Florida 16 Species Reptile Crackdown

RoachCoach

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I think that reptile and other shops should make sure you have a place to put an animal before purchasing and if you don’t, you buy a tub or tank or enclosure to put the animal in. When I bought my turtle, I bought and bread beetles and grew lettuce to feed him and had everything ready first and the shop to tell you the animals size to warn people. My friends bought sulcata tortoises and then found out how big they actually get
You should look up how many permits you need to have, let alone breed a hot reptile. Its freakin bonkers. As it should be though.
 

Matts inverts

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I know California, you need a 10000 dollar permit plus inspections. I sort of agree with not needing a permit for rattle snake or beaded lizards but on the other hand, any redneck can go and get a diamond back
 

RoachCoach

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I know California, you need a 10000 dollar permit plus inspections. I sort of agree with not needing a permit for rattle snake or beaded lizards but on the other hand, any redneck can go and get a diamond back
Kudos to any redneck that can safely capture an EDB. I think most of them WDB which are slow and stupid. Let them come over here and try to diddle some of our timber rattlers like they do WDB. Buncha dead westbillies we would have.
 

Matts inverts

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True, I fell on my dirt bike onto a diamond back and it was so chill. It just slithered away with no problem. It would be WAY different if it was a coral snake or a cotton mouth
 

Matts inverts

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Also the snake was fine, my friend looked at it, no burns or broken bones.
 

viper69

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Too few policy makers own exotics that we own. Too few people care beyond their own selfish needs. No regulation is going to help repsonsible people.
 

goliathusdavid

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I agree with underground reptiles for collecting the invasive species and supplying them to people who cannot get the species where they live
Here's the problem with that: it can assist the spread of said invasive species. Can you imagine if companies were selling live murder hornets or spotted lanternflies to individuals right now? They would be all over the US instead of relatively contained (though spotted lanternflies are still spreading rapidly). Selling invasives can help their spread if there is no regulation, that's just a fact.
I think the only animals people shouldn’t be aloud to keep are exotic venomous reptiles, big cats and other large exotic animals and animals that are smuggled into the pet trade. As long as they were originally bought or bread by reliable legal sources.
Really??? Inverts are trafficked too and can still become invasive species. What about small primates, should they be unregulated? Heck, there are few exotics in which there ISN'T a black market. Even animals supposedly "harmless" to native fauna and agriculture can still be disease vectors. For both animal and human wellfare, exotics should be permitted. I'm not saying illegal, but everything from Phasmids to tigers can have massive biosecurity implications, and should therefore be regulated.
 

goliathusdavid

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Too few policy makers own exotics that we own. Too few people care beyond their own selfish needs. No regulation is going to help repsonsible people.
It's not the responsible people I'm worried about. And yes, the florida legislators do not own exotics or are experts in the field. The USDA and FWS however? That is a different group of policy makers many of whom really know what they are doing (not everybody, but a good amount of the group).
 

Matts inverts

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Yes some animals need permits but most of the animal laws are messed up somehow. I live in California. Here, you can’t even own a gerbil or a ferret without a super expensive permit. Now they are trying to take away other animals. So I really disagree with needing more permits that always get denied. Yes a normal person shouldn’t buy a small child a monkey for a pet but it’s common sense not to buy a green anaconda and assume it stays small. Just do research on an animal first
 

Tarantuland

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Yes some animals need permits but most of the animal laws are messed up somehow. I live in California. Here, you can’t even own a gerbil or a ferret without a super expensive permit. Now they are trying to take away other animals. So I really disagree with needing more permits that always get denied. Yes a normal person shouldn’t buy a small child a monkey for a pet but it’s common sense not to buy a green anaconda and assume it stays small. Just do research on an animal first
Never underestimate the stupidity of people. Someone I know bought a monkey and it died because they didn't give it proper care. People definitely buy things like anacondas and don't plan ahead.
 

goliathusdavid

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Yes some animals need permits but most of the animal laws are messed up somehow. I live in California. Here, you can’t even own a gerbil or a ferret without a super expensive permit. Now they are trying to take away other animals. So I really disagree with needing more permits that always get denied. Yes a normal person shouldn’t buy a small child a monkey for a pet but it’s common sense not to buy a green anaconda and assume it stays small. Just do research on an animal first
I agree that permits should not be expensive. That is just a disincentive for people to obey the law. Please note that APHIS permits for inverts are free by the way. As for the rest of your argument, I really don't agree with the "you should be able to own any animal if you research it first" stance. There are many animals that just do not belong in the hands of individuals. Heck, there are even some animals that do not belong in the hands of zoos or institutions.
I don't trust the average exotics keeper to do research, or acquire legally, or provide optimum care. There are so many great exotics keepers out there but are also a lot of really, really bad ones. For the sake of both humans and wildlife, we can't afford to give the wildlife trade and exotic animal keepers the benefit of the doubt. We just can't.
 

