Feeding Non-Live Foods

[Jumbie Spider]

I fed my stirmi a piece of salmon and she took it, took a very long time with it but by the morning it was completely gone. Is there a problem doing this?
From reading other threads about how this feeder item is gross (like crickets or roaches) vs the other, and this feeder item has more protein etc. then why not just feed frozen if the T accepts it?
Just curious if this bad for them, even if just once in a while as a treat... It sure saved me some hassle from going to the pet store to grab large crickets.
Oh my centipede took some as well, but didn't finish it. Any nutritional based impact one should be concerned about?

 

[cold blood]

not a problem....a lot of adults wont take dead prey, but if they do, go for it.....after filleting a fish, i have fed slings bits of fish...ive also fed chicken without issue....but fish are fine.

 

[Jumbie Spider]

not a problem....a lot of adults wont take dead prey, but if they do, go for it.....after filleting a fish, i have fed slings bits of fish...ive also fed chicken without issue....but fish are fine.

Thanks! Good to know. I was feeding my fishes and had some diced salmon left over so I figured I'd give it a shot, since she takes it I might stick with non-live and see how it goes.

 

[viper69]

I fed my stirmi a piece of salmon and she took it, took a very long time with it but by the morning it was completely gone. Is there a problem doing this?
From reading other threads about how this feeder item is gross (like crickets or roaches) vs the other, and this feeder item has more protein etc. then why not just feed frozen if the T accepts it?
Just curious if this bad for them, even if just once in a while as a treat... It sure saved me some hassle from going to the pet store to grab large crickets.
Oh my centipede took some as well, but didn't finish it. Any nutritional based impact one should be concerned about?

I try to feed prey items the animals would come in contact with in nature.

 

[HeartBum]

I try to feed prey items the animals would come in contact with in nature.

Brb, dumping a roast dinner in my enclosure.

 

[Conor10]

Hmm... very interesting I never thought that would work.

 

[Jumbie Spider]

I try to feed prey items the animals would come in contact with in nature.

Thanks for your input. Is it because of your concern around nutritional value? If so I'd like to learn more.

Thinking in general, I don't see it as impossible for rainforest spiders that live near water ways to encounter stranded fishes in drying flood pools, as is a very common occurrence in the amazon.
But then again, do scientist conduct stomach contents analysis of tarantulas to confirm specifically what animals comprise of their diets (Or is that even possible since it's liquified)? I know for fishes, they study their stomach contents to confirm what food contents are contained therein, and from that can understand the food chain etc. But if we don't have stomach content analysis data, it would just be based on limited observational data?

 

[Frogdaddy]

not a problem....a lot of adults wont take dead prey, but if they do, go for it.....after filleting a fish, i have fed slings bits of fish...ive also fed chicken without issue....but fish are fine. View attachment 371222

He's Just looking for a way to get rid of all those bluegills and perch he catches.

 

[Almadabes]

Super interesting.
I have heard of people feeding pieces of meat before but honestly, I thought they were lying lol.

I imagine a tarantula could scavenge from a pre-killed mammal or fish in the wild.
But in the wild they're not eating - farm-raised animals that have a very specific diet and are given medications, antibiotics, hormones etc.
Obviously, you feed your fish that, and I have chucked pieces of meat from my plate to my dog with no issue.

I don't know if it's actually harmful - just something to keep in mind maybe.

Nutritionally speaking - I wouldn't make it the norm. Maybe an occasional treat if anything at all.

Could also mold pretty bad in a Theraposa setup.

It's true we don't know what their perfect diet consists of - but it's imo best at this point to just change up the feeders every now and again.

To the argument of only feeding what they naturally come in contact with...
I stick to insects - because it's likely what makes up a majority of their diet and it's much safer/easier to do.

But in fairness, many feeder insects are specific species that aren't always local to the T's environment.
Most of us are feeding House Crickets to our new worlds - but house crickets aren't a new world species.
Burrowing T's probably find a lot of grubs, worms, and beetles underground that aren't a staple in the feeder industry and that we don't use.

 

[Jumbie Spider]

Super interesting.
I have heard of people feeding pieces of meat before but honestly, I thought they were lying lol.

