H incei communals - do the slings have to come from the same sac?

ThisMeansWAR

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Hi guys! I am receiving four H. incei slings this week and want to attempt building a communal. But two slings are regular incei's and the other two are incei "gold". Will these two get along or do the co-habitants need to be from the same sac? Thanks in advance for any answer :)
 

boina

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They aren't from the same sac? You know that "gold" is a color mutation and if you breed regular with gold (That's NOT a hybrid, because we are still talking the same species here!) you get 50% gold and 50% regular - in one sac. So they may very well be from the same sac.
 

ThisMeansWAR

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Ah! That is very valuable information. I was wondering whether "gold" was just a mutation, a color form, a morph or what it is called. So the answer is "yes" then, it would work fine. IDK whether they are from the same, I can just ask the breeder. Thanks for the answer mate!
 

cold blood

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Yes, its just a recessive gene. I recently paired 2 olives and 25% of the sac was gold.

That said, you are best off housing them individually...incei communals are not forever, they're temporary.
 
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EulersK

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They aren't from the same sac? You know that "gold" is a color mutation and if you breed regular with gold (That's NOT a hybrid, because we are still talking the same species here!) you get 50% gold and 50% regular - in one sac. So they may very well be from the same sac.
Sorry, but that's not true in all cases. Olives can either be AA or Aa, whereas gold is aa.

AA x aa = 100% Aa (olive)
Aa x aa = 50% Aa (olive), 50% aa (gold)

@ThisMeansWAR - ask the dealer if they're from the same sac. If they are, then ask what the parents were. If both parents were olive, then there's a 33% chance each of your olives are AA (meaning no gold babies for you, at least in this generation) and a 66% chance each of your olives are Aa. If one parent was gold, then horrah! Your olives must be Aa, meaning 50% of any slings you eventually get will be gold as well.

For an explanation...
Two olive parents can only yield any gold offspring if both are heterozygotes (i.e. Aa).
Aa x Aa = 25% AA, 50% Aa, 25% aa
Your olives fall into the 75% of olives from that sac, and of that only 33% will be AA while the other 66% will be Aa. They will look identical, but one carries the gold allele and the other does not.

If one parent was gold, then the other parent must be a heterozygote.
Aa x aa = 50% Aa, 50% aa
Even though half of the slings will be olive, they will all carry the gold allele.

But yeah, as has been said, I wouldn't suggest a communal. Not worth the risk in my opinion, but to each their own.
 

Andrea82

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No, they don't have to be sacmates. They will eat strangers as well as sacmates.

Seriously. N.incei communals don't work. If people try it in the Dutch Theraphosidae community they get laughed at.
You'll end up with one big spider eventually.
If you want a communal, try M.balfouri. That is, if you're into OW. ;)
 

ThisMeansWAR

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Wow, thank you for the elite info! EulersK in boss mode... I purchased two that were specifically gold and two regular. I'll ask but I'm thinking I'll take your advice @EulersK and @Andrea82. I just purchased my first OW slings ever, one M balfouri, four H. Maculatas and two P. regalis! Really excited. And a bit nervous.
 

EulersK

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Wow, thank you for the elite info! EulersK in boss mode... I purchased two that were specifically gold and two regular. I'll ask but I'm thinking I'll take your advice @EulersK and @Andrea82. I just purchased my first OW slings ever, one M balfouri, four H. Maculatas and two P. regalis! Really excited. And a bit nervous.
N. incei grow fast - expect MM's within a year and breedable females within 18-24 months. You won't have to wait very long for a breeding pair, is the point.

Very nice OW additions! If those H. mac's are slings, watch out for them. They're some of the most fragile slings I've kept. Prone to random deaths with no apparent explanation. Once they're at 2" though, you're pretty much out of the woods.
 

ThisMeansWAR

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N. incei grow fast - expect MM's within a year and breedable females within 18-24 months. You won't have to wait very long for a breeding pair, is the point.

Very nice OW additions! If those H. mac's are slings, watch out for them. They're some of the most fragile slings I've kept. Prone to random deaths with no apparent explanation. Once they're at 2" though, you're pretty much out of the woods.
Wicked news about the N. incei growth rate! Attempting breeding is definitely on the list. Same with my two P. sazimais, I thought I ordered a juvie (2") female for 50 EUR but got a confirmed sex pair! Looking forward to a breeding attempt there, we need more in the hobby!

Looking forward to trying my husbandry hand on the H. maculatas... They have always been on top of my OW list so now that I found an offer at 2 EUR per sling I had to go for it.


I'm going next level with my collection this week, with 25 sling additions from 15 different species :D :D :D I'm glad my brother works at a Deli, ifyouknowwhatimean
 

Nightstalker47

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Save yourself some money and just buy one if you plan on doing a communal. The end result will be the same. This species is not meant to be kept this way. I've heard of many failed attempts of this...

