Feeding earthworms to Ts

[Kirk]

Yes, I thought that was the general consensus.

I'm reminded of Mark Twain's statement, "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect."

 

[Mr. Gone]

I'm reminded of Mark Twain's statement, "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect."

Something I live by:clap:

 

[Kirk]

Sounds like good reasoning to me, but I thought Ts were opportunistic carnivores that preyed on whatever they could overpower, and in the other forum I'm referencing, earthworms seemed as though they were considered some sort of super-food for Ts. I'm highly skeptical of all this, and to be honest, I was shocked that it seemed to be so accepted.

If one wants their tarantulas munching on a dirt-filled earthworm, go for it. I highly doubt they encounter them in the wild, unless it's after a good rain when worms have to vacate water-saturated soil. And in such a situation, a tarantula is probably in no mood to eat.

 

[Exo]

Obligate carnivores and herbivores typically stay within fairly narrow ranges for diets. Until someone shows otherwise, I'll stick with what is probably the most common diet among these carnivores: insects.

But consider the diversity of insects in the wild, you can't possibly believe that Ts eat the same type of prey item every time, can you?

 

[JimM]

Obligate carnivores and herbivores typically stay within fairly narrow ranges for diets. Until someone shows otherwise, I'll stick with what is probably the most common diet among these carnivores: insects.

I'd have to respectfully disagree with that blanket statement Kirk, especially having worked with and studied varanids for so many years. As an example, V. albigularis commonly eats pit vipers and other snakes, lizards, land snails, bird eggs, insects, small mammals, carrion...you name it.

Generally we've arrived at a consensus through witnessing abnormalities or illness resulting from poor husbandry practices, often enough lazy feeding practices.

I believe the question with regard to theraphosids would be (various annelids aside) - does a single insect species provide enough of all necessary nutrients over the lifespan of the spider? Are the various species of insect we feed so similar in nutritional value as to render such a query moot?

I can tell that with most other genera that I've worked with, feeding a single type of food item absolutely will not do, and at the very least vitamin supplements are in order to prevent deficiencies when only a single food item is generally available.

What "success" is when keeping a given species is often not manifest until the animal goes toes up. Just to plays devils advocate here, if a someone's smithi looks great on a diet of crickets for 10 years, then passes...was this a success? Perhaps with a few roaches thrown in here and there it would have seen it's 25th birthday.

Just throwing that out there, and I realize I strayed from the earthworm question, which I agree is not such a great idea.

Again this might all be moot with tarantulas. For all I know a single food item will yield health and long life for every T out there.

Cheers
Jim

 

[Kirk]

But consider the diversity of insects in the wild, you can't possibly believe that Ts eat the same type of prey item every time, can you?

I never alluded to such. If you notice, I referred to a diet of 'insects.' That's a pretty big menu!

 

[Kirk]

I'd have to respectfully disagree with that blanket statement Kirk, especially having worked with and studied varanids for so many years. As an example, V. albigularis commonly eats pit vipers and other snakes, lizards, land snails, bird eggs, insects, small mammals, carrion...you name it.

I didn't present a universal statement. I was careful to say "Obligate carnivores and herbivores typically stay within fairly narrow ranges for diets." I have no doubt that if a greater variety of items are obtainable that an animal might be prone to diverge.

Generally we've arrived at a consensus through witnessing abnormalities or illness resulting from poor husbandry practices, often enough lazy feeding practices.

I believe the question with regard to theraphosids would be (various annelids aside) - does a single insect species provide enough of all necessary nutrients over the lifespan of the spider? Are the various species of insect we feed so similar in nutritional value as to render such a query moot?

I can tell that with most other genera that I've worked with, feeding a single type of food item absolutely will not do, and at the very least vitamin supplements are in order to prevent deficiencies when only a single food item is generally available.

What effects from a mono-diet have you witnessed?

What "success" is when keeping a given species is often not manifest until the animal goes toes up. Just to plays devils advocate here, if a someone's smithi looks great on a diet of crickets for 10 years, then passes...was this a success? Perhaps with a few roaches thrown in here and there it would have seen it's 25th birthday.

Just throwing that out there, and I realize I strayed from the earthworm question, which I agree is not such a great idea.

Again this might all be moot with tarantulas. For all I know a single food item will yield health and long life for every T out there.

No disagreement. All I'm asking for are the empirical data that substantiates the requirement.

 

[Stan Schultz]

I recently read a thread on another forum about feeding earthworms to Ts, but in the Tarantula keepers guide it says that worms are full of pesticides and therefore not safe. What do you guys think?

Keep in mind that, when writing a guidebook for general consumption, the author(s) must take a rather conservative approach to recommendations. The last thing we wish to be blamed for is causing the death of someone's beloved, expensive pet. It's bad PR to say the least.

