Fun with a venomous friend!

[Bengal21]

I agree that most snakes can't tell the difference, but if you never had a snake that didn't prefer live, you haven't kept enough snakes in my opinion.

Later, Tom

I've had plenty that wanted live at first and were resistant to switching to F/T. Some are tougher than others. They just aren't used to F/T in most cases and need to be coaxed.
What the snake wants is really irrelevant. It's our responsibility to do what's SAFEST and HEALTHIEST for the animal, which in this case is provide it with non-dangerous, parasite-free food. Lets be honest. Most snakes would like to crawl into the back yard and vanish on a hot summer day if you let them. A five year old would probably like a steady diet of candy and pop but I'm pretty sure you don't give that to them because it's not healthy.

Hots are another story, which I confess, I forgot this thread was about...but non-venomous...Zero reason to feed live. Zero. Like I said, I've been keeping snakes for 17 years. That doesn't make me an expert but you saying the snake "wants" it so give it to them is pretty stupid logic. Your snake wants to get out of its cage and curl up anywhere warm in the house it finds itself so lets do whats healthy for the snake rather than what it "wants":wall::wall::wall:

 

[Talkenlate04]

I could show you a thousand snakes that ate live and a thousand that ate F/T and you couldn't tell me the difference in any of them if you didn't know which were which, other than maybe the wounds on the ones that were fed live.

Lol why do you assume snakes that are fed live have wounds? That is a silly assumption. I could show you my whole collection, and all the snakes I feed at the shop and you could not pick out the f/t or live eaters ether.

The fact remains snakes are designed to kill and eat things. Will most take f/t?, Yes they will, but that does not make it a healthier snake. Feeding live does not equal an unhealthy snake riddled with wounds and scars ether, and it also does not mean I am somehow putting my snakes life at risk. To think otherwise is just silly.

 

[apopli]

Lol why do you assume snakes that are fed live have wounds? That is a silly assumption. I could show you my whole collection, and all the snakes I feed at the shop and you could not pick out the f/t or live eaters ether.

The fact remains snakes are designed to kill and eat things. Will most take f/t?, Yes they will, but that does not make it a healthier snake. Feeding live does not equal an unhealthy snake riddled with wounds and scars ether, and it also does not mean I am somehow putting my snakes life at risk. To think otherwise is just silly.

No, what's silly is thinking there is no risk. Even if it's relatively minimal, the risk still exists. There's nothing "natural" about keeping a snake in a rack (tank, rubbermaid, etc, no matter how "natural" the setup is made to look), and there's nothing "natural" about trapping a prey animal inside an enclosed environment where it has no means of escape.

It's also not so nice to the animals being fed. Rodents aren't oblivious to what's going on and are actually frighteningly intelligent creatures. I kept pet rats for a number of years, and one group I kept were litter trained, and performed tricks to various whistles. They were taught to retrieve things (if something fell behind the fridge or stove - if it was too large to carry they'd actually "team up" and push it out), and perform silly tricks (they'd dance, put a tiny ball in a tiny cup, all sorts of ridiculous things). They performed and learned just as quickly for praise as they did for food. They learned very very quickly and required little repetition to recall them.

Don't get me wrong. I've kept snakes for many years and have no issues with feeding them rodents. Cows are also interesting and intelligent creatures, but I have no hangups about eating burgers. But I don't eat those live either. lol

Feeding live, stunned, or f/t is a personal choice. Maybe nothing's happened, and maybe nothing ever will. They're your snakes, and it's your choice, and I don't think anybody is terribly concerned with talking you out of it. You're obviously an experienced keeper to manage at staying alive while maintaining healthy venomous species. lol

New people just coming into the hobby, however, need to understand that there IS a risk (rodents and rabbits have big teeth that cause puncture wounds, which aren't always visible), it's NOT the safest option for your snake, and if you don't know what to watch out for once you drop the critter in with the snake, you could be losing an expensive pet to a cheap feeder. Live feeding, if you're going to do it, should only be done by the experienced.

