Help Please: Tarantula Illness Spreading Through Collection

[ErinM31]

Of course you can. Why ever not? There are staining methods to demonstrate bacteria and fungi (microsporidia) in histology. Maybe I misunderstood - cutting open the tarantula isn't enough, you need to do an actual histology and I've only seen that once, as I said, but that one clearly demonstrated bacteria and microsporidia.

Yes, with histology you may be able to determine if bacteria and fungi are present where they shouldn’t be. This would not be dissection, but fixing the specimen and then preparing slices, right? I haven’t done any of this myself, but was thinking with dissection alone you would only be able to discern gross pathology such as tumors, etc. and the presence of certain parasites.

 

[Justin H]

So I ask,the folks who may know...does an insectiside/pesticide need to make physical contact
with a T,to cause harm?Can it be brought through the air ducts,be absorbed through the brook lugs
and cause problems?

Does anybody have an answer to this question? Can toxic fumes from pesticides be absorbed through the book lungs?

My understanding is that a lot of pesticides require direct contact and generally don't work on spiders since they walk on their toes. Is this true?

My landlord likes to spray around the house to kill ants in the summer. Is this going to be a problem? We'll have serious ant problems if we don't. I can always move them to a family member's house for a couple days if I need to.

 

[Vanisher]

I believe they can yes!

 

[ErinM31]

Does anybody have an answer to this question? Can toxic fumes from pesticides be absorbed through the book lungs?

My understanding is that a lot of pesticides require direct contact and generally don't work on spiders since they walk on their toes. Is this true?

My landlord likes to spray around the house to kill ants in the summer. Is this going to be a problem? We'll have serious ant problems if we don't. I can always move them to a family member's house for a couple days if I need to.

I am afraid I cannot tell you how the pesticides work. I can only tell you that I live in an apartment where pesticides are sprayed outside and I have never had any problem with my T’s and other inverts.

I think that contact is required but I believe that would include contact with the tarsi, if only because it would then be ingested during grooming.

 

[Dry Desert]

I am afraid I cannot tell you how the pesticides work. I can only tell you that I live in an apartment where pesticides are sprayed outside and I have never had any problem with my T’s and other inverts.

I think that contact is required but I believe that would include contact with the tarsi, if only because it would then be ingested during grooming.

I live in the UK, have 3 dogs that get flea treatment regularly- no problems all the times I kept T's. I now have a vast scorpion collection with no problems .with chemical contamination from any animal treatment. What I will mention though is when I kept marine fish I had two separate wipeouts due to the local WATER Board flushing the main water pipes, I found out later. When I challenged them they said they flush the pipes with chemicals for human benefit they aren't concerned with affects on other things, they do it to comply with legal requirements for drinking water. They also flushed without needing to inform the consumer. This is the UK but I would imagine it applies elsewhere.

 

[mack1855]

@Nepenthe56 ,any updates?.How are your animals doing?.Did any spraying/pest control happen
without your knowledge.

 

[Nepenthe56]

@Nepenthe56 ,any updates?.How are your animals doing?.Did any spraying/pest control happen
without your knowledge.

No spraying was carried out by the landlord. The P. metallica and the P. murinus both passed away today. Dissecting the P. metallica didn't reveal any sort of bacterial infection. I'm gonna go have a good cry now.

 

[Phia]

Oh man this thread makes me anxious. How horrible ....

I'm very sorry for your losses. :'(

 

[Dry Desert]

Oh man this thread makes me anxious. How horrible ....

I'm very sorry for your losses. :'(

Try washing all the water dishes and start using bottled water, worth a try, reference my previous post.

 

[ErinM31]

No spraying was carried out by the landlord. The P. metallica and the P. murinus both passed away today. Dissecting the P. metallica didn't reveal any sort of bacterial infection. I'm gonna go have a good cry now.

I am so sorry for your loss! Did the P. metallica show similar symptoms to the others before passing or was their death more sudden? How are the rest of your tarantulas?

 

[Nepenthe56]

The GBB and P. Metallica were both acting strangely. I was hoping the P. Metallica would pull through because it seemed to regain it's ability to walk for a few days. They both died very suddenly. The P. Murinus was in a death curl for over a week and I was giving it a drop of water each day with a cotton swab. The rest of the collection seems fine. A couple are refusing food, but I'm pretty sure they're in premolt.

 

[Sarkhan42]

There seems to be a lack of information concerning pesticides in this thread, I will HOPEFULLY attempt to clear some of that up. I will absolutely not get every detail in this, and I apologize for mistakes as I'm writing this while finishing a paper.

Put simply, pesticides are heavily dependent on their chemical structure for how they are taken up and accepted by the invertebrate body, and even moreso are dependent on their ability from here to find their target site which can actually vary greatly. This changes both the way a t could encounter a pesticide, as well as the way that the T will respond to it.

As far as contact goes, most insecticides are heavily apolar, which allows them to pass through the cuticle and membranes within the body very readily. the better an insecticide is at this, the more likely its used as a topical application as simply walking on it is enough for it to be taken up. Other insecticides may be volatile enough to easily be applied in a vapor that enters the respiratory system, for example organophosphates. These chemicals in vapor form are often used for greenhouse and home treatments because they persist in gaseous form, preventing insect pests from simply escaping from them. These will likely have no issue entering a Ts system through booklungs, though I don't know of any studies specifically on the topic. Even further, some insecticides are made to be taken up through feeding and broken down into less stable even more toxic metabolites.

As far as symptoms go, insecticides cover a HUGE variety of target sites even just within a single body system. They can cause excitation in the nervous system, prevent signaling in the nervous system, induce muscle contraction or relaxation, they can inhibit metabolic activity by directly impacting the electron transport chain, they can alter the synthesis of chitin, they can induce or prevent molting, rupture the insect gut, damage the insect cuticle causing desiccation, and more.

This is why its hard to say "Yup, symptoms like that are definitely insecticide related" because even in insecticides mode of action can differ incredibly, it is important to know exactly what was used to attribute this to the cause.

It should be noted though that the two primary compounds in both flea and tick treatments(something cited commonly in conjunction with these symptoms)- Imidacloprid and fipronil, DO induce hyperexcitation that some might describe as "DKS". Alongside this many commonly used insecticides are nerve agents, but that doesn't mean all of them are, and that doesn't mean they all act in the same manner with the same symptoms. The nervous system has a huge variety of target sites that insecticides can target, with a wide variety of results.

TLDR, know your chemical, and insecticides have WIDE variety in both exposure and mode of action.