Genus Phoneutria - Basics about captive care and a brief look into the different species

[Outpost31Survivor]

Big spider, big 'tude. Sadly one of the most maligned venomous spiders in the world.

 

[Stefan2209]

I know that vid and also the others from him. Not smart imho but i think he "kind of" knows what he's doing and i guess if he'd have get tagged he at least hadn't blamed the spider.

I find the end of this clip quite funny though. As soon as the lady starts to get crabby he's very fast to end the video. I wonder if he knew that the spider could have got him at any time if it had wanted.

 

[Nich]

Holy thread resurrection batman! Keep it rolling, I know there are alot more of these in the hobby right now than there were in 09' lol

 

[Arthroverts]

My heart was in my mouth when it went for his finger, whoa! He shouldn't have been messing with it like that I think though; almost deserved the scare he got.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[lostbrane]

Was he not tagged? I would have thought for sure that he would have been at the end there.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I know that vid and also the others from him. Not smart imho but i think he "kind of" knows what he's doing and i guess if he'd have get tagged he at least hadn't blamed the spider.

I find the end of this clip quite funny though. As soon as the lady starts to get crabby he's very fast to end the video. I wonder if he knew that the spider could have got him at any time if it had wanted.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0036-46652000000100003&lng=en&tlng=en



Brazilian Wandering Spiders (aranhas armadeiras), Phoneutria nigriventer, P. keyserlingi and P. fera, are sometimes said to have the world's most toxic spider venom – probably based on a well publicized study where mice were killed by intravenous injection of as little as 0.006 mg of venom. Since I'm a man, not a mouse, that doesn't worry me much. Authoritative sources state that over 7,000 authentic cases of human bites from these spiders have been recorded, with only around 10 known deaths, and about 2% of cases serious enough to need antivenom. So despite the surprisingly large number of bites, this spider is not exactly public enemy number one either.

Most medical conditions blamed on spiders by physicians lack confirmation that any actual spider was involved in the case. Spider bites of all kinds are rare events (as opposed to other bites and medical conditions that get wrongly blamed on spiders). Although it is possible for a spider bite to cause death, that is a very unlikely outcome and does not happen in enough cases to justify calling any spider "deadly."


https://www.burkemuseum.org/collect...ology-and-entomology/spider-myths/myth-deadly


Yeah, he should respect that spider because it's dangerous and super aggressive when threatened but this species has gained alot of hype for being one of the most venomous in the world which the internet has nurtured too however it doesn't deserve to be regarded as deadly, dangerous yes, but not deadly. That individual in the video knows this! Hobbyists should respect it as it were a deadly spider but in reality it's just potentially dangerous.

More links of interest:

Worldwide, there are approximately 40,000 described spider species, most of which use venom to subdue prey. Of these, very few are medically important to people. Before 2000, spiders were estimated to be responsible for fewer than 200 deaths per year globally (Nentwig and Kuhn-Nentwig 2013). Per million people, spiders killed between 0.02 and 0.04 people per year. In comparison, snakes and scorpions respectively caused 20 and 0.1-1.4 fatalities per million people each year. The most medically important spiders include the widow spiders (Latrodectus, Theridiidae), the recluse spiders (Loxosceles, Sicariidae), the Australian funnel-web spiders (Atrax and Hadronyche, Hexathelidae) and armed spiders (Phoneutria, Ctenidae) (Vetter and Isbister 2008). In the past three decades, there have not been any confirmed fatalities due to envenomation by widow spiders, Australian funnel-web spiders or armed spiders (Nentwig and Kuhn-Nentwig 2013). Among the recluse spiders, bites are easily misdiagnosed, making it difficult to determine figures regarding their bites. Despite the low frequency of fatalities attributed to these taxa around the world, bites from species in these groups, including Phoneutria,can be serious and often require medical treatment.

As with other spiders of medical importance, venom is injected into prey or defensively into potential predators through the fangs (Figure 9). Venom is produced by glands located in the chelicerae (structures on the face, immediately above the fangs). The venom of Phoneutria spiders consists of a mixture of proteins and peptides that are active against the nervous systems of both invertebrates and vertebrates (Gomez et al. 2002). Among species in the genus, venom composition and potency vary, with Phoneutria nigriventer and Phoneutria keyserlingi having particularly potent venoms (Vetter and Hillebrecht 2008). While these and other Phoneutria species are primarily associated with forested habitats, Phoneutria nigriventer and Phoneutria keyserlingi can occupy habitats in rural and urban areas. Both species also are frequently found inside human dwellings, where they prey on cockroaches and other pest arthropods. As a result, bites from these and other Phoneutria species are common. For example, in 2006, 2,687 cases of envenomation were treated in Brazil alone (Bucaretchi et al. 2008).

