Having Trouble Finding Juvenile Brachypelma Smithi and What Is Considered A Juvenile?

[Isilwen]

I have wanted a b.smithi for a very, very long time. However, my ex-wife wouldn't allow me to have a leopard gecko let alone a tarantula, so I was never able to obtain one. Today, I am with a lovely woman, who wasn't into reptiles till she met me and no has a self-proclaimed problem and wants to have a house full of them. She is reluctant still with tarantulas, however, she said that is all me and has given me the go ahead to purchase one.

My problem is, I don't want a sling and I cannot seem to find a juvenile one for sale. Unless I am sizing them wrong and they are considered juveniles. I went to a local reptile show last week and some places had them in the size cup you would put a small leopard gecko in, but the spiders themselves were still pretty small. They wanted $120 for those. I am also trying to find a female as I know they are long lived and I would prefer a tarantula that lives over five years. I am willing to pay a little more for a larger sized b.smithi if it is indeed a female. We're headed to another show tomorrow, but for the most part it will be the same breeders there as was there last week as the shows are only 50 miles apart.

What is the minimum size for a juvenile and anyone know where I can find one?

Thank you!

 

[Vanessa]

A species who reaches about 5-6", which this one does, would be considered a juvenile at about the 2" mark until they jump into the sub-adult category at about 4". The terms are subjective, though. There is no hard and fast rule about what size is considered spiderling, juvenile, and sub-adult. I would definitely be referring to a 2" smithi/hamorii as a juvenile.
If you are looking for a larger female of either hamorii or smithi (I'm thinking that you are actually wanting a Brachypelma hamorii), you will have to be prepared to pay a high price for her.

 

[cold blood]

A juvie male would still live well over 5 years...probably double that if its a young juvie.

Theyre generally considered juvies when they start to get adult colors...about 2"....and would be considered a juvie til close to 4"....by 4 they would be cinsidered by most to be a sub adult...keep in mind, these terms are highly subjective.

 

[Isilwen]

A species who reaches about 5-6", which this one does, would be considered a juvenile at about the 2" mark until they jump into the sub-adult category at about 4". The terms are subjective, though. There is no hard and fast rule about what size is considered spiderling, juvenile, and sub-adult. I would definitely be referring to a 2" smithi/hamorii as a juvenile.

That makes sense. I don't think I have seen anything that is two inches as of yet.

If you are looking for a larger female of either hamorii or smithi (I'm thinking that you are actually wanting a Brachypelma hamorii), you will have to be prepared to pay a high price for her.

I figured the price would definitely be higher. I am willing to pay a higher price for her. As for wanting the hamorii, no, I am sure I am wanting a smithi.

 

[cold blood]

A species who reaches about 5-6", which this one does, would be considered a juvenile at about the 2" mark until they jump into the sub-adult category at about 4". The terms are subjective, though. There is no hard and fast rule about what size is considered spiderling, juvenile, and sub-adult. I would definitely be referring to a 2" smithi/hamorii as a juvenile.
If you are looking for a larger female of either hamorii or smithi (I'm thinking that you are actually wanting a Brachypelma hamorii), you will have to be prepared to pay a high price for her.

omg, we just made the same post at basically the same time...lol....great minds

 

[Isilwen]

A juvie male would still live well over 5 years...probably double that if its a young juvie.

Thanks! Are males generally smaller than females? That would be another reason for me wanting a female, but I am open to getting a male.

Theyre generally considered juvies when they start to get adult colors...about 2"....and would be considered a juvie til close to 4"....by 4 they would be cinsidered by most to be a sub adult...keep in mind, these terms are highly subjective.

Maybe I am seeing juveniles then. There is some coloration starting to come in on the ones that I have seen.

 

[cold blood]

As for wanting the hamo

what was smithi recently, is now called hamorii.....not only that, to the untrained eye, you wouldnt be able to tell them apart.

Thanks! Are males generally smaller than females? That would be another reason for me wanting a female, but I am open to getting a male.

Males can mature smaller for many species....males of this species are typically about the same size...

hamorii pairing

• cold blood
• Nov 24, 2019
• 8

 

[Isilwen]

what was smithi recently, is now called hamorii.....not only that, to the untrained eye, you wouldnt be able to tell them apart.

If I remember correctly, the smithi is the one that has the little black bar in the center that runs vertically down the leg from the knee? Smithi also tends to be a bit brighter and doesn't have as much brown/orange on the carapace.

Males can mature smaller for many species....males of this species are typically about the same size...

hamorii pairing

• cold blood
• Nov 24, 2019
• 8

Okay cool! Male wouldn't be too bad then.