I imagine a tarantula could scavenge from a pre-killed mammal or fish in the wild.
But in the wild they're not eating - farm-raised animals that have a very specific diet and are given medications, antibiotics, hormones etc.
Obviously, you feed your fish that, and I have chucked pieces of meat from my plate to my dog with no issue.

I don't know if it's actually harmful - just something to keep in mind maybe.

Nutritionally speaking - I wouldn't make it the norm. Maybe an occasional treat if anything at all.

Could also mold pretty bad in a Theraposa setup.

It's true we don't know what their perfect diet consists of - but it's imo best at this point to just change up the feeders every now and again.

To the argument of only feeding what they naturally come in contact with...
I stick to insects - because it's likely what makes up a majority of their diet and it's much safer/easier to do.

But in fairness, many feeder insects are specific species that aren't always local to the T's environment.
Most of us are feeding House Crickets to our new worlds - but house crickets aren't a new world species.
Burrowing T's probably find a lot of grubs, worms, and beetles underground that aren't a staple in the feeder industry and that we don't use.

Some really good points

Coming from other hobbies, it's usually a best-practice to wean animals off live foods and get them to eat non-live. One of the main reasons for that is to avoid transferring parasites, and disease.
I wonder if that could also be considered an advantage in with T's (to feed non-live)? And by choosing specific non-live foods might be able to replicate or even surpass their nutritional requirements (if we understand what they are).
I am just thinking about some potential pro's for non-live as we discuss...

One other thing for example, in the aquarium hobby, is by feeding certain foods you can also alter or enhance coloration in the animal (depending on the colors). For example, salmon is high in carotene and can enhance reds and oranges.
(Unsure what influences the setae colors on T's).

Without knowing for sure, I tend to agree that maybe to err on the side of caution and feed as a treat mainly. But wonder if I rotate the types of non-live foods if that can suffice as a complete staple.

You hit a key point I was wondering too, most of the folks I see feeding actually feed things that aren't something Ts would usually encounter in the wild.

There is def potential for leftovers which can smell, and potentially be hard to cleanup although mine took the entire thing.

But here's another potential pro - all those posts where folks are concerned that crickets would gang up and eat the T, then feeding non-live would avoid that issue completely and always give a "safe" environment for feeding.

And it's not as fascinating to watch vs taking down live prey. But hey maybe it's interesting to see a Chicken spider eat a thawed chicken wing as opposed to killing and eating a live chick.

 

[darkness975]

I feed them their natural diet of invertebrates like crickets, meal worms , etc. They don't eat fish in nature.

I'm sure there's a small handful of weird instances in the wild that this somehow happened but it's so infrequent its not like fish can be considered a normal diet item.

I remember being told to feed Venus fly traps hamburger. It killed them all. I was like 10 years old at the time. It's the last time I believed any random individual's old wives tales advice. I did my own research ever since and I only trust the advice of select individuals on a given topic.

 

[Jess S]

Brb, dumping a roast dinner in my enclosure.

Good lord, it comes to something when pet tarantulas get better fed than I do

 

[Polenth]

Coming from other hobbies, it's usually a best-practice to wean animals off live foods and get them to eat non-live.

I make my own frozen food by sorting the excess animals from colonies (such as my mealworms) and freezing them. The bulk usually goes to the wild birds and my woodlice, but I've also used them for the spiderlings. It's a lot easier for me that way, so I won't switch to live unless I get a picky feeder.

Frozen and non-live doesn't have to mean lumps of vertebrate meat. It's whatever you decide to freeze for later, so you could stock up with feeders from a shop.

 

[Jumbie Spider]

Frozen and non-live doesn't have to mean lumps of vertebrate meat. It's whatever you decide to freeze for later, so you could stock up with feeders from a shop.

Good point.

I came across this, thought it was interesting:

giantspiders.com - Food & Water

Tarantula food and water requirements.

www.giantspiders.com

Tarantulas mainly attack live prey but will occasionally accept a piece of raw fat free beef if it is dangled from a piece of string to simulate movement. Tarantulas gain a lot of nourishment from beef and even the largest spider will spend 24 hours consuming a piece. Their main prey, however, is small invertebrates such as crickets, moths and flies etc.

 

[Ah Lee]

I personally don't do it, and try to replicate wild conditions as much as possible for my pets. Anything else is just taking an unnecessary risk for something that probably wouldn't benefit my pet.

