First T!

[Pyroxian]

Thank you for the comment! The... um... incorrect spelling of pareidolia was completely unintentional... 7 years ago. I was having a very difficult time in my life, and in addition to watching a show called "Your Bleeped Up Brain", where I learned about the term, (but not how to spell it correctly), I was also "coerced" into playing the worlds first augmented reality mobile phone game. (I'm a bit of a gamer, so it didn't take much convincing). Since the game was a quasi-espionage meets capture the flag type game, I decided that the name Paradolia would be a great fit... Then I learned how to spell it properly, and decided to use the unintentional misspelling for my online fun stuff.
7 years later, and I still love telling the story about it

Vive la resistance!

 

[Paradolia]

Lift up your shirt, and poke yourself in the belly. How did that feel? That's not the type of pokie we discuss here.

Now, after some time successfully caring for your diversipes, acquire some species from the genus Poecilotheria. Post photos of them, write lots of posts about them -- they're great! But after a while you'll get tired of typing out all 13 letters of Poecilotheria, and you'll realize why people sometimes call them pokies. It doesn't sound so grand (and the spiders are grand ones), but it's a short nickname.

I giggled because it tickled a little

Thank you for the informative comment!

 

[viper69]

What is experience?
"Practical contact with and observation of facts or events" sounds like a reasonable definition - well it's from the Oxford Dictionary and I'm kinda partial to Oxford.

I believe Testy has me on ignore, which is perfect for me.

Generally I find the OED an excellent resource. However here is a terrible definition and a fatal flaw in Testy's manifesto.

Observation is not true experience.

A few examples

1. Observed a killer - doesn't make you a killer, nor an expert in killing
2. Observed my friend rebuild car engines quite a few times - don't ask me to repair your car engines
3. Observed people fish a lot for sport- I guarantee @cold blood is a better fishermen than me!

keeping a tarantula is not calculating the trajectory of a nuclear missle!

No one has said or suggested it is haha. But the husbandry required for H. chilensis is different than a Poki!

I can always relay on comic relief when I read such content.

 

[Liquifin]

Here I use a very narrow scope. Research = what I can see in a Google search and/or see on Youtube.

Google and youtube will only put what's been viewed or visited most by their algorithms. So the information that may first appear may possibly be information on outdated care sheets or invalid information.

Particularly what are the differences that can only come from experience (as defined above) but is difficult / impossible to obtain through research?

@testdasi I understand where you're coming from. But you also need to understand my side as well. Because I feel like you are avoiding to understand the other side. But please just listen to what I have to say.
I'll tell you the differences, it's call hands on experience. Knowing and doing are two different things which you fail to acknowledge. Experience is doing and actually applying real-life time experience that you learned over time. Research is knowing or to be more specific in this case learning. Learning (in terms of google/youtube) how to do something and experience/hands on to do something are two different things and not one in the same. While it is possible to learn to care for some of the most dangerous T.'s in this hobby, the risks will always be much higher without the proper training and experience leading to it. But, if we apply your ideology it basically means everyone on here is an expert keeper by just googling and reading and watching information on Youtube/google. If we apply your way of thinking then anyone or basically everyone is an expert if you/me/anyone google or youtube for an answer. So, despite the number of T.'s or the years we have on this hobby. It's more believable to believe someone who posted a viral T. video with only 5 T.'s for example or someone's outdated website (Mikes Basic T. *cough*). We can't always believe information on youtube or google all the time as even they have limited knowledge/experience and this hobby is always having discoveries, revisions, and new methods, which usually gets updated and videos and websites gets outdated in the process (besides this forums that's always up-to-date).

So what you mean is that I can learn/give knowledge off to someone by watching someone on youtube or reading information that maybe invalid or outdated? If your logic is true, then how come people are still asking for advice and tips on this forums? Why do they got a question to ask? Surely they could have just used youtube and google like how you stated because it would've save them so much more time. But your logic doesn't make since in this case. Also if your statement and logic was true, then all of yours and mine answers are not needed as youtube and google would've provided them for us/them. Yet, people are still on this forums asking questions and yet people are learning much more from other people on here than Youtube and outdated google site recommendations. I don't think you get my point nor do you acknowledge some of my points either, and that's fine as people are all different. I'm not going to be ignorant, blunt, or rude about this, but I'm just making a statement but I do understand where you're coming from though.

 

[CJJon]

I don't know how anyone can discount the importance of actual experience with defensive, highly venomous Ts (let alone one who cites YouTube as a valid replacement). Further, I absolutely do not understand why those that think that way feel it is OK to recommend the same for new keepers. Boggles the mind.

