Got snakes?

[Sheri]

It's good you know your limitations. No one should do anything they are not confident about. Although, I always find it really sad when I hear of venomous keepers that retire because of age catching up to them.

That's just an outlet for my own issues with mortality, I guess, but still sad.

 

[The Snark]

You know you are getting old when...
You have been an amatuer herpetologist your entire life, but when a friend offfers you your choice of dozens of baby cobras to take home, you turn him down outright without a second thought.
(I might take him up on the offer if my SO gets too out of hand)

It's odd, and a good reason for introspection. I recall at the nature center 'injecting' rats into the rattler containments. Sometimes a dozen rattlers looking up in my face, the rats often struck multiple times before they hit the floor. But I never felt the tension and anxiety like I do now just going in a cobra confinement area. Can I reverse the tables here and call it 'young age immortality syndrome' (stupidity)?

 

[The Snark]

Hey cobra fanatics! A question.

A question nobody around here has been able to satisfactorally answer.

All the cobras at the reptile farms slowly turn a predominantly blackish color after about a year old, including the kings. They are quite healthy and normal in all other aspects.
But the kings that I have seen out in the wild around here are brown, sometimes even a rich golden tan. Why the color difference?

The two thoughts that come to my mind are they are in contact with bare soil much more often in captivity, or the proximity to concrete. But the younger snakes that remain almost entirely arboreal show traits of developing the blackish color.

Here is a king about 1 year old. Notice towards the tail the black rings of the adolescent while the front of the body is becoming a uniform very dark brown. He is still (obviously) arboreal.

Another question. When moving about in trees, some snakes, including the cobra, 'hunch up'. In this picture you can clearly see the animals spine ridge. When relaxed in the tree, or on the ground, they are rounded and the spine ridge isn't visible. Why? How does this hunching up aid in their movement while in trees, or does it?

 

[scottyk]

A question nobody around here has been able to satisfactorally answer.

All the cobras at the reptile farms slowly turn a predominantly blackish color after about a year old, including the kings. They are quite healthy and normal in all other aspects.
But the kings that I have seen out in the wild around here are brown, sometimes even a rich golden tan. Why the color difference?

?

Are the captives on display, and exposed to more sunlight than a reclusive wild snake would be? That could be what's causing them to darken. Lemon Shark researchers in the caribbean noticed a similar darkening on juveniles that they corralled in shallow waters to study. I should be pretty easy to set up an experiment there to see if there is a correlation....

 

[The Snark]

Are the captives on display, and exposed to more sunlight than a reclusive wild snake would be? That could be what's causing them to darken. Lemon Shark researchers in the caribbean noticed a similar darkening on juveniles that they corralled in shallow waters to study. I should be pretty easy to set up an experiment there to see if there is a correlation....

The opposite. Once mature they are removed from the tree enclosure you see in that photo and are protected from the sun to keep them from getting baked. They lie in the sun on the branches out of choice.
Do you think that could be it? They might have more opportunity while adolescent to get sun which starts the darkening process?
Let me think. In the wild they are in grassland and jungle areas and would spend much of their time hunting. Their prey would often stay out of the sun, seeking protected shelter.
(I'm taking into account that I have seen numerous kings out during the day so they aren't nescessarily nocturnal.) Definitely sounds like time for an experiment. I'll see if I can get some babies raised up in a low light environment.
(First you guys got me de-ticking these critters. Now I may end up having to help build a new enclosure)

 

[Crotalus]

Infant yellow banded krait.

Thats a good way to get bit if you hold it like that. The fingers should be close to the head so the snake cant turn and tag your fingers.

/Lelle

 

[Crotalus]

I don't suffer from the delusion that a cobra would make a good pet. They are one of the more tempremental snakes and do not change even after years in captivity. You can never trust them. I've seen cobras that have been docile and laconic for months suddenly take umbrage to a humans presence and strike at cage or terrarium walls repeatedly until they damage themselves.
At the local snake farm an Isan spitter that has been there for years recently struck at the safety glass so hard in an attempt to zap a passing human that it cracked the glass.