Also if I'm already keeping a pet hole, at least let me see it hunt!

 

[Jumbie Spider]

Anything else is just taking an unnecessary risk for something that probably wouldn't benefit my pet

Can you go into detail regarding the risks around it?

 

[Ah Lee]

Can you go into detail regarding the risks around it?

When I mention "risks", I mostly refer to non-insect food. Of course, if the spider eats it, it's nutrition. But if we are talking about using these food sources as a staple, there are too many factors to consider.

Does your new food source provide the correct ratio of macronutrients (protein/fat/carbs) for the spider?
If it does, do you know the full nutritional composition of insects and if there is a particular micronutrient that might be essential to a spider's well-being?
Spiders mostly take food in a liquid form, will your replacement food be able to be properly and completely ingested and digested by the spider?

In short, to completely change the diet of an animal that feeds almost exclusively on an insect-based diet will take a lot of research and testing. It has been done for common pets like cats and dogs. Because there is a monetary incentive to do so.
But spider-chow will never fly because spiders are not common pets, and they eat so little. Not to mention that their dietary requirements are really easy to meet. Just feed them crickets all day and they'll be fine. Trying to find an alternative food source for them is akin to trying to reinvent the wheel.

Frozen insects might be better, but to me it's just too much of a hassle. You got to wait for it to thaw, it gets all soggy, your spider may or may not take it. Some species are particularly shy and may not take to tong-feeding well. You run the risk of your spider running away. You might sit there for a good 20 minutes dangling your soggy cricket wondering why your spider is not taking it.

So I guess the question isn't that much if you could, but rather why would you?

 

[Jumbie Spider]

When I mention "risks", I mostly refer to non-insect food. Of course, if the spider eats it, it's nutrition. But if we are talking about using these food sources as a staple, there are too many factors to consider.

Does your new food source provide the correct ratio of macronutrients (protein/fat/carbs) for the spider?
If it does, do you know the full nutritional composition of insects and if there is a particular micronutrient that might be essential to a spider's well-being?
Spiders mostly take food in a liquid form, will your replacement food be able to be properly and completely ingested and digested by the spider?

In short, to completely change the diet of an animal that feeds almost exclusively on an insect-based diet will take a lot of research and testing. It has been done for common pets like cats and dogs. Because there is a monetary incentive to do so.
But spider-chow will never fly because spiders are not common pets, and they eat so little. Not to mention that their dietary requirements are really easy to meet. Just feed them crickets all day and they'll be fine. Trying to find an alternative food source for them is akin to trying to reinvent the wheel.

Frozen insects might be better, but to me it's just too much of a hassle. You got to wait for it to thaw, it gets all soggy, your spider may or may not take it. Some species are particularly shy and may not take to tong-feeding well. You run the risk of your spider running away. You might sit there for a good 20 minutes dangling your soggy cricket wondering why your spider is not taking it.

So I guess the question isn't that much if you could, but rather why would you?

This is a very thoughtful reply, thanks.
So do you think if we look at the nutritional value of let's say, crickets, or super worms, and are able to provide that or surpass it, then it's fine?
I've seen a few charts online that compare nutrients, but let's take this one for instance:

 

[Polenth]

Frozen insects might be better, but to me it's just too much of a hassle. You got to wait for it to thaw, it gets all soggy, your spider may or may not take it. Some species are particularly shy and may not take to tong-feeding well. You run the risk of your spider running away. You might sit there for a good 20 minutes dangling your soggy cricket wondering why your spider is not taking it.

That's adding a lot of extra steps. Just toss the frozen in and see what happens. If the spider refuses food that isn't twitching, live would be easier than standing there like a lemon twitching the food on tongs... but the point is that more spiders will scavenge than people assume.

 

[basin79]

I fed a frozen thawed captive bred roach (fish) to a large adult female T.stirmi I had at the time (2014). Took her a while but she recycled it.

I certainly wouldn't do it often just for my own peace of mind but tarantulas absolutely do scavenge in the wild. Selenocosmia sp have been seen dragging dead fish to their burrows.

But you need to absolutely make sure your tarantula is the type to dump the remains OUTSIDE of their burrow otherwise you'll be looking at a smell that will make your eyes water.