Help me end some debates

looseyfur

Arachnofur
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
431
First-
Do/Do not handle T's-
heres my stance - common sence / personally I would not be intrested in handeling anything I was unfamilar with or was a Pokie ( no offence Poe lovers but they are a tad to dangerous to me) I as a rule hardly handle T's but hope I am not really missing out on some of the adventure of it as a hobby.

Comunial living with Pinktoes-
oddly enough I have seen several of them in a certian pet chain here in Massachuttes dont visit there often but they have been there for over a year now (were five now three) kid there told me 1 bought 1 death

Who to buy from ? this is kind of a loaded question I did read the strings here on wholesalers and dealers but honestly I would rather deal with some of you all personally I have been doing alot of reading here and this place is truely blessed with some knowladgeable folks ( I think you know who you are and if you are looking to sell please message me )

natural environments- one thing I have always been into is natural environments for my exotic pets and for my fishtanks for sure . for the fish I can say that striving to meet there natural bio-conditions has been both fun and rewarding. being kinda new with T's (only about a year) I have heard most keepers tell me I am wasting my time and one even told me I was stressing out the T's with it. I do have one T with a baldarse and she just wont relax ... but the rest seem fine ...

lastly - aggro T's vs docile T's - I get massive conflicting information from the web about whats really aggressive and whats calm I am really intrested in calm proven low tox venom T's ( I like everything calm not just T's hehe) but everytime I consider buying something new and diffrent I research them and tend to get the vibe that they are an aggro genus... so can someone point me toward the few that are in a whole docile ( I consider rosea redknees and curleys docile as well as pinktoes and redrumps ) but here I am avoiding the bluebotle the whole while thing its fast and aggro and I findout just the oppsite from some very knowledgable folks here.

welp- er thanks if you choose to respond
E.

:8o
 

Botar

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
1,442
Handling: I kind of take Gail's stance on this issue. I don't do much handling simply because I don't want the T to be injured and I'd rather not get bitten or haired. With that being said, I have handled some, usually unintentionally, and it is quite thrilling.

Communal housing: I've never tried it and doubt I ever will... but that is just me.

From who to purchase: Members here will often list T's for sale or trade. Also, some of the dealers listed are also members here. You will notice some have several entries... I would be comfortable in ordering from any which have received glowing recommendations from members who you come to trust.

Natural environments: Although I appreciate the artistic work involved, they are not for me personally. I keep mine in more simplistic set-ups for convenience sake.

Temperment: This is going to vary from keeper to keeper and possibly from T to T within a species. I'd read something where someone argued that none of them are "aggressive". You will find that some are more "defensive" than others. If they are comfortable and feel safe, they will generally not react violently towards you. I've also read where others have mentioned that a T's temperment may be influenced by feeding habits. If you typically drop the T's food into the enclosure near the T, you may be "training" it to be more aggressive towards movement.

Just points to ponder.

Botar
 

Gillian

Arachnoblessed
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
1,123
Originally posted by looseyfur
First-
Do/Do not handle T's-
heres my stance - common sence / personally I would not be intrested in handeling anything I was unfamilar with or was a Pokie ( no offence Poe lovers but they are a tad to dangerous to me) I as a rule hardly handle T's but hope I am not really missing out on some of the adventure of it as a hobby.


*Hi,
Ok. Many people choose not to handle, for 1 very simple reason. Tarantulas are extremely fragile. It takes but a fall of a few inches to kill them. Myself, yes, I do handle. Not all the time, for I know these are not dogs, or any other animal that may like close contact with us.

Comunial living with Pinktoes-

*This I'm not certain on.