Although quite foolish, Do What Thou Wilt (just keep it to yourself).

 

[Colorado Ts]

Slow down on the ridicule, chaps. There's a method behind the perceived madness.

Let's use the adult H.mac as an example to prove my point.
I'm avoiding picking a Pokie since I'm a Pokies fanatic so it wouldn't be a fair objective assessment.

What is experience?
"Practical contact with and observation of facts or events" sounds like a reasonable definition - well it's from the Oxford Dictionary and I'm kinda partial to Oxford.

What is research?
Here I use a very narrow scope. Research = what I can see in a Google search and/or see on Youtube.
I even exclude obtaining information from this very forum.

What makes keeping a H.mac different from a beginner specie?
Particularly what are the differences that can only come from experience (as defined above) but is difficult / impossible to obtain through research?

A quick google "H. maculata tarantula care" yields:

• First link to Mike's Basic Tarantula page that for the most parts match my own experience with the specie. It even mentioned "very fast", the bad temperament, inclination to bite and strong venom in there.
• 3 Youtube video links to: "Togo Starbust Care Notes" by Deadly Tarantula Girl, "Heteroscoda maculata Rehousing and Husbandry Notes" by Tom Moran and "Heteroscoda maculata - Togo Starburst Baboon Tarantula" by The Invert Kingdom UK. Tom Moran is widely considered to be providing good husbandry advice on tarantulas so at the very least, I would consider that video authoritative. The other 2 vids don't diverge much (if at all) from Tom's vid and the web page.
• Now I'm not a complacent chap (you guys seem to have been rather quick to ridicule while ignoring my "Just don't be complacent and you are gonna be fine." statement). I saw it says strong venom, will bite and very fast so I go on Youtube and watch some more videos. Too many to list but I'm sure after the first 10 or so, I would know many things, down to even the hole-in-a-piece-of-cardboard trick.
  • In fact, from some of the videos, it is clear to me that the H.mac isn't just fast, it teleports.

What come from (my) experience that were not available in the research bullet points above?

• H. mac can burrow if it doesn't like the hide. It basically picks wherever it thinks is most comfy and settles there, if it's 2 inches below ground at the base of but outside the cork bark then so be it. I would argue that this nuance, while interesting, isn't that useful.
• It is not only capable of teleporting but also doing it in bursts with very little pause in between. Knowing how fast AND quick it can be definitely only comes from experience. However, I have been repeatedly told that it is very fast and I'm not complacent so I take precaution by staying as far away from it as possible when doing stuff in the tank e.g. using tongs instead of my bare hands. I'm already being very careful around it but if it still decides to teleport across the tank up my tongs to tag me then it has nothing to do with my experience level.

If it were 2 decades ago, I would have laughed at such notion just like you guys have. However, it's 2020 now, not 2000.
There is a tremendous amount of information readily available online, unlike 2 decades ago when we all had to learn on the job, so to speak.
Adding to that is the fact that tarantulas are relatively hardy and low maintenance - keeping a tarantula is not calculating the trajectory of a nuclear missle!

So do the research and don't be complacent and you are gonna be fine.

I’m sorry dude, but as soon as you start equating practical experience with reading a few pages and YouTube videos...all I hear is, blah blah blah...bite report.

Failure in this endeavore has pretty serious and significant consequences. Your advice is way below acceptable....your basically saying, “If I read this chapter, and watch this video...I'll be able to do the surgery on that guy tomorrow.” That thought process is so far from reality for most people.

I wish you all the luck in the world in your personal endeavors, but when your bad advice starts loading the boat with innocent others...I cry foul.

 

[moricollins]

Hi guys (and gals), let's commend the OP for a responsible decision to seek care advice here , give the OP some advice on this beautiful species, and leave the debate over whether a Poecilotheria / Heteroscoda / whatever else is a good beginner tarantula somewhere else ;-)

 

[testdasi]

your basically saying, “If I read this chapter, and watch this video...I'll be able to do the surgery on that guy tomorrow.”

No that's not what I'm saying at all.
You really have taken my post out of context, which is keeping tarantulas, which is by order of magnitude simpler than performing a surgery.
Learning elementary algebra is easily done from googling and Youtube. Calculating the trajectory of a nuclear missile is not.
Different context, different conclusion.

However, I have to thank you because by taking my post out of context, you seem to have hit the crux of our disagreement, that is different underlying assumptions.

