Found Snake

pitbulllady

Arachnoking
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May 1, 2004
Messages
2,290
Umm....Garter Snakes are not venomous. :?
Oh yes, they ARE! They are a rear-fanged snake and they do possess Duvernoy's glands, and no, I didn't get that information from Wikipedia, but from the "Venom Doc" himself, Dr. Bryan G. Frye, who has made a career of studying animal venoms and probably knows more about venoms and their components than anyone else. Garters most definitely do have a mild venom, just an inefficient means of getting it into you. Ditto for all Natricine snakes, actually. The venom contains an anticoagulant as well as neurotoxic components, which is why a bite from a Garter or Water Snake will bleed like crazy, way out of proportion to the physical injury itself. I've been bitten by Garters, and a Garter bite hurts and burns waaay worse than even a bite from a very large Rat Snake or comparable-sized Boid. The last time I got tagged good by a Garter felt similar to a bite I got once from a decent-sized Mangrove Snake(Boiga dendrophila), just without that pounding headache that Mangrove bites generally cause. I had tingling and numbness at the bite site for several hours, with burning and itching as it wore off, a lot like when you have had a shot of Novacaine and it's starting to wear off. If a Garter ever manages to get a good grip on you and chew, as opposed to that fast strike-and-release type of bite, you'll know it. Our North American Garters have a close relative in Asia, snakes in the genus Rhabdophis, which looks virtually identical to our Garters, but some of the snakes in that genus have caused human fatalities, and it was not due to allergic reactions, either. The store chain that eventually became Target used to sell small animals, including snakes, and they used to sell many, many Rhabdophis tigrinus as "Asian Garter Snakes". They looked just like a brightly-colored "Flame" Garter, and ate the same things. I had one of those for many years that I bought for $15.00, and free-handled it just like a Corn Snake, not knowing that it could have killed me! No one really realized that those little snakes were potentially lethal and they were imported by the thousands to be sold as cheap pets. When documented reports started coming out of Asia of fatalities caused by bites from that species, needless to say, they were no longer imported. Current studies suggest that these snakes, and possibly our Garters as well, acquire greater toxicity by storing toxins from frogs that they eat, much as Poison Dart Frogs acquire their toxins from eating insects that have in turn eaten highly poisonous leaves, so I have to wonder if captive-bred snakes that have never eaten a frog would have as strong a venom as wild-caught snakes, but the Garter than had bitten me was a long-term captive that was eating scented mice and fish, and I still had a very noticeable reaction that was quite different from a bite from most Colubrids.

pitbulllady
 

stevetastic

Arachnodemon
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Jul 29, 2008
Messages
670
Haha....you're kidding right? Show me something that says Garter Snakes have fully functional venom delivery systems (i.e. glands, ducts & fangs).
The Duvernoy's Glands have duct systems that drain the lobules down a main duct to small rear fangs.

a view of the glad and ducts can be seen here.
 

Mojosmf

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
26
Glands on garter snakes

Actually they do have venom glans, Venom. He is correct. Garter snakes have Duvernoy's Glands. I know it for a fact
 

RoachGirlRen

Arachnoangel
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Jul 8, 2007
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994
Science! It's good for being informed n'stuff.

How's the little dude doing, MMA? You didn't happen to take any pics of the little cutie, did you?
 

zonbonzovi

Creeping beneath you
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Not sure if this is related or not, but: garter snakes are one of the only successful predators of Taricha granulosa(rough skinned newt), which contains an unbelievably powerful tetrodotoxin. A full grown man would be dead within the hour after consuming T. granulosa, yet the garter snake has apparently developed a means to eat the newt without being affected. I don't know if this has anything to do with the Duvernoy's gland, but if anyone comes across any interrelated research on the two phenomena, I would temporarily be your best friend:}
 

Exo

Arachnoprince
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Jun 19, 2009
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Wow, I didn't know they had venom.....I only knew that their bites sting, get red, and itch a little bit.....weird. :confused:
 

stevetastic

Arachnodemon
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Messages
670
Not sure if this is related or not, but: garter snakes are one of the only successful predators of Taricha granulosa(rough skinned newt), which contains an unbelievably powerful tetrodotoxin. A full grown man would be dead within the hour after consuming T. granulosa, yet the garter snake has apparently developed a means to eat the newt without being affected. I don't know if this has anything to do with the Duvernoy's gland, but if anyone comes across any interrelated research on the two phenomena, I would temporarily be your best friend:}
Immunities to poisons are not uncommon. Take for instance the cane toad. It bufotoxin kills everything that eats except in its native territory where animals have evolved along side it and it is regularly eaten with no ill effects.
 

stevetastic

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
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Messages
670
Not sure if this is related or not, but: garter snakes are one of the only successful predators of Taricha granulosa(rough skinned newt), which contains an unbelievably powerful tetrodotoxin. A full grown man would be dead within the hour after consuming T. granulosa, yet the garter snake has apparently developed a means to eat the newt without being affected. I don't know if this has anything to do with the Duvernoy's gland, but if anyone comes across any interrelated research on the two phenomena, I would temporarily be your best friend:}
Immunities to poisons are not uncommon. Take for instance the cane toad. It bufotoxin kills everything that eats except in its native territory where animals have evolved along side it and it is regularly eaten with no ill effects.
 

Beardo

Arachnoprince
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Jan 13, 2004
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1,518
Ok, ok....I admit. I got owned.

I should've known this, as I've read a few of Dr. Fry's articles on other herps in the past.

*Facepalm*
 

stevetastic

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
670
Ok, ok....I admit. I got owned.

I should've known this, as I've read a few of Dr. Fry's articles on other herps in the past.

*Facepalm*
Eh... it happens to everyone occasionally and you owned up to it. That earns you respect in my book. At least you don't ignore facts when they are presented to you.

Also sorry if I came off rude. I have been stressed out lately.

To the OP:

How are things going with the little guy?
 

Beardo

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 13, 2004
Messages
1,518
Same here man....I had a bad day at work dealing with a-holes so it kinda carried over, lol. My bad....ddn't mean to be a "smart guy" LOL. :p
 
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