Who to buy from ? this is kind of a loaded question I did read the strings here on wholesalers and dealers but honestly I would rather deal with some of you all personally I have been doing alot of reading here and this place is truely blessed with some knowladgeable folks ( I think you know who you are and if you are looking to sell please message me )

* As of present, 7/8 of my t's came from Swift's Invertebrates. Now, this is by no means, the ONLY dealer. Just take your time, when choosing.

natural environments- one thing I have always been into is natural environments for my exotic pets and for my fishtanks for sure . for the fish I can say that striving to meet there natural bio-conditions has been both fun and rewarding. being kinda new with T's (only about a year) I have heard most keepers tell me I am wasting my time and one even told me I was stressing out the T's with it. I do have one T with a baldarse and she just wont relax ... but the rest seem fine ...

* As for natural environments, they may work. However, they can take more time to work with. If you have natural plants in the terrarium, be aware that they will raise the humidity, quite a bit. If you have a "drier" species, this is not good.

lastly - aggro T's vs docile T's - I get massive conflicting information from the web about whats really aggressive and whats calm I am really intrested in calm proven low tox venom T's ( I like everything calm not just T's hehe) but everytime I consider buying something new and diffrent I research them and tend to get the vibe that they are an aggro genus... so can someone point me toward the few that are in a whole docile ( I consider rosea redknees and curleys docile as well as pinktoes and redrumps ) but here I am avoiding the bluebotle the whole while thing its fast and aggro and I findout just the oppsite from some very knowledgable folks here.

Ok, myself, I subscribe to defensive or docile.

* Here's what I have:
*smithi-docile, but quite the hair flicker.
* albopilosum (curly)- very calm, eats well
* c. fasciatum- not aggressive, but more nervous.
* t. blondi- defensive. VERY irritating bristles.
* rosea, sweet, but quirky.
*a. avic- docile, but jumpy
*p. scrofa- very sweet and docile
* e. campestratus- sweet to the point of not moving
* g. pulchra- the BEST pet t
*g. aureostriatum- big, fluffy sweetheart
* rosea (red phase)- skittish
*l. parahybana- not certain yet (very small sling)

I told you the ones I keep, as I stick to docile ones. (with the exception of my blondi)

Hope this helps..

Gillian
welp- er thanks if you choose to respond
E.

:8o
 

jwb121377

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
907
Originally posted by looseyfur
First-
Do/Do not handle T's-
I do and see no reason why if someone wants to handle there t they shouldn't.

Comunial living with Pinktoes-
We seem to be getting this one alot lately. I think the risk is just to high to justify it.


Who to buy from ?
There are a couple I've dealt with, Kelly Swift(www.swiftinverts.com) and Art Cerda(artcerda@cs.com). Both are great and I will buy from both again.


natural environments-
I never really pay it that much mind.

lastly - aggro T's vs docile T's
If you want some docile T's here are some of my favorites:
B. albopiloum
E. campestratus
A. aviculara
G. puchlara

If you want a evil t then:
H. lividum
H. gigas
C. crawshayi
P. cambridgei

Of corse there are many others.
 
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looseyfur

Arachnofur
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
431
Art

odd you should mention art
I have been emailing him back and forth for a few days to see if he is someone I would want to order from. He seems pretty darn cool and I am glad to hear positive stuff about him. I live about 50 mins away from regal reptiles and I know pat is pretty damn good as well- I am meeting some great and knowlegdable (god no matter how I spell that it looks wrong) ppl here and hope I can trade or buy from some of them as well.
thanks again-
Ed.
 

jwb121377

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
907
Oh Art cerda is real good, I got two slings from him over the summer: G. puchlara A. versicolor If you buy from him you won't be disappointed.
 

Code Monkey

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
3,786
Originally posted by looseyfur
Do/Do not handle T's-
Pros:It can make you more familiar with T body language and put you at ease working with them, this could potentially save you a bite or your Ts life if you in the future don't overreact to something your T does unexpectedly, e.g. dashes out of the cage and up your arm. The increased calmness on your part combined with some desensitization of the T to human disturbances can also potentially decrease stress for tank cleanings and transfers.
Cons:Increased risk of a bite or damage/death to the T during handling sessions. Improper handling probably just stresses the T even more.
Bottom line: Your T does not need to be handled, if you are confident that you can do it calmly and take precautions that the T isn't dropped more than a few inches, go for it. If you at all doubt your ability to remain calm, don't. The world's not going to change either way.