Figure 9. Close up of fangs, chelicerae (note reddish hairs) and palps of Phoneutria species. Photograph by Lawrence Reeves, University of Florida.

Over the past 100 years, 10 fatalities have been attributed to Phoneutria spiders, mostly among young people (Nentwig and Kuhn-Nentwig 2013). In comparison, similar numbers of fatalities are reported for the widow spiders and Australian funnel-web spiders. While cases of mortality are known, in the majority of cases (90%), Phoneutria envenomation is considered to be mild and only 0.5-3.3% are diagnosed as severe or systemic (Bucaretchi et al. 2008). The effects of envenomation include severe pain, elevated heart rate, arterial hypertension, cardiac distress, shock, muscle tremors, priapism and frequent vomiting (Gomez et al. 2002). These symptoms can be particularly pronounced in children. In Brazil, moderate and severe cases (about 3% of cases) of envenomation are treated with anti-venom but are otherwise treated symptomatically (Bucaretchi et al. 2016).

Envenomation by Phoneutria spiders is a reasonable concern only within their native range. These species are common in forested habitats, but also will occupy populated and agricultural areas, bringing them into contact with humans. Accidents are particularly common in banana plantations, where the spiders often seek shelter in bunches of bananas during the day. This behavior enables their accidental importation into areas outside of their natural Neotropical distribution. Phoneutria species have been intercepted in Europe and North America (Vetter and Hillebrecht 2008, Vetter et al. 2014). Of the Phoneutria species, Phoneutria boliviensis is the most common spider intercepted in international shipments, in part because it is the species with the widest distribution. Many banana and other agricultural shipments originate in Central America, where this species occurs.

Compared to other Phoneutria species, the venom of Phoneutria boliviensis is less potent, and envenomations are typically mild (Vetter and Hillebrecht 2008). The Phoneutria species with the most potent venoms, Phoneutria nigriventer and Phoneutria keyserlingi, are not widely exported because they occur in Brazil, where much of the country’s banana crop is consumed locally. In addition, most other Phoneutria species occur in regions of Brazil or the Amazon that are sparsely populated and produce few internationally traded products. Vetter and Hillebrecht (2008) also caution against the misidentification of Phoneutria with the essentially harmless genus, Cupiennius. Cupiennius share some morphological characters with Phoneutria, including a large body size and red hairs on the chelicerae (in some species). Like Phoneutria, they are common in agricultural settings, particularly banana plantations.

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/URBAN/SPIDERS/armed_spider.html

The dangers associated with these spiders for North Americans are very much overexaggerated. First, the most cited dangerous species is Phoneutria fera. This is actually an Amazonian species, (i.e., it lives in the Brazilian Amazon) far from areas of human commerce and the Brazilian banana plantations and, therefore, they don’t have the opportunity to be transported in cargo, or at least are highly unlikely to be so moved. In Germany from decades ago, specimens listed as imported P. fera were most likely misidentified specimens of other Phoneutria species. (One must also keep in mind that Phoneutria taxonomy has been a nightmare for the last century with new species being named and other names being absorbed by other existing species, back and forth almost like an Abbott and Costello comedy routine. It is really difficult sometimes to pin down a name because for some spider groups, the taxonomy is not yet settled). The spiders intercepted in Germany were most likely specimens of P. nigriventer and P. keyserlingi, which are only found on the Atlantic coast of Brazil and are mostly involved in Brazilian envenomations. All three of these spiders can get up to 50 mm in body length. However, they still are not nearly as deadly as people claim. In one study of 422 Phoneutria bites in coastal Brazil, only 2.3% of the victims required antivenom and the only death was one small child. Although there is an obvious major concern when children are bitten, most bite victims experienced minor problems without long-lasting effects and certainly not death. Most of the bites were in adults; minor symptoms resolved without complications.

Although these large spiders were transported in bananas to Europe many years ago, currently, Brazil consumes almost all of its banana crop domestically so now there is less chance for the spiders to be transported out of the country, at least in fruit.

On the west coast of South America, another species, P. boliviensis, exists and has occasionally been transported in cargo to North America (mostly from Ecuador). However, in comparison to its eastern relatives, this species is smaller (30 mm body length) and its envenomation effects are milder. A paper on bites in plantation workers revealed annoying symptoms but no deaths. Workers missed 2 to 3 days of work. So even if these spiders were transported to North America, they are not considered very dangerous and should not cause concern.

