For the potential hot keeper...

[looseyfur]

There are gigantic differences between keeping hots for the adrenaline rush, or because its cool as opposed to the kind that keep them out of genuine interest in the animal...
One wants it because it's "cool" or a status symbol, and the other because of a scientific interest in it.
One would not be aware of all the risks and possible outcomes, and the other is prepared for the worst, but cautious and diligent.

and either of the type of keepers you described can and do get bit.
round and round we go.
meh-
loosey

 

[Sheri]

and either of the type of keepers you described can and do get bit.

not that I mind the population control when an idiot gets it.


meh-
loosey

Which, however, is more likely to get tagged?

 

[looseyfur]

impossible to put realistic numbers too.

I would hazard a guess and say that even 'controlled' encountered with speices have overwelming dangers for keepers of nearly any level. As I am sure you point is that knowledge is power in regard to bodily harm I would remind you of a few points... one: snakes dont respect your knowlege they are indescriminate when irritated. two: blink your eyes... in about 1/2 that time you could be bit. How you deal with it does seperate some life from death sceniaros but not all.
You are in fact increasing your odds of being in mortal danger by keeping hots. Its not a point to argue its a fact. Rather think outside the box when discussing your reason or rational for keeping hots... this macho vs mensa is getting old.


waves-
looseyfur

 

[Spider-man 2]

Those pictures are some great photo reference, I mean it sucks that that happened to him, but great to actually see what the muscles and tendons look like is pretty cool.

This so makes me want to buy a rattlesnakes RIGHT NOW! HEH.... :liar:

 

[Sheri]

First... I don't keep hots.

Second... thinking outside the box is a fantastic exercise, but it would would be in defiance of logic to suggest that some smartass, testosterone lacking, impulsive keeper has an equal chance of being tagged as an experienced and responsible keeper.

Third... no kidding the risk exists for both sides of that fence, I am NOT saying it doesn't, nor would I ever.

Feel free to stretch your legs outside the confinement box... I'm kinda curious now.

 

[looseyfur]

First... I don't keep hots.

I know

Second... thinking outside the box is a fantastic exercise, but it would would be in defiance of logic to suggest that some smartass, testosterone lacking, impulsive keeper has an equal chance of being tagged as an experienced and responsible keeper.

Though there may be less risk with responsible keeper of hots what room is there for error?


Third... no kidding the risk exists for both sides of that fence, I am NOT saying it doesn't, nor would I ever.

I know... nothing was directed at you anyhow. I value your opinion as I hope you value mine. (If I actually have one that is)

Feel free to stretch your legs outside the confinement box... I'm kinda curious now.

ok hows this for outside the box...

"Dr. Jonathan "looseyfur" Chase - wealthy, young, handsome. A man with the brightest of futures. A man with the darkest of pasts. From Africa's deepest recesses, to the rarest peaks of Tibet. Heir to his father's legacy and the worlds darkest mysteries...Jonathan "looseyfur" Chase, master of the secrets that divide man from animal, animal from man, Manimal."



bah-
looseyfur

 

[Spider-man 2]

First... I don't keep hots.

Second... thinking outside the box is a fantastic exercise, but it would would be in defiance of logic to suggest that some smartass, testosterone lacking, impulsive keeper has an equal chance of being tagged as an experienced and responsible keeper.

Third... no kidding the risk exists for both sides of that fence, I am NOT saying it doesn't, nor would I ever.

Feel free to stretch your legs outside the confinement box... I'm kinda curious now.

So, how was your morning Sheri?

 

[RazorRipley]

This doesnt make sense....Thats like posting a pic of a motorcycle accident and equating that to owning a motorcycle..
T

I dont have a motorcycle either

 

[Crotalus]

impossible to put realistic numbers too.

I would hazard a guess and say that even 'controlled' encountered with speices have overwelming dangers for keepers of nearly any level. As I am sure you point is that knowledge is power in regard to bodily harm I would remind you of a few points... one: snakes dont respect your knowlege they are indescriminate when irritated. two: blink your eyes... in about 1/2 that time you could be bit. How you deal with it does seperate some life from death sceniaros but not all.
You are in fact increasing your odds of being in mortal danger by keeping hots. Its not a point to argue its a fact. Rather think outside the box when discussing your reason or rational for keeping hots... this macho vs mensa is getting old.


waves-
looseyfur

Its not equally hazardous if you are a keeper that are knowledged, that got a common sence and take every precaution possible as to a unknowledged, daredevil which lack common sence and dont take necessery precautions.
The first keeper know how snakes react, and handle them safe with hooks and tongs. The second keeper might aswell try picking them up by hand. Who do you think is in greatest risk of beeing tagged? Offcourse snakes do unexpected things, but keeper no 1 knows it and are prepared for it and can deal with a snake on the floor that bites ferociously. Keeper no 2 get taken by surprise and dont know how to deal with this new situation. Who do you think is in greatest risk of beeing tagged?

/Lelle

 

[Wolfchan]

For a decent translation (Not great, but decent) I used babelfish:

http://world.altavista.com/

 

[Lasiodora]

impossible to put realistic numbers too.