Liquifin

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Florida has always been a circle of trouble when it comes to invasive species. A very large percentage of wildlife in Florida is invasive species if you put Fish, Birds, Reptiles, and everything else together. There is no easy solution in this scenario. Putting regulations is kind of weird to me, because not enough people in Florida care enough about wild life if I'm being frank. It's a double edge sword with this regulation and I feel bad for all reptile owners in Florida.
 

Matts inverts

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Yes not all exotics belong in eavry ones hands i completely agree but it’s kind of messed up how a professional like camp Kennan can’t even keep butter cup, his big Burmese python. Also most of the permits get denied like the isopods so more animals are illegally bought and breed so there is even more problems than there was before the permits. The iguana law was originally passed saying you had to kill your own pet or give it to a professional with a permit. People don’t want to give there loved pet to die or be where they can’t ever see them again. It just creates more problems
 

goliathusdavid

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@Matts inverts what is your evidence for saying "most of the permits get denied?" And who are any of us to say that those denials are without understandable reason? Also I want to make clear that I am not advocating for the reptile ban. I'm advocating for greater regulation of the wildlife trade in general, in a system that would look substantially different to what we have in place today. What I want to see is a system in which the rules are clear, and permitting is a relatively easy and free process. Such a system, with substantial enforcement, could improve the world for both exotic animals and their keepers.
As for Kamp Kenan (who frankly I don't think should be held up as a completely unproblematic professional), if he applies for a permit, he is likely to get it. No one is yet taking away his animals and if he gets proper paperwork, I don't think they will. That goes for all reptile keepers in Florida. I disagree with the ban (particularly the 2024 halt on breeding) but if they get permits and follow the enclosure guidance then they can still keep their animals for the remainder of their lives.
 

goliathusdavid

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Just wanted to update this thread with a fascinating pro-ban op-ed from the Florida Phoenix. I disagree with a lot of it (and I have made my stance on the ban clear), but think that the take of the two quoted professional biologists is quite interesting: this isn't about stopping currently invading species, or even targeting keepers - it's about combatting the pet trade's influence on government.
A lot to disagree with, but still worth a read: Banning big reptiles upsets a big FL industry. Let’s upset some others
 

The Snark

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I think the pet trade could help get rid of invasive by stoping collecting in native habitats.
Shall we ignore the tens of thousands of animal abuse and neglect citations given to "responsible" animal owners every year? The legislation, laws, rules and restrictions are the price everyone pays for the inevitable ubiquitous dipsticks our there. See U.S. Capitol, January 6th, 2021 for details.
 

AphonopelmaTX

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Just wanted to update this thread with a fascinating pro-ban op-ed from the Florida Phoenix. I disagree with a lot of it (and I have made my stance on the ban clear), but think that the take of the two quoted professional biologists is quite interesting: this isn't about stopping currently invading species, or even targeting keepers - it's about combatting the pet trade's influence on government.
A lot to disagree with, but still worth a read: Banning big reptiles upsets a big FL industry. Let’s upset some others
Let me see if I understand this. The very same industry, and pet keeping community, that caused the ecological disaster in Florida by either intentionally, or unintentionally, releasing exotic reptiles into the tropical environment of the state and surrounding islands is now complaining that they can't do it anymore. The article states that those who already have the banned reptiles can keep them, but can't get anymore when they die. All seems reasonable to me. Sounds like the state of Florida finally took their toys away because the kids couldn't play nice and now the kids are throwing a temper tantrum. The next big question is what are the exotic pet industry and keepers going to do about the big mess they created when the state stops the flood?
 

goliathusdavid

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Let me see if I understand this. The very same industry, and pet keeping community, that caused the ecological disaster in Florida by either intentionally, or unintentionally, releasing exotic reptiles into the tropical environment of the state and surrounding islands is now complaining that they can't do it anymore. The article states that those who already have the banned reptiles can keep them, but can't get anymore when they die. All seems reasonable to me. Sounds like the state of Florida finally took their toys away because the kids couldn't play nice and now the kids are throwing a temper tantrum. The next big question is what are the exotic pet industry and keepers going to do about the big mess they created when the state stops the flood?
I am so glad someone on this site is pro ban. I'm not entirely, but this is an important view to have. Personally I support every piece of this legislation EXCEPT for the breeding ban. The registration of all exotics keepers seems more than reasonable to me. However, I do find the banning of breeding these sixteen species to be a trifle problematic. There are good keepers out there, even if the industry is undeniably a net negative. I don't think absolutely everyone should be banned from keeping tegus. Instead, I think the regulations around keeping them (and exotics in general) should be far stricter and enforcement far less lenient- for the sake of both native and exotic fauna.
 
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