NRF

Arachnoknight
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Can you enlarge the eye region from the third photo?
 

lucanidae

Arachnoprince
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When you enlarge the picture you can see that the chelicerae are that of a true spider, not a mygalamorph. Also, the anterior lateral eyes are larger than the anterior median eyes when you enlarge the photo. This means it can not be Gnaphosidae. What is points me towards is Amaurobiidae. This fits the eyes and general body shape while accounting for the missing characteristic spinerets. In your area you only have one genus looks like that, Amaurobius. I was pushed to species I would guess A. ferox because of the dark coloration; but this is really going beyond what the picture can really tell us.
 

NRF

Arachnoknight
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I don't know about the looser, but the one above I think looks like Gnaphosidae and not Amaurobiidae (the overall appearance and especially the narrow head region make me not concider Amaurobiidae). The "missing" spinnerets might just not be visible from this angle (or they are in use for capturing the prey and bent in under the abdomen). I would like to see the eyes from above but the quality of the pics are too bad. Can you EAD063 enlarge it from the original photo?
The egg sac is very typical for Gnaphosa and the females of Gnaphosa (and many other Gnaphosids) aggressively guard the egg sacs. If these are Amaurobiidae there would have to bee cribellate silk all over the place while Gnaphosa hardly have any threads around its "nest" where it guards the egg sac. It do not need to be Gnaphosa but Gnaphosidae anyway. I might of course be wrong :)
 
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