On a more "on topic" note, that guy you posted pics of is absolutely gorgeous. I'm a boa & python kind of girl, so I don't recognize the species, but he's good lookin!

And to the OP - Leucism kinda freaks me out! There's something eerie about it. lol. Lovely little one, though. Is he always that feisty or did you have to coax him up like that?

 

[Talkenlate04]

No, what's silly is thinking there is no risk. Even if it's relatively minimal, the risk still exists.

You crack me up. Show me where I say there is no risk. Ohhh wait thats right, I never said such a thing. Risk and risking life are two drastically different things. Please refer back to post #24 if you would like to see where I acknowledge the risk.

It's also not so nice to the animals being fed.

Strange this really does not bother me. I raise my feeder rats, I let them out and play with them, I name some, and I have no qualms with picking up Suzie and throwing her in with a snake. Call me messed up, but that rat only existed to feed my snake and it does not bug me one bit lol. I do however still maintain my thought that if a owner does what they should a live feeding will NEVER result in death.

Is he always that feisty or did you have to coax him up like that?

That is the funny thing, it was really really hard to get him to hood up. This guy was beyond passive. It is almost worse that way because you get a little bit lulled into a sense of safety that I'd rather not be in at all around them.

 

[odiakkoh]

I do however still maintain my thought that if a owner does what they should a live feeding will NEVER result in death.

LIES! Unless you're telling me your snakes poop out live rats

Sorry couldn't resist ;P

 

[apopli]

I do however still maintain my thought that if a owner does what they should a live feeding will NEVER result in death.

This touches on a point I tried, and apparently failed, to get across. New owners often don't do as they should. If a person can't recognize that a snake isn't hungry, or they buy some half starved aggressive feeder animal, and just toss the two in a tank together, problems can result.

Others live feeding their snakes doesn't bother me. Not my snake. I don't do it, and I never will for various reasons (most of which have to do with practicality rather than emotional reasons - I've raised and slaughtered cows and chickens, I hunt and fish, same concept really). If asked, especially by those new to the hobby, I recommend f/t because it's safer. Not just for the potential of injury to the snake, but a stack of frozen critters from a reputable feeder dealer are going to be more healthy (and often cheaper) than something dug out of a lot of feeder bins (course you raise your own, so that wouldn't apply to you). If you've been doing it, and you've been successful, and you know what you're doing, good on you. I simply think it's important for newbies to become familiar with snake care and behaviour, and to have a somewhat healthy respect for the rodent's potential, before taking up the practice, is all.

Being truly totally opposed to live feeding is a little silly. There are specimen, especially w/c (ball pythons come to mind), that won't take f/t, or even fresh killed/stunned, prey. But most c/b snakes will. The decision has to be an educated one (and yours is - I never meant to imply that you, specifically, are doing it wrong). I've seen snakes come into rescues with rodent injuries. it's not pretty.

 

[Talkenlate04]

Oh I agree with you. The only major damage I have ever seen from a live feeder came from the owner that tossed in a rat and then left for the movies, or left for dinner, or ect ect ect, without seeing the rat be killed and the rat caused major major damage in the time the owner was away, and even mortally wounded the snake. But that right there is a perfect example of an owner fail on epic level.

 

[kevin91172]

This guy was fun to play with today too.

Lol what a load of crap. That is truly amusing.

Very nice is that an eastern or western?Is there a way to tell the difference by the post optical marking,one has it the other does not?

 

[Talkenlate04]

That boy is a western. As far as telling the difference between the two, I have no clue lol. If if I am not mistaken I think easterns are a bit more drab in colors over all but I have not seen one in person.

 

[kevin91172]

That boy is a western. As far as telling the difference between the two, I have no clue lol. If if I am not mistaken I think easterns are a bit more drab in colors over all but I have not seen one in person.