PS You might also keep in mind a fully mature king cobra can grow to 5 meters long. You would need one very large terrarium.

I kept atra and if you know what you doing they make excellent terrarium animals. They eat, shed and <edit> without problems.
Especially atra is quite feisty while other species of Naja can be quite docile especially as adults. I must in all honesty say the way snakes are kept in snake parks in Asia (Ive been to Thailand and seen it) are usually not so good which could effect the temperament to some extend until they are almost dead and calm again...
King cobras are a different story. They are snake eaters and do not acclimatise well to terrarium conditions
Just my 0.2 cents...
.

 

[Crotalus]

I have intervied several unusual cobra strike victims around Thailand. It seems children are the most common victim.
Pa, at age 4 to 6 was struck in the face by what was believed to be a monocellate. The zygomatic bone (cheek) was completely caved in and had to be reconstructed. At 22 years old the scar and bone displacement was still clearly visible. No envenomation occurred.
Tan, at age 4 was struck by a king cobra at about the middle of his humerus (upper arm). At a guess he suffered a greenstick fracture. His parents were unable to seek medical attention. He was 30+ when I examined his arm. The deviation from a badly healed old fracture was readily apparent. No envenomation occurred.
Choo, at age 3 was struck where the ulna meets the carpus by a 'cobra'. He lost motion in his hand for nearly a year and still, at the age of 40, has limited range of motion. (Due to the extended initial debility I suspect some ligaments were torn completely free from the bones or were severed.) The bones were never x-rayed. Whether the injury was confined to connective tissue or if he suffered from fracture(s) is unknown. No envenomation was noted.


From observation. A cobra strikes from a verticle plane. That is, the front part of it's body is raised vertically with the rest of the body coiled or extended. When it strikes it tenses the muscles running down the length of it's body. This normally produces the distinctive downward and forward strike. Occasionally, especially when the animal's body is mostly extended on the ground in the opposite direction it is striking, a large portion of the body straightens out and becomes rigid in what has been called an extended strike. So essentially what you have is a pole taking a downward swing. Keep in mind, that pole can be up to 10 feet long or so, can weigh more than 20 pounds (sometimes a lot more) and can move, as one expert described, at the speed of a swung baseball bat.
Why envenomation doesn't always happen. The strike of the cobra is in a downward arc, pivoting from where it's body meets the ground, or in the case of an extended strike, it's body describes a long curve. The motion is always in a downward direction to some degree. The cobra with mouth wide open has it's fangs pointing roughly forward. As it's head describes the arc the fangs point more and more downwards. Naturally, any object beyond the arc the fangs are describing will be missed or struck by the nose or top of the cobras head.
Don't underestimate that head for delivering force. This mature king's head I estimated around 3 1/2 inches across. The hood at the broadest that you can see here is about six inches across.

What do you mean by "no envenomation occured" ? Its quite obvoius that the victims have been envenomated if their limbs are disfigured. Kaouthia have aswell as neurotoxin also hemotoxin which destroys the tissue (like a typical rattlesnake bite)

Cobras fake most of their bite, they strike up/down movement and often with closed mouth. That is almost allways enough do discourage a attacker. All venomous snakes have drybites (with a few exceptions such as black mambas). But dont count on a drybite.

 

[The Snark]

What do you mean by "no envenomation occured" ? Its quite obvoius that the victims have been envenomated if their limbs are disfigured. Kaouthia have aswell as neurotoxin also hemotoxin which destroys the tissue (like a typical rattlesnake bite)

Cobras fake most of their bite, they strike up/down movement and often with closed mouth. That is almost allways enough do discourage a attacker. All venomous snakes have drybites (with a few exceptions such as black mambas). But dont count on a drybite.

Exactly. They were 'fake bites' yet struck hard enough to fracture bones.

 

[Crotalus]

Exactly. They were 'fake bites' yet struck hard enough to fracture bones.

Im pretty sure its not enough to fracture any bones. Its the venom that makes all the damage in a cobra bite. Offcourse fractures of the limbs might occur if the person panics, stumbles and fall after he got tagged. But not by a bite.