• You, @DaveM and @Liquifin probably consider keeping tarantulas difficult and complex. Akin to performing a surgery or as I like to say, calculating the trajectory of a nuclear missile.
• In contrast, I consider keeping tarantulas rather simple. Akin to elementary algebra.

Given the vastly different underlying assumptions, we should just agree to disagree.
It would be a fool's errand for me to persuade you guys that it's simple. And vice versa, your effort to persuade me that it's difficult would be to no avail.

 

[DomGom TheFather]

My learning curve is different from yours.
That is ok.
Just because one person can jump into something because they feel the need doesn't mean everyone can.
Some children will play in the shallow end until nine and insist on their swimmies. Others jump from the diving board when you aren't looking and seem to have known their limitations better than you.
I would never recommend someone do something if I don't see their experience but I refuse to pretend to know if you are a mermaid kid or not. The problem is that you told the lifeguard you were doing it.
I will say..
be safe, have fun and know your limitations.

 

[Colorado Ts]

No that's not what I'm saying at all.
You really have taken my post out of context, which is keeping tarantulas, which is by order of magnitude simpler than performing a surgery.
Learning elementary algebra is easily done from googling and Youtube. Calculating the trajectory of a nuclear missile is not.
Different context, different conclusion.

However, I have to thank you because by taking my post out of context, you seem to have hit the crux of our disagreement, that is different underlying assumptions.

• You, @DaveM and @Liquifin probably consider keeping tarantulas difficult and complex. Akin to performing a surgery or as I like to say, calculating the trajectory of a nuclear missile.
• In contrast, I consider keeping tarantulas rather simple. Akin to elementary algebra.

Given the vastly different underlying assumptions, we should just agree to disagree.
It would be a fool's errand for me to persuade you guys that it's simple. And vice versa, your effort to persuade me that it's difficult would be to no avail.

I’ll enjoy reading the contents of your soon to be written Bite Report, you can tell everyone about how simple it was to get bitten...

 

[viper69]

I think the people below make very valid points. @Liquifin you are a pillar of patience to write that that out, articulated quite well, keep it up !!

If we apply your way of thinking then anyone or basically everyone is an expert if you/me/anyone google or youtube for an answer

BINGO

So what you mean is that I can learn/give knowledge off to someone by watching someone on youtube or reading information that maybe invalid or outdated? If your logic is true, then how come people are still asking for advice and tips on this forums? Why do they got a question to ask?

Spot on @Liquifin Funny how we get all these questions with so much "useful" video content and such out there. Those people have a lot of experience.

I don't know how anyone can discount the importance of actual experience with defensive, highly venomous Ts (let alone one who cites YouTube as a valid replacement). Further, I absolutely do not understand why those that think that way feel it is OK to recommend the same for new keepers. Boggles the mind.

Although quite foolish, Do What Thou Wilt (just keep it to yourself).

Whoa, who needs experience, I call my friends at Google!

I’m sorry dude, but as soon as you start equating practical experience with reading a few pages and YouTube videos...all I hear is, blah blah blah...bite report.

Right there with you

“If I read this chapter, and watch this video...I'll be able to do the surgery on that guy tomorrow.

Listen, I read how to do neurosurgery last night, with Cliff Notes! I'll give you a 25% discount.

No that's not what I'm saying at all.
You really have taken my post out of context, which is keeping tarantulas, which is by order of magnitude simpler than performing a surgery.
Learning elementary algebra is easily done from googling and Youtube. Calculating the trajectory of a nuclear missile is not.
Different context, different conclusion.

However, I have to thank you because by taking my post out of context, you seem to have hit the crux of our disagreement, that is different underlying assumptions.

• You, @DaveM and @Liquifin probably consider keeping tarantulas difficult and complex. Akin to performing a surgery or as I like to say, calculating the trajectory of a nuclear missile.
• In contrast, I consider keeping tarantulas rather simple. Akin to elementary algebra.

Given the vastly different underlying assumptions, we should just agree to disagree.
It would be a fool's errand for me to persuade you guys that it's simple. And vice versa, your effort to persuade me that it's difficult would be to no avail.

Would be....hah

He has clearly missed the use of hyperbole in the others' responses. I suggest he checks out the definition in his Oxford Dictionary he's so fond of. Maybe they have an instruction manual on Ts for some experience.

 

[aprilmayjunebugs]

I believe Testy has me on ignore, which is perfect for me.

I found this waaaay too funny, lol.

The very most important thing I have learned since I started keeping tarantulas, is arachnoboards IS the most reliable place to get correct information.

 

[viper69]

I found this waaaay too funny, lol.

