HELP - OBT on last legs

burnsj22

Arachnopeon
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Jan 28, 2017
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hey everyone,

I have had my p. murinus for about a year and she's always been a little different than I expected but these past couple weeks have been extremely concerning. She has been in her burrow with most of her legs curled underneath her body :\ It has been months since she has eaten anything -- I offer multiple types of food on a regular basis but she never goes for it; she either ignores it completely, moves away from it, or will rear up momentarily. Yesterday she did come out of the burrow so I was able to see how shrunken her abdomen has become and it breaks my heart! She did drink for about 15 or 20 minutes (first time I have observed this) but I don't know what to do for her if she won't eat. She is on coconut fiber, has a water dish but I otherwise keep the tank pretty dry, the temp is around 75, and I've tried crickets, dubia roaches, and wax worms. If anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it! She's one of my favorite Ts and I don't want to lose her!
 
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Blue Jaye

Arachnobaron
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Sounds like she's dehydrated. Especially if she drank water for 15-20 minutes. So the first thing I will say is keep her water dish full. It's a good sign she's drinking on her own. But it could also be a sign of age. If she's an adult and you purchased her as an adult. How big is she? Do you always have water available for her? What do you keep her in. Can we get a pic. It will help us help you if we have a little more info. But for starters sounds like she's dehydrated.
 

burnsj22

Arachnopeon
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Jan 28, 2017
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Sounds like she's dehydrated. Especially if she drank water for 15-20 minutes. So the first thing I will say is keep her water dish full. It's a good sign she's drinking on her own. But it could also be a sign of age. If she's an adult and you purchased her as an adult. How big is she? Do you always have water available for her? What do you keep her in. Can we get a pic. It will help us help you if we have a little more info. But for starters sounds like she's dehydrated.
The water dish is always available. She is in a 12x12x12 exo terra which I realize is a little big but this is what fills the space on my shelving unit which prevents my cats and roaming reptiles from sitting on top of the enclosure and damaging it and is the most secure option. She has multiple hideouts available to help her feel more secure in the larger terrarium. She has ultilized the soil and one of the hides. She also webbed up the top corner and lived up there for a few weeks. If she is an adult then she is super small, her body (carapace and ab) is about 1.5 inches long. In the 11 months that I've had her she has only molted once and that was late May. I don't have a picture of the enclosure but this is the picture I took of her when she came out to drink yesterday and my other most recent picture of her getting into her webbing.
 

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boina

Lady of the mites
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From the pics I think it's a real possibility that it's not a "she" at all, but a mature male nearing the end of his life. I'm no expert on baboon spiders, but @KezyGLA is, and I think baboon males are significantly smaller than females.
Can you get a good look at the pedipalps? Does he/she have bulbs at the end?
 

EulersK

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From the pics I think it's a real possibility that it's not a "she" at all, but a mature male nearing the end of his life. I'm no expert on baboon spiders, but @KezyGLA is, and I think baboon males are significantly smaller than females.
Can you get a good look at the pedipalps? Does he/she have bulbs at the end?
They are a bit smaller, but the timeline and pictures don't point to a MM. Male P. murinus mature in as little as a year, and I don't see any emboli in the first picture (not super clear, though). I think the OP simply has a runt. But yeah, a better picture of the pedipalps would help. Everything other than the timeline does indeed point to a MM.
 

bryverine

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From the pics I think it's a real possibility that it's not a "she" at all, but a mature male nearing the end of his life. I'm no expert on baboon spiders, but @KezyGLA is, and I think baboon males are significantly smaller than females.
Can you get a good look at the pedipalps? Does he/she have bulbs at the end?
These guys also get some pretty pronounced hooks as a MM. I'd look for those too...

Edit: let me clarify and say that the ones I've seen have pronounced hooks.
 

burnsj22

Arachnopeon
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Jan 28, 2017
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39
From the pics I think it's a real possibility that it's not a "she" at all, but a mature male nearing the end of his life. I'm no expert on baboon spiders, but @KezyGLA is, and I think baboon males are significantly smaller than females.
Can you get a good look at the pedipalps? Does he/she have bulbs at the end?
I have never attempted to sex him/her, I've just always used female pronouns in a wishful thinking sort of way. I knew males were smaller but I didn't realize that they could be this small
 

burnsj22

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Jan 28, 2017
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They are a bit smaller, but the timeline and pictures don't point to a MM. Male P. murinus mature in as little as a year, and I don't see any emboli in the first picture (not super clear, though). I think the OP simply has a runt. But yeah, a better picture of the pedipalps would help. Everything other than the timeline does indeed point to a MM.
 