 

[Vanessa]

As for wanting the hamorii, no, I am sure I am wanting a smithi.

Since what is now a Brachypelma smithi (formerly annitha) is far less common in the hobby than Brachypelma hamorii (formerly smithi) is - you can expect to pay a lot more for her.

 

[Isilwen]

Since what is considered now to be a smithi is far less common in the hobby than hamorii (formerly smithi) is - you can expect to pay a lot more for her.

I was finding some smithi for $120, but they were un-sexed and still rather small. Although, I guess with them getting their coloration in and they are in a cup used for smaller reptiles they are larger than a sling.

Here is a picture to show approximately the size as the ones I am seeing or ethier a little smaller or larger:



Is a smithi this size easier to care for than a sling?

 

[Jesse607]

Just an FYI, there are still many sellers out there labeling their B. hamorii incorrectly as B. smithi. As others eluded to, if a few years ago you wanted a B. smithi, then what you wanted was a B. hamorii that was being incorrectly called B. smithi. If a few years ago it was B. annitha you wanted, then it was actually a B. smithi incorrectly called annitha. Yeah a bit confusing definitely.

 

[Isilwen]

Just an FYI, there are still many sellers out there labeling their B. hamorii incorrectly as B. smithi. As others eluded to, if a few years ago you wanted a B. smithi, then what you wanted was a B. hamorii that was being incorrectly called B. smithi. If a few years ago it was B. annitha you wanted, then it was actually a B. smithi incorrectly called annitha. Yeah a bit confusing definitely.

Just a little, yeah.

It's the one that has the brightest colors that I want. Which is the smithi to me. I could be wrong though.

Is it much easier taking care of one the size above compared to a sling?

 

[cold blood]

Just a little, yeah.

It's the one that has the brightest colors that I want. Which is the smithi to me. I could be wrong though.

Is it much easier taking care of one the size above compared to a sling?

as I said, to the untrained eye, smithi and hamorii would be virtually indistinguishable....literally ALL red legged Brachypelma are brightly colored.

Care for a sling is simple, care for a juvie would be even more so as they can be kept dry at that size.

 

[Isilwen]

as I said, to the untrained eye, smithi and hamorii would be virtually indistinguishable....literally ALL red legged Brachypelma are brightly colored.

It's good then that I am learning the differences so I can get the type of spider that I actually want, no?

To me, the colors aren't as brightly colored on the hamorii. I see a difference between them. Also, the orange on the hamorii doesn't extend down the leg, where as on the smithi, it does go down one more joint. Also, on the smithi, there isn't as much black on the carapace as there is on the hamorii.

Is this correct?

 

[dangerforceidle]

It's good then that I am learning the differences so I can get the type of spider that I actually want, no?

To me, the colors aren't as brightly colored on the hamorii. I see a difference between them. Also, the orange on the hamorii doesn't extend down the leg, where as on the smithi, it does go down one more joint. Also, on the smithi, there isn't as much black on the carapace as there is on the hamorii.

Is this correct?

There is still variation in visual appearance within individuals of each species that can make ID from a photo difficult.

The paper by Mendoza and Francke from 2017 that outlines the revision of Brachypelma red-legged species has the following description.

Although similar in colouration, B. smithi differs from B. hamorii by the absence of a cheliceral band. Additionally, the patella flame pattern is more colourful than in B. hamorii, with brighter orange setae. The lateral setae are yellowish along the length of the legs, while in B. hamorii the same are whitish, providing greater contrast with the darker areas.

No reference to a black mark in the patella, nor the length at with the colours extend down each leg segment.

It can be downloaded here if you register for a free account with the World Spider Catalog. There are reference images in the paper. I would not be 100% confident without checking the spermathecae of a female, but visually you can be somewhat confident.

 

[Isilwen]

No reference to a black mark in the patella, nor the length at with the colours extend down each leg segment.

I was watching a Youtube video of a guy that has both smithi and hamorii and it was he who mentioned the black mark in the patella. I was wrong about which had it though. The hamorii is the one that is supposed to have it and the smithi doesn't. He is also the one that mentioned the orange extending down one more segment from the patella on the smithi.

Here is the video:

 

[Vanisher]

A juvie male would still live well over 5 years...probably double that if its a young juvie.

Theyre generally considered juvies when they start to get adult colors...about 2"....and would be considered a juvie til close to 4"....by 4 they would be cinsidered by most to be a sub adult...keep in mind, these terms are highly subjective.

This

 

[Vanessa]

I only watched part way through that video and it isn't really accurate. Vibrancy can be vastly different depending on where they are in their moult cycle and should never be used as a comparison. Neither should carapace colouring/markings.