Been wanting one of those for a while.A buddy has one and he let me tong feed it one day.All I can say is WOW! fast and had venom every where and lots of it! Been in love with these every since.

 

[SK8TERBOI]

Wow that is crazy a Gaboon Viper is some serious Stuff I liked what i saw so much I went out to a Local That sells Legal Hots Here in California and picked up this Baby not sure on the SP. but he said mom is a WC From Desert Hot springs rescued from the road although judging by the way He/She Moves i am sure its a sidewinder

 

[spinningspider]

That boy is a western. As far as telling the difference between the two, I have no clue lol. If if I am not mistaken I think easterns are a bit more drab in colors over all but I have not seen one in person.

Westerns have one triangle under the eye, easterns have 2

 

[spinningspider]

Also easterns lack rostral scales in most cases I believe

 

[Ookamii]

On the note of owners feeding Live and not being a watchfull owner, when my ex worked at petco i was there with him all day every day, a woman came in one day and bought a small rat as a feeder for her 10 foot python she bought 2 weeks beforehand, not 2 hours later she came back in screaming and yelling that she wanted her money back for the rat because it bit her pythons head and killed it. of course thay didnt give her money back because it was bought as a feeder not a pet. i ended up adopting the rat....he was a mean rat, blinded my female rat. course he got separated right after that..

 

[skippy]

that is a crotalus cerastes cerastes or a crotalus cerastes laterorepens you have there sk8erboi.

 

[kevin91172]

that is a crotalus cerastes cerastes or a crotalus cerastes laterorepens you have there sk8erboi.

This my crotalus cerastes laterorepens I believe his is a crotalus cerastes cerastes

 

[kevin91172]

This touches on a point I tried, and apparently failed, to get across. New owners often don't do as they should. If a person can't recognize that a snake isn't hungry, or they buy some half starved aggressive feeder animal, and just toss the two in a tank together, problems can result.

Others live feeding their snakes doesn't bother me. Not my snake. I don't do it, and I never will for various reasons (most of which have to do with practicality rather than emotional reasons - I've raised and slaughtered cows and chickens, I hunt and fish, same concept really). If asked, especially by those new to the hobby, I recommend f/t because it's safer. Not just for the potential of injury to the snake, but a stack of frozen critters from a reputable feeder dealer are going to be more healthy (and often cheaper) than something dug out of a lot of feeder bins (course you raise your own, so that wouldn't apply to you). If you've been doing it, and you've been successful, and you know what you're doing, good on you. I simply think it's important for newbies to become familiar with snake care and behaviour, and to have a somewhat healthy respect for the rodent's potential, before taking up the practice, is all.

Being truly totally opposed to live feeding is a little silly. There are specimen, especially w/c (ball pythons come to mind), that won't take f/t, or even fresh killed/stunned, prey. But most c/b snakes will. The decision has to be an educated one (and yours is - I never meant to imply that you, specifically, are doing it wrong). I've seen snakes come into rescues with rodent injuries. it's not pretty.

I like your point,I believe it can not be argued

 

[Talkenlate04]

On the note of owners feeding Live and not being a watchfull owner, when my ex worked at petco i was there with him all day every day, a woman came in one day and bought a small rat as a feeder for her 10 foot python she bought 2 weeks beforehand, not 2 hours later she came back in screaming and yelling that she wanted her money back for the rat because it bit her pythons head and killed it.

Lol that sounds like a whale of a fish story. There is no way a healthy 10' python was taken out by a small rat. I mean think about it, the snake would have to lay there the whole damn two hours and let the rat chew on it without resisting at all.
I guess you just have to have been around snakes a while to be able too wade through a bullcrap story like this one.

 

[kevin91172]

Great the snake died because it was probably a cull,not a good thing of breeding those in the hobby...............

 

[dtknow]

I see nothing wrong with live feeding-however many videos on youtube or ways that glorify live feeding or ridicule/torture the prey animal really turn people off to snake keepers. People think you are some kind of sadist if you keep a snake.