Growth Rates

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Arachnosquire
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Hey people,

I'm new here, but not new to tarantulas...been keeping them for about 5 years now. Anyway, I just need to clarify something...

When species are decribed as "fast growers," is this refering to the frequency of molts or the growth increase after each molt? Does this make sence? For example. Rosehairs grow slow, but Poecilotheria grow fast. Does this mean more molts in a given timespan for the Pokie, or are they both the same, but the Rosehair grows less after molting. Thanks for any input...sorry if this question is confusing. :)
 

P. Novak

ArachnoGod
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I think it refers to both, the time between molts and the growth after a molt. Basically all it means is fast growers mature faster then slower growers.
 

Cirith Ungol

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but a high moult frequency would imply that there is a large body size increase over a shorter time than with a species with low moult frequency. It's also a bit misleading depending on what species we're talking about. If you compare a blondi to a P. murinus you'll see that both moult relatively quickly, but since the P. murinus is rather smallish and a blondi will become one of the biggest T's arround it may feel more obvious saying that the blondi has a larger bodymass increase, but thinking in percent it might just be the other way arround.
 

Talkenlate04

ArachnoGod
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Your not wrong...... but I think it would be the same rule for each species.
So OBTs mature fast, and they do gain size for them quickly. And molt frequently.
With Blondi they also grow quick and put on big size with each molt.
I guess its just perspective.
Roseas grow slower then Brachys. and they hit about the same size in the end, so what would you say about that? Brachys put on more size each molt or molt more?
 

Cirith Ungol

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Your not wrong...... but I think it would be the same rule for each species.
So OBTs mature fast, and they do gain size for them quickly. And molt frequently.
With Blondi they also grow quick and put on big size with each molt.
I guess its just perspective.
Roseas grow slower then Brachys. and they hit about the same size in the end, so what would you say about that? Brachys put on more size each molt or molt more?
Then comes the problem of temperature, feeding, male/female, you name it...

But to the original question (after having another think at it) - I'd prefer calling fast growth when a T reaches maturity fast, not nessessarily how much they grow or how often they moult.
 

Talkenlate04

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Then comes the problem of temperature, feeding, male/female, you name it...

But to the original question (after having another think at it) - I'd prefer calling fast growth when a T reaches maturity fast, not nessessarily how much they grow or how often they moult.
Ok then how would you determine maturity?
I have had B. Smithi at a tad below 4.5" drop a sac, and I have two 5.5"+ females with sacs now.... both made babies..... so is one more mature then the other? Or is maturity a matter of being able to reproduce altogether?
 

Cirith Ungol

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Ok then how would you determine maturity?
I have had B. Smithi at a tad below 4.5" drop a sac, and I have two 5.5"+ females with sacs now.... both made babies..... so is one more mature then the other? Or is maturity a matter of being able to reproduce altogether?
Being able to reproduce. It's the same with humans, isn't it (actually one of the few things that's the same hehe) a short person can be just as mature as a tall one ;)
 

Talkenlate04

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Being able to reproduce. It's the same with humans, isn't it (actually one of the few things that's the same hehe) a short person can be just as mature as a tall one ;)
Ahh but a short person and a tall person can be the same age...... that is not the case with Ts................... You look at a 3"T of a species and a 6" T of the same species and they will never be the same age.
 

Cirith Ungol

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Ahh but a short person and a tall person can be the same age...... that is not the case with Ts................... You look at a 3"T of a species and a 6" T of the same species and they will never be the same age.
Hehe.
Luckily you havn't mixed in maturity in your question, otherwise I'd have to think a little longer. :D

For the above I can say that I have 3 parahybana males which are brothers. One was fed as much as he wanted and matured 1½ years ago. One of them moulted few days ago and he's still not mature. The mature male is larger than the immature one. They are obviously the same age.
 

Talkenlate04

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Hehe.
Luckily you havn't mixed in maturity in your question, otherwise I'd have to think a little longer. :D

For the above I can say that I have 3 parahybana males which are brothers. One was fed as much as he wanted and matured 1½ years ago. One of them moulted few days ago and he's still not mature. The mature male is larger than the immature one. They are obviously the same age.
But you restricted food intake to one so thats not an accurate compairson. Plus I assumed we were talking females........... but I guess what you are saying applys to females as well.

But even so I see what you are getting at. OBTs do the same thing. I have one that matured in 14 months and one that took 19 months same sac same hatch out date.
 

Cirith Ungol

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A malnourished human doesn't grow as big or strong (if you will) as a well nourished one. That's why we're concentrating so much on children eating well.
:)

Females, males, both will mature eventually (only at different rates) compared within their gender it still applies as my example shows.

Seems we are tying it down to food intake beeing a major factor here, can't be sure though if reproductive age in malnourished humans is known, but (moving it even further from T's) and even slightly off the original premise - women with severe anorexia will not menstruate. (How off topic can we be :D)

Well well... let's leave it here, unless you can come up with some 100% T angle at this because otherwise we'll clearly degress way too much. ;)
 

Alice

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yes it does. a well fed poecilotheria female can reach breeding size and thus maturity in let's say 2.5 years. a slower growing brachy will reach breeding size in about 5 years. i think size and number of molts correspond, and the faster a species molts (though vary for the individual). the faster it grows, the faster it reaches maturity.

females that are allover smaller than their brethren from the same sac will apparantly still breed at about the same number of molts. that is not first hand experience though, but what my breeder told me.
 

Cirith Ungol

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Ok so back on topic........ Does faster growth equal faster maturity?
Alice said:
yes it does. a well fed poecilotheria female can reach breeding size and thus maturity in let's say 2.5 years. a slower growing brachy will reach breeding size in about 5 years. i think size and number of molts correspond, and the faster a species molts (though vary for the individual). the faster it grows, the faster it reaches maturity.
And in case of my male parahybana that was certainly true too.
 

Drachenjager

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and then there is g. rosea that sometimes seems to molt to a smaller size than before lol
 

ratz00

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I bought 3 rosea slings last January 2 . All three come from the same eggsac. All three had moulted 3 times before I bought them. ( yup, the seller keeps track, lol. ) All 3 were relatively the same size when I got them, about 1.5 cm. All three have moulted every 30 days, giving each a total of 6 moults or 6th instar ( 3 moults with the seller, 3 molts with me.) . All 3 have been fed as much as they want to since I got them. Diets are all the same. At the point of this writing, rosea sling 1 and rosea sling 2 are of the same size 4.5cm + LS. Rosea sling 2 is just 3.5 + cm LS.

The same time I bought these 3 roseas, I also bought a .75cm LS A. geniculata. It had moulted once when I got it It was also given the same diet and eat all you can type feeding. This geniculata has moulted an average of every 22 days. In fact it just moulted this April 22. It would have been its 6th molt or instar. My A. geniculata now has a legspan of 6cm.

My country is Tropical and it's now the middle of summer. We only have 2 seasons in the Philippines, rainy and dry...
Given the above, Chilean roses, have less frequency molting than giant White knees. This also includes body mass increase per molt. This only leads me to conclude that fast growing means both frequency in molts and body mass increase. IMO this makes sense because an exuvium can only stretch for a given size, meaning a frequently significant increase in body mass, also means more frequent molts... Again just my .02, but hope this helps.

P.S. I just bought another .75 LS A. geniculata last Feb. 17. So far it has moulted twice. It now sports a 2.3cm LS...

:) :) :)
 
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