I would hazard a guess and say that even 'controlled' encountered with speices have overwelming dangers for keepers of nearly any level. As I am sure you point is that knowledge is power in regard to bodily harm I would remind you of a few points... one: snakes dont respect your knowlege they are indescriminate when irritated. two: blink your eyes... in about 1/2 that time you could be bit. How you deal with it does seperate some life from death sceniaros but not all.
You are in fact increasing your odds of being in mortal danger by keeping hots. Its not a point to argue its a fact. Rather think outside the box when discussing your reason or rational for keeping hots... this macho vs mensa is getting old.


waves-
looseyfur

I would like to add that the herpetology dept at the zoo near me has never had anyone in the department bit by a hot snake (in their 100 years of being open). I think this says something about being knowledgeable and having the proper housing and handling procedures. They have kept everything from seasnakes, green and black mambas, king cobras, to spitting cobras and arboreal vipers. You name it, and its probably been kept there. I am not arguing that no one can ever get bit. Just saying that the less prepared you are, the higher the risk. What we need to do is stop attacking the venomous hobby and go after the irresponsible keepers (not pointing fingers at anyone).
Mike

 

[looseyfur]

I know some of you are tired of defending your will and desire to keep hots. I also know you have a fair mix of experienced keepers (of which no one is born as) and complete idiots within the structure of the hobby as there is with inverts. SO instead of running in a circle defending yourselves why not educate. Who has the most likelyhood of getting hit with a hot bite? who cares? hows about posting what to do when you get tagged? Those in the know always (all be it frustrating sometimes ) have a responcibility to educate about something like this aspect of keeping snakes. I know there are boards where I am sure you expend alot of energy being very scientific about your hots hobby... but here I think mostly all that is seen is some killer pics that make herps drool and then a litanty of " wow thats cool " posts, followed up with a "your nuts to keep them" threads. ITS THE SAME nearly every post. I am not trying to ruffle feathers I am saying to adquately show your strength as a hots keeper you should volenteer as much info as you cant about what your posting. That seperates the knowledgeable keepers from the retards pretty quickly in my mind. I do and will continue to have all the respect for persons who devote themselfs to their hobbies and can back up their rational for keeping with calculated risk and a desire to truely "know" their animals behavior. Alot of folks tend to become involved rather heatedly with the debate to keep hots who I wouldnt trust to even properly care for themselves. ... I guess that if your tired about getting second guessed about your hobby then perhaps you could lay some skeptics to rest with the sheer volume of knowlegde some of you posess.
its like and endless biblical debate or politcs debate- you may never have everyones agreement but you can earn their respect. I would be and have been very vehiment about protecting my hobby(ies) from mainstream macho morons, weither it was T's scorps pitbulls or hot snakes, I gained the respect of co-workers to familymembers with knowledge and precaution which I voiced whenever given a chance, I distinguished myself as the "right" kind of person you can trust to handle and work with some rather dangerous animals, which I never could have done if I had thrown my hands up to debate or if I hadnt taken the time to educate some of the folks around me.

I have debated even posting this cause it even while being re-read by me, seems condencending even contradictory to eairly posts by yours truely, I caution you again thats not the point. Snakes do infact not care remotely who they bite the best or the worst keeper its all the same to them eh? The point is in fact its pointless to try and decided its ok or not ok to keep hots. Rather I tend to agree with Lelle ( as I most always do) that its ok for "Lelle" to keep hots, because he has illustrated my point several times in the over 6 years I have been reading stuff here. Get me?



and the winner of the worst speller of the year goes to :


yours truely-
looseyfur

 

[Sheri]

and the winner of the worst speller of the year goes to :

yours truely-
looseyfur

Ok.
That was pretty endearing.

 

[looseyfur]

Ok.
That was pretty endearing.

trust me looseyfur is cool... ask around




your new pal-
looseyfur

 

[Atalanta]

trust me looseyfur is cool... ask around




your new pal-
looseyfur

Loosey is cool - he has a cute doggie, too. :razz:

 

[David_F]

SO instead of running in a circle defending yourselves why not educate. Who has the most likelyhood of getting hit with a hot bite? who cares? hows about posting what to do when you get tagged? Those in the know always (all be it frustrating sometimes ) have a responcibility to educate about something like this aspect of keeping snakes. etc.......

Here's the problem with Lelle, or anyone else, attempting to "educate" those of us with no experience keeping hots by posting his knowledge on a public forum: Some idiot will read the "tutorial", go out and buy a copperhead, and think because he's read about keeping this animal he knows all there is to know about it. That wouldn't be very responsible of a hot keeper would it?

I don't think (who cares what I think? ) there is anything wrong with Lelle posting pics of his animals. I don't have the experience required to keep these animals and probably never will. I still like to look at them though. I do think he's done a damn good job of explaining how stupid it is to buy something that is potentially life threatening if you don't have any/a lot of practical knowledge/experience. Why should he have to explain himself? You are right about one thing: it is like a political, religious, or gun control debate. Here's the deal, Lelle isn't endangering anyone but himself (and I'm sure he takes every precaution imaginable) by keeping these animals. Why harrass him or ask him to explain himself? Treat it like TV.....If you don't like it, don't look at it.

P.S. Not a shot at you Loosey. I'm just bored and probably just as tired of seeing people complain about venomous snakes as you are. I think I almost have you beat for that worst-speller-of-the-year award.

 

[Crotalus]

"Educate" is probably the wrong word here, no one can just read online and think they know how to take care of a venomous snake. If they think that, they lack common sence and shouldnt get one in the first place.
And David, I dont feel harassed.

/Lelle

 

[Crotalus]

And looseyfur, if you think I will post a pix of a rattler and together with this picture write down a bite protocol you think wrong. I dont think people should look at a picture and read a bite protocol, general do and donts etc and think they knows enough to buy a rattler at the next show.

/Lelle

 

[looseyfur]

And looseyfur, if you think I will post a pix of a rattler and together with this picture write down a bite protocol you think wrong. I dont think people should look at a picture and read a bite protocol, general do and donts etc and think they knows enough to buy a rattler at the next show.

/Lelle[/QUOT


your the boss of you at least I tried to show a diffrent angle on the defence of keeping hots instead of being lame and running to the same argument over and over....



over and out-
looseyfur

 

[bugsnstuff]

For a decent translation (Not great, but decent) I used babelfish:

http://world.altavista.com/

thats what i used, so probably the same as you came up with