The very most important thing I have learned since I started keeping tarantulas, is arachnoboards IS the most reliable place to get correct information.

Don't tell Testy that, he may buy you a subscription to YouTube.

I've never found a better source for arachnids on the net.

 

[Paradolia]

Vive la resistance!

<3<3<3<3<3

Vive la resistance!

 

[DaveM]

@testdasi I'm a fan of most of your posts. Count my likes and agrees! The number of dislikes and disagrees is zero.
I'm all for challenging the establishment, going after accepted wisdom with a skeptical eye, having a different point of view -- with due respect and humility.

• You, @DaveM and @Liquifin probably consider keeping tarantulas difficult and complex. Akin to performing a surgery or as I like to say, calculating the trajectory of a nuclear missile.
• In contrast, I consider keeping tarantulas rather simple. Akin to elementary algebra.

Would that mean that you're so much smarter and more talented than the rest of us? That this is all so simple for you and so difficult and complex for the rest of us to grasp?

I don't think it's like surgery (and I'm a pretty good small animal surgeon as a side dish to my research) or like calculating the trajectory of missiles (which my little sister does, sort of, more like rockets and the effect of solar radiation on them, call it rocket science!). I think keeping Ts is like driving a car, where it's advisable to have a little bit of actual experience before going for maximum speed.
I also think it's open-ended how much we can learn. If it's all so elementary, then why bother revisiting AB? ...but we all do. There's always more to learn.

I don't think we're taking you out of context. We have a beginner here getting his first T, and most of us believe that some species are easier than others and better to start with.
You don't tackle elementary algebra without having practiced basic arithmetic first, right?

Most of us don't seem to agree with you, but I still appreciate your post. I'm glad for the brave souls that put new opinions out there.

 

[viper69]

Always like reading what you drop

Would that mean that you're so much smarter and more talented than the rest of us?

hahahahahaha

it's advisable to have a little bit of actual experience before going for maximum speed.

@DaveM like they say "common sense ain't common"

I don't think we're taking you out of context

Of course no one has as you know.

It's impossible to take someone out of context when we read response word for word

You don't tackle elementary algebra without having practiced basic arithmetic first, right?

Damn Dave, there you go again w/that common sense, this is just plain crazy talk I tell you!

I'm glad for the brave souls that put new opinions out there.

Indeed everyone's has an opinion, but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. He has his "own facts" re: OW vs NW.

 

[Paradolia]

Indeed everyone's has an opinion, but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. He has his "own facts" re: OW vs NW.

I am definitely not ready for an OW...

I sincerely appreciate that everyone here is doing their best to be helpful, and keeping the conversation civil... mostly... with testy's original comment about watching videos and reading books, I can agree... to a point... for something like working with leather, or making something out of fabric, or doing something tactile that requires dexterity and a general basic knowledge of how the hand tools work against inanimate objects, that approach would definitely work for me...

I am doing as much research as I can pack into a day with me being laid off since march, and I will never forget that I will soon be dealing with live animals, and that even the most docile creature can have mood swings. Case in point: My GSD Service goof. He's a phenomenal dog... until he isn't. He's absolutely spectacular off leash in my yard most of the time, but he's bitten a guy when he felt threatened, and has lunged after someone running at least 50 feet away, no posing what I would perceive as a threat. because he can sometimes be unpredictable, I have to hypothesize that he's ALWAYS going to be unpredictable. I will be treating my tarantulas the exact same way. If they appear to be docile, I will be more on alert because i know that it can be something as simple as their foot getting caught on something and me not knowing it, and BAM! now i have a bite.

I am grateful for having found this forum, and look forward to frequent in depth conversations in the future, before, during, and after i get my first lovely fuzzy butt!

 

[Chebe6886]

I did surgery for a while and even dabbled in Neurosurgery from time to time... it’s really not that tough, I used google all the time.
For what it’s worth...Rehousing an adult Pokie or H Mac definitely made me a few orders of magnitude more nervous.

 

[moricollins]

I will be treating my tarantulas the exact same way. If they appear to be docile, I will be more on alert because i know that it can be something as simple as their foot getting caught on something and me not knowing it, and BAM! now i have a bite.

This is a good approach. It can be something as simple as a slight bit of air movement that gets the tarantula running.

 

[Paradolia]

This is a good approach. It can be something as simple as a slight bit of air movement that gets the tarantula running.

I was actually thinking that my covid mask would help reduce the likelihood of stray air while performing tank maintenance. That and turning off any breeze producing devices nearby