Having said that, there are lots of people who have tried feeding earthworms/night crawlers to their tarantulas and the reports of trouble are noticeably lacking. This may be because it really isn't a problem, or because these people are really lucky, or because they're really selective in where they get them, or because they have failed to make the connection between the worms and the tarantula's death, or because they've failed to report their loss. If you do so, you take your chances and accept your losses, if any.

Also, you need to speak with the greens keepers of golf courses. You will find out that most golf courses are so close to being chemical waste dumps (because of the insecticides, weed killers, fungicides, and fertilizers used) that the only reason most aren't closed as public hazards is that the people who do the proclaiming and the closing also want to play golf on them!

Furthermore, wild tarantulas are born in dirt, grow up in dirt, live their entire lives in dirt, die in dirt, dig with their mouth parts in dirt, eat insects that live in dirt, clean dirt from their body surfaces, etc. I'm a bit dubious that the dirt in a worm's gut would have much effect on a tarantula, especially since it's all filtered out by the tarantula's palate plate while feeding anyway. What may be dissolved in that dirt, however, may be a different story.

There are other foods available for tarantulas. Have you considered mealworms, for instance?

Many enthusiasts report that they can get their tarantulas to eat dead food. How about frozen pinky mice? You might even try them on freshly frozen, dead crickets.

Do you live near a wildlife conservation area where pesticides aren't normally used, and that's far enough away from neighborhoods that over-spray wouldn't be a problem? A provincial (in Canada), state, or county park, perhaps? During the warmer months, a battery powered fluorescent lamp (e.g., camping lantern) and a white bed sheet should get you all the wild, pesticide free insects you need with just one or two evening hours a month. Who knows? You may even decide to start a bug collection as a result!

Random musings on tarantulas' diets. Whoda thunk we'd resort to this on a warm, summer evening?

 

[Drachenjager]

I'm reminded of Mark Twain's statement, "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect."

i found myself on the side of the majority in how the earth and its inhabitants got here, then reflected on it and changed my mind.

 

[Chaika]

No disagreement. All I'm asking for are the empirical data that substantiates the requirement.

Spoken like a true scientist! :clap: I wouldn't mind seeing some data either

 

[ksac3]

The person i knew that fed earthworms fed it in a food dish to contain the mess.
He also said the reason he fed it worms is that it was a big bird eater that refused crickets and his wife daid no roaches in the house.
as far as the wild collected worms , the sandworms and bloodworms are the ones i know for a fact were collected from the bay in Maine and Canada.(both marine worms).
the owner of the bait shop should know if it was bred or picked.

 

[Kirk]

The person i knew that fed earthworms fed it in a food dish to contain the mess.
He also said the reason he fed it worms is that it was a big bird eater that refused crickets and his wife daid no roaches in the house.
as far as the wild collected worms , the sandworms and bloodworms are the ones i know for a fact were collected from the bay in Maine and Canada.(both marine worms).
the owner of the bait shop should know if it was bred or picked.

Sand worms and blood worms are marine segmented worms, which means their bodies are going to contain a salt content equivalent to the sea water they're in. I don't know if the salt content would adversely affect a tarantula, but it seems a bit far fetched to go to the extreme of feeding them such items when crickets aren't difficult to obtain.

I assume you know that sand worms have a pair of very sharp, pincher-like jaws that could easily puncture a tarantula?

 

[ksac3]

sandworms and bloodworms are definitely not tarantula food but i know for a fact those 2 species are salt water dwelling worms that are picked, not farmed.
Earthworms mostly are farmed.
the worm supplier should know.
also i know that people are doing research on the properties of bloodworm fangs for some reason involving the composition-makeup of them.(?)
the only reason he used nightcrawlers is that the T refused other food.

 

[Kirk]

sandworms and bloodworms are definitely not tarantula food but i know for a fact those 2 species are salt water dwelling worms that are picked, not farmed.
Earthworms mostly are farmed.
the worm supplier should know.
also i know that people are doing research on the properties of bloodworm fangs for some reason involving the composition-makeup of them.(?)
the only reason he used nightcrawlers is that the T refused other food.

I'm rather familiar with sand worms and blood worms (polychaetes), as I've been a polychaete systematist for over 30 years.

 

[ZergFront]

I have no interest in feeding my spiders earthworms - afterall, yeah all they eat is soil debri like dead leaves whereas my feeder crickets get fresh greens, fruit, rice and dry dog food. Plus, I've read worms have very absorbant skin and who knows what dirt they've been crawling through. If I want my tarantulas to have variety, I'll get some something besides crickets like mealworms, superworms, soldier grubs, silkworms, etc.

I guess tarantulas are more likely to eat them than true spiders because I recall when I was a kid trying to feed house spiders or wolf spiders small earth worms and they were never interested in them. :?

 

[Kirk]

I guess tarantulas are more likely to eat them than true spiders because I recall when I was a kid trying to feed house spiders or wolf spiders small earth worms and they were never interested in them. :?

Take a look at the link I have in my post #14 above, Figure 1. Pretty amusing.