All Ts are somewhat tolerant of each other in the early stages doesn't mean they should live together permanently. Like others suggested, M. balfouri communals seem to work out pretty good.
 

EulersK

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Wicked news about the N. incei growth rate! Attempting breeding is definitely on the list. Same with my two P. sazimais, I thought I ordered a juvie (2") female for 50 EUR but got a confirmed sex pair! Looking forward to a breeding attempt there, we need more in the hobby!

Looking forward to trying my husbandry hand on the H. maculatas... They have always been on top of my OW list so now that I found an offer at 2 EUR per sling I had to go for it.


I'm going next level with my collection this week, with 25 sling additions from 15 different species :D :D :D I'm glad my brother works at a Deli, ifyouknowwhatimean
Don't expect to use that breeding pair - your male will likely mature long before the female. The term "breeding pair" is generally avoided in this hobby for that reason other than a literal mature pair of tarantulas.

H. mac's were only that much?! I mean, they're cheap here as well, but not that cheap. I would have bought a dozen of them!

But no, I don't know what you mean :sorry: Europeans confuse me.
 

viper69

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Sorry, but that's not true in all cases. Olives can either be AA or Aa, whereas gold is aa.

AA x aa = 100% Aa (olive)
Aa x aa = 50% Aa (olive), 50% aa (gold)

@ThisMeansWAR - ask the dealer if they're from the same sac. If they are, then ask what the parents were. If both parents were olive, then there's a 33% chance each of your olives are AA (meaning no gold babies for you, at least in this generation) and a 66% chance each of your olives are Aa. If one parent was gold, then horrah! Your olives must be Aa, meaning 50% of any slings you eventually get will be gold as well.

For an explanation...
Two olive parents can only yield any gold offspring if both are heterozygotes (i.e. Aa).
Aa x Aa = 25% AA, 50% Aa, 25% aa
Your olives fall into the 75% of olives from that sac, and of that only 33% will be AA while the other 66% will be Aa. They will look identical, but one carries the gold allele and the other does not.

If one parent was gold, then the other parent must be a heterozygote.
Aa x aa = 50% Aa, 50% aa
Even though half of the slings will be olive, they will all carry the gold allele.

But yeah, as has been said, I wouldn't suggest a communal. Not worth the risk in my opinion, but to each their own.
Nice to see someone else drop some science for a change ;)
 

viper69

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It's generally thought that slings from the same sac do better in a group than slings from unrelated sacs.
 

Andrea82

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Don't expect to use that breeding pair - your male will likely mature long before the female. The term "breeding pair" is generally avoided in this hobby for that reason other than a literal mre pair of tarantulas.

H. mac's were only that much?! I mean, they're cheap here as well, but not that cheap. I would have bought a dozen of them!

But no, I don't know what you mean :sorry: Europeans confuse me.

Actually, if you buy a 'breeding pair' here, you get a female with a much younger male. So in essence, a good shot at actually mating that pair. Don't know how that works in Norway though.

And about the 'Deli' pun...were you awake? :D

And what exactly is so confusing about Europeans? I'll be happy to fill you in :smug::smug:
 

EulersK

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Actually, if you buy a 'breeding pair' here, you get a female with a much younger male. So in essence, a good shot at actually mating that pair. Don't know how that works in Norway though.

And about the 'Deli' pun...were you awake? :D

And what exactly is so confusing about Europeans? I'll be happy to fill you in :smug::smug:
Yeah, here in the States, it very common to buy find a "breeding pair" of juveniles that are exactly the same size. Usually of the same sac. A shady business practices in my mind. I know that it's possible to slow a male down enough, but even then the female will be a young adult when the male matures. Good to know that they've got it right over there.

Hey, it's my Friday at work, get off me :rofl: As for confusing, it's mostly the metric system. Makes Americans angry.
 

Andrea82

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Yeah, here in the States, it very common to buy find a "breeding pair" of juveniles that are exactly the same size. Usually of the same sac. A shady business practices in my mind. I know that it's possible to slow a male down enough, but even then the female will be a young adult when the male matures. Good to know that they've got it right over there.

Hey, it's my Friday at work, get off me :rofl: As for confusing, it's mostly the metric system. Makes Americans angry.
That IS shady, and not just in your mind. What good is buying a 'breeding pair' if you can't breed them?!
Sounds like a way to dump unwanted males.

Ah...the evil metric system....of course it makes you angry. Everybody knows it was especially invented to annoy you and create Armageddon for the US....:angelic:
 

ThisMeansWAR

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I know that it's possible to slow a male down enough, but even then the female will be a young adult when the male matures. Good to know that they've got it right over there.
I was thinking of slowing the male down with lower temperature and less food, while the opposite for the female. We'll see how it goes!
 
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