Comunial living with Pinktoes-
Not worth the risk unless you have money to burn. No T in the trade is truly social as an adult. Many species do tolerate one another for breeding purposes, many slings and related juveniles seem to show some degree of cooperation (e.g. pokies). Avicularia are definitely just *tolerant* at any stage. You may go a day, you may go a year, but the odds are the longer you go, someone is going to get munched.


Who to buy from ?
The two best reps you will find is John Hoke of e-spiderworld and Kelly Swift of Swift's Invertebrates. Both of these men have pretty much platinum plated respect for top of the line service. I haven't ordered from Swift, but I have Hoke and if I had more money, I'd order from him more often. Another highly respected dealer who has been around for some time and does a lot to support the community is Darrin Vernier of Golden Phoenix Exotica. I have dealt with him and he is a very conscientious dealer, nice guy, and straight shooter. Two other dealers that get positive buzz on this board is Darwin of the Spiderpatch, and Art Ceda of Midwest Exotics, I haven't dealt with either but have only read positive reports.

While I don't really want to recommend against anyone, be careful with Paul Becker of Arachnocenter. He's sloppy with the stock list, has been known to be sloppy with identification, and can be a p.i.a. to get to fix screwups on his end.

natural environments-
You're wasting your time. If you've got a stressed T it's because it wants a hide, a burrow, or quieter surroundings. The hide can be a chunk of PVC pipe as far as they're concerned, a burrow just means give it more substrate, and quieter surroundings is self explanatory.


aggro T's vs docile T's -
If you want "proven" docile and mild venom, stick to Aphonopelma, Avicularia, Brachypelma, Cyclosternum, Eupelaestrus, and Grammostola genera. Remove A. moderatum, and B. vagans from the groups as having mixed reports on their attitudes. There are probably others with some "nastier reps" but do your research and you'll be fine. None in those genera are going to be that bad.

EDIT: I'm still not sure where you got the idea Chromatopelma was aggressive, if you like their look, don't let your perceptions scare you off.
 
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Phillip

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
1,328
pretty much CM summed it up....

I agree with pretty much all that CM has said here with one exception and this isn't about his comment either.

An aggressive animal is one that deliberately tries to attack you such as a ticked off wild boar or an attack dog. Tarantulas are defensive not aggressive as even the worst tempered species around prefer to run 1st and fight when running is not an option. The very labeling of aggressive is in the majority of cases incorrect.

Phil
 

belewfripp

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Messages
345
Agreed

I agree completely about the labeling of Ts as aggressive. The only value that term has for them would be to people uneducated about them that refuse everything but simple answers, and even then I prefer to try to explain the issue in more depth than that.
Even the most 'aggressive' tarantula is still just reacting to a perceived threat; we may believe that what they perceive as a threat is ridiculous or overblown, but we're people, so we of course aren't going to find the propsect of us leaning over that S. calceatum guarding her eggsac to be a frightening one, but to a T, things look/sound/smell a lot different.


One of the things that first attracted me to this site, either before it had a forum or before I knew it had one, was the fact that in the caresheets Scott used defensive in place of aggressive and, with the exception of Ceratogyrus sanderi, still has them listed that way.


Adrian
 

Gillian

Arachnoblessed
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
1,123
Re: pretty much CM summed it up....

Originally posted by Phillip

An aggressive animal is one that deliberately tries to attack you such as a ticked off wild boar or an attack dog. Tarantulas are defensive not aggressive as even the worst tempered species around prefer to run 1st and fight when running is not an option. The very labeling of aggressive is in the majority of cases incorrect.

Phil
Amen...

Peace,
Gillian
 
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