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EulersK

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Certainly not a mature male, and I believe it's a female from the ventral sex combined with the timeline.

I have never attempted to sex him/her, I've just always used female pronouns in a wishful thinking sort of way. I knew males were smaller but I didn't realize that they could be this small
Some males are tiny compared to females, and P. murinus is an example of that. The last male I had mature on me was a whopping 2.5".
 

KezyGLA

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Right it looks a little rough in the first photos. What size did you get it at? Males mature around the 3" mark but can mature even smaller. When was the photo you just posted taken?

If now then it looks like a she and perfectly healthy
 

KezyGLA

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She could possibly be in premoult and just be very lethargic. The look of the patella in the 2nd photo you posted suggest a moult coming.
 

burnsj22

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Certainly not a mature male, and I believe it's a female from the ventral sex combined with the timeline.



Some males are tiny compared to females, and P. murinus is an example of that. The last male I had mature on me was a whopping 2.5".
Can you describe what you are looking at when you say female?
 

burnsj22

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Jan 28, 2017
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Right it looks a little rough in the first photos. What size did you get it at? Males mature around the 3" mark but can mature even smaller. When was the photo you just posted taken?

If now then it looks like a she and perfectly healthy
I couldn't accurately say what size it was when I got it, just that there wasn't much a jump in size after the molt. The last photo was taken back in July, it is definitely not in the same condition anymore.
 

burnsj22

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She could possibly be in premoult and just be very lethargic. The look of the patella in the 2nd photo you posted suggest a moult coming.
If theres a possibility of premolt and evidence of lethargy, would you say it would be unwise to offer food? The idea of a molt had crossed my mind a couple weeks ago and I certainly don't want to add any stress if that's the case.
 

EulersK

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Can you describe what you are looking at when you say female?
The pedipalps would have emboli if it were a mature male - they would look like little boxing gloves. As for me saying it's female, baboons aren't too difficult to vent sex. The first set of book lungs being so far apart is usually a dead give away, but the females are also usually "lippy" like this individual.

If theres a possibility of premolt and evidence of lethargy, would you say it would be unwise to offer food? The idea of a molt had crossed my mind a couple weeks ago and I certainly don't want to add any stress if that's the case.
Worst case scenario is that she doesn't eat. I'd offer food. Tarantulas will often refuse food if they're dehydrated, which may be what's going on here.
 

KezyGLA

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The best way would be to try get some good pics of the specimen as it is now. We will know what to look for and have a better understanding of what she/he looks like and hopefully be able to give the best advice we can
 

burnsj22

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Jan 28, 2017
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The best way would be to try get some good pics of the specimen as it is now. We will know what to look for and have a better understanding of what she/he looks like and hopefully be able to give the best advice we can
I'll keep an eye out for more activity and take pictures if anything happens but unfortunately I can't really get a good shot while he/she is in the burrow
 

burnsj22

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I'll keep an eye out for more activity and take pictures if anything happens but unfortunately I can't really get a good shot while he/she is in the burrow
"she" was considerate enough to relocate overnight from the burrow to her web at the top of the tank which allowed me to take some better lit pictures this morning. Don't know if they help given that she's in a funky position. Typical that I've been worried about her for some time and now that I decide to reach out for opinions she decides its time to uncurl her legs and move around.
 

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KezyGLA

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Ok, from those photos I can tell you it is a female.

The abdomen is a little shrivelled which not a good sign. I would introduce a large water dish asap.

There seems to be a white mark on her ventral side. I am not sure if it is in the webbing but there is a possibility that it might be a split in the exo and is leaking a little haemolymph? Its hard to tell but an injury or a parasite may be the issue. I am hoping that it is not the latter. You will be able to see this better than us.
 
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burnsj22

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Jan 28, 2017
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Ok, from those photos I can tell you it is a female.

The abdomen is a little shrivelled which not a good sign. I would inteoduce a large water dish asap.

There seems to be a white mark on her ventral side. I am not sure if it is in the webbing but there is a possibility that it might be a split in the exo and is leaking a little haemolymph? Its hard to tell but an injury or a parasite may be the issue. I am hoping that it is not the latter. You will be able to see this better than us.
ah I was so focused on abdomen size that I totally missed that when I was taking the pictures (plus it was 5AM) and now its just glaring at me :arghh:. I'll have to wait a few hours to go home from my lab and look again. Cannot believe I missed that, I feel like such a noob and an improper spider mom. In my years of keeping them I have never had anything like this happen.
 
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