To summarize:

1. The dangerous species of Phoneutria are found in the Amazon where interaction with people is rare and transport out of the country in commerce is highly unlikely.
2. The two species associated with high human population on the eastern Brazilian coast cause human envenomations but are not as dangerous as they are reported to be. Although they can cause death in young children, most bite victims experience mild reactions.
3. Brazil no longer exports much of their banana crop.
4. The western South American species of Phoneutria is much smaller than the eastern species and although sometimes is transported, it is not a major medical concern when bites occur.
5. All Phoneutria species are virtually restricted to South America. If a spider is found in a banana shipment from Central America, then it is highly unlikely to be a Phoneutria spider (see next section)

https://spiders.ucr.edu/deadly-banana-spider-or-not

 

[Tarantula155]

Yeah, from the reports.. it seems Loxosceles is the monster under the bed down in Latin America. I'd much rather get bit by a Phoneutria than a Loxosceles laeta even with the dry bites aside

 

[Arthroverts]

I would still say that Phoneutria should be regarded with the utmost caution. When it comes to potentially fatal species, comparison between species and genera can be very dangerous.
Otherwise, I'd say that you are absolutely right in saying that these are not public enemies, rather being used by the media to create a fear of arachnids most of the time. They should still command respect however.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I would still say that Phoneutria should be regarded with the utmost caution. When it comes to potentially fatal species, comparison between species and genera can be very dangerous.
Otherwise, I'd say that you are absolutely right in saying that these are not public enemies, rather being used by the media to create a fear of arachnids most of the time. They should still command respect however.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

True, they need to be respected but they don't deserve to be vilified as deadly either (as in a "jumping fanged cyanide capsule"). There are even handling videos on youtube (not at all recommended) but when handled properly they aren't the venom dripping monsters most of us perceive them to be. Just be careful with them and don't handle them.

Handling of a P.boliviensis or P.nigriventer:

 

[The Snark]

Big spider, big 'tude. Sadly one of the most maligned venomous spiders in the world.

Why can't people keep things in context instead of building a major melodrama?
Deaths from motor vehicle accidents each year: 1,350,000 (WHO)
Deaths from snake bites each year: 81,000 - 130,000 (WHO)
Injuries from lightning strikes per year: ~240,000. Deaths: ~5,500-6,200 (Aggregate)
Deaths from spider bites each year: ~5-15 (Est. Aggregate)

 

[Darkchrist31]

Any idea on how hardy are the slings in absence of food and water? I ordered some P. Fera slings-juv and have yet to receive them after 16 days in transit, I'm abit worried.

 

[Richard123]

Any idea on how hardy are the slings in absence of food and water? I ordered some P. Fera slings-juv and have yet to receive them after 16 days in transit, I'm abit worried.

16 days man? thats quite a lot, I had some slings barely 1", ac went off 1 day and 2 of them died, depends on how good of a packaging job they did. also they shouldn't go a over s week without feeding.

 

[ForTW]

16 days man? thats quite a lot, I had some slings barely 1", ac went off 1 day and 2 of them died, depends on how good of a packaging job they did. also they shouldn't go a over s week without feeding.

He created a thread and they all came in fine. Anyways, this is probably not the place to ask such questions.

They are quite hardy imo

Phoneutria depilata sling
Can go without watering for a week with ease.

 

[theamazingspiderman]

I am moving and can't keep my phoneutria sp, I was going to try sell it, but was wondering if it is legal to do so in the US. Appreciate any advice.

 

[curtisgiganteus]

I am moving and can't keep my phoneutria sp, I was going to try sell it, but was wondering if it is legal to do so in the US. Appreciate any advice.

I’ve seen P. fera advertised in classifieds, so it shouldn’t be a problem. But don’t quite me on it. I would be an interested buyer if the outcome is positive however

 

[theamazingspiderman]

I’ve seen P. fera advertised in classifieds, so it shouldn’t be a problem. But don’t quite me on it. I would be an interested buyer if the outcome is positive however

ok thanks for the feedback, I'm still getting rid of it, hit me up if you are interested.

 

[Taffy]

ok thanks for the feedback, I'm still getting rid of it, hit me up if you are interested.

you’re in the USA and have P. fera availabile?

 

[theamazingspiderman]

you’re in the USA and have P. fera availabile?

Yes, I have kept a few of these specimens, they are not that hard to take care of.

 

[ForTW]

Yes, I have kept a few of these specimens, they are not that hard to take care of.

Do you have any pictures? They are misidentified quite often but i'd love to get some overseas!

 

[Taffy]

Do you have any pictures? They are misidentified quite often but i'd love to get some overseas!

i messaged him, and he sent me pics of it. it’